The cops are at my door!

[eric]

The other way around as well - officer's should show respect to citizens from the beginning as well.

This has mostly been my experience, except for some beach towns here, some small towns..... and Atlanta, GA. Atlanta has, from my experience, the least respectful officers of anywhere I've been.

Oddly enough, some of the friendliest I've met were in Lebanon. Though I don't recommend visiting (theres just something about seeing tanks in the streets of major cities that bothers me).

I agree wholeheartedly, but we have to understand that police officers have what is called "Legitimate Power," which in psychology means they are bestowed a presence of authority or knowledge that is universally accepted, and should be recognized by all law-abiding civilians. The intention of most officers is to keep everyone safe. They are in charge of any situation involving unlawful actions when they are present (as I've mentioned many times before, so long as their actions are lawful and constitutional) within their jurisdiction. If they ask you to sit down, out of respect, you should sit down. If they ask you to stop talking, out of respect, you should stop talking. If they ask you to do anything that would incriminate you, you should let them know you are aware of your rights and will not comply without yout attorney present. Of course it is up to you (and perhaps your lawyer) to assess whether they are being condescending out of arrogance (disrespect) or out of necessity (duty), but they should be given respect either way. When all is said and done, you can always press charges if you feel your rights have been violated, and remember, Miranda Rights and the Fifth Amendment apply to every American, not only those under arrest.

I'd be interested to hear an example of a police officer disrespecting you, SLD181.

 

[eric]

My Brother,

I completely agree with you regarding Chicago's policy. I think it is the WRONG direction and unconstitutional. Judge, jury and executioner EXACTLY. I would not feel comfortable working for any agency that gives such policy/powers to officers.

I do not take your stance as being anti-police, I take it as being an informed citizen.

I am also proud FOP member and even prouder Past Master AF&AM, 32nd Scottish Rite and High Noble in the Shrine.

Amen, brother. As I said, and you just proved, you're a good man and a good officer. God bless you and yours.

Time to break open the six-pack, it's Saturday night, boys and girls!

Have a good, safe weekend everyone. I'm out of here.

 

[chrisl317]

When all is said and done, you can always press charges if you feel your rights have been violated, and remember, Miranda Rights and the Fifth Amendment apply to every American, not only those under arrest.

There is no such thing as "Miranda Rights". It is "Miranda Warning".

 

[SLDS181]

I agree wholeheartedly, but we have to understand that police officers have what is called "Legitimate Power," which in psychology means they are bestowed a presence of authority or knowledge that is universally accepted, and should be recognized by all law-abiding civilians.

Whoa there buddy, I'm stopping you right there.

They don't have "power". They have authority in situations of LEGALITY and a gun.

They do NOT have power. That "power" is EXACTLY the issue with problem cops, and I'm damn sure NCChief would agree with me there. They have a job to do, and its to protect me. They do not hold power over me.

If you believe they have power over you, sorry, but thats idiocy.

I'll be breaking up what you said to exemplify my point.

If they ask you to sit down, out of respect, you should sit down.

If they ask with respect... sure.

If they ask you to stop talking, out of respect, you should stop talking.

If they ask with respect, sure.

Of course it is up to you (and perhaps your lawyer) to assess whether they are being condescending out of arrogance (disrespect) or out of necessity (duty)

There is no such thing as being "condescending out of necessity". It is never necessary to be condescending, thats a load of crap.

I'd be interested to hear an example of a police officer disrespecting you, SLD181.

Sure, I'll use Atlanta as my example. So, I'm in Atlanta, its like 9:30, and there isn't a soul out on the streets. A bum asks, "looking for something?", so I say "Yup, a place to eat. Know anything open?" He gets up and says "Sure, theres a diner up the street over there, few blocks up. Hey can I get a smoke?"

As I'm handing a helpful hobo a smoke, a fat ..... with a badge walks up, opens with "Hey, get the f*** out of here" to the bum, then says "Listen boy, if you don't have the f****** balls to tell these pieces of s*** to f*** off, then maybe you should grow a f****** pair."

I ripped into that jackass for a good few minutes, and reported him to his superiors. If you think for a split second he deserved better, than you're no better than any of the idiot cops out there who think a badge gives them special privileges. It doesn't. Trust me.

Hows that for an example?

 

[NCChief]

SLD, I think he is using the term power in the same sense as you view authority. I don't believe he is using it in a "superiority" sense.

I saw the same sort of behavior in an Atlanta Officer once. Very unprofessional. We would (and should) be hung up by the gonads if we treated anyone like that.

 

[NCChief]

I gotta say this. It is very refreshing to have this conversation with intellectuals such as the users here. Normally, you see the cop bashing from uneducated buttholes who don't like cops because they spend a lot of time with us.

You guys have great points of view and upon further review, I don't view most of this as bashing at all. A lot of what is being said is true.

 

[SLDS181]

SLD, I think he is using the term power in the same sense as you view authority. I don't believe he is using it in a "superiority" sense.

Ah - then that I agree with. Its the sense of superiority in cops that can set me off (obviously lol)

I saw the same sort of behavior in an Atlanta Officer once. Very unprofessional. We would (and should) be hung up by the gonads if we treated anyone like that.

I was shocked when he opened up with that statement to me! And it wasn't a new guy either (he was mid-40's my guess, and from my experience, its the younger guys with the attitude problem, most of the more experienced officers are even tempered). Thankfully, I haven't met many quite as obviously idiotic as the ones I met in Atlanta.

 

[eric]

There is no such thing as "Miranda Rights". It is "Miranda Warning".

Actually, there are Miranda Rights.

They're stated clearly in the Miranda Warning.

 

[eric]

Whoa there buddy, I'm stopping you right there.
They don't have "power". They have authority in situations of LEGALITY and a gun.

They do NOT have power. That "power" is EXACTLY the issue with problem cops, and I'm damn sure NCChief would agree with me there. They have a job to do, and its to protect me. They do not hold power over me.

If you believe they have power over you, sorry, but thats idiocy.

Please re-read what I said. If you understood the term "Legitimate Power" you'd know exactly what I was talking about. You're saying I'm wrong, and then saying exactly what I said to disprove me... Doesn't make any sense.

If they ask with respect... sure.

Failure to comply... It's very unlikely that a police officer would not treat you with respect unless he had reason not to. For instance... failure to comply.
"No person shall fail to comply with any lawful order or direction of any police officer invested with authority to direct, control, or regulate traffic." *

If they ask with respect, sure.

...

There is no such thing as being "condescending out of necessity". It is never necessary to be condescending, thats a load of crap.

I'll list a few examples:
--Lay down on the ground and put your hands behind your back. (condascending out of necessity).
--"Listen boy, if you don't have the f****** balls to tell these pieces of s*** to f*** off, then maybe you should grow a f****** pair." (condascending without necessity).

I ripped into that jackass for a good few minutes, and reported him to his superiors. If you think for a split second he deserved better, than you're no better than any of the idiot cops out there who think a badge gives them special privileges. It doesn't. Trust me.

That's pretty rough. Though I don't think that's an abuse of power so much as that officer was just a flat-out a**hole. He probably would have said the same thing if he was off duty. Hell, he probably would have said the same thing were he not even an officer of the law. Again... this does not reflect on the police force, it reflects on the individual. He should be ashamed of himself... Just a horrible thing to say.

* http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.331
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/28/00622.htm

 

[SLDS181]

Please re-read what I said. If you understood the term "Legitimate Power" you'd know exactly what I was talking about. You're saying I'm wrong, and then saying exactly what I said to disprove me... Doesn't make any sense.

I disagree with your choice of words, if you read what NCChief and I discussed.

Failure to comply... It's very unlikely that a police officer would not treat you with respect unless he had reason not to. For instance... failure to comply.

If I'm doing nothing wrong, then I'm not subject to orders by cops.

And "unlikely" isn't the same as all the time.

"No person shall fail to comply with any lawful order or direction of any police officer invested with authority to direct, control, or regulate traffic." *

..... traffic.

Not my choice of sitting or speaking. An officer has absolutely zero authority over my right to speak.

I'll list a few examples:
--Lay down on the ground and put your hands behind your back. (condascending out of necessity).

... thats not condascending.

Condascending is patronizing with the air of superiority.

That's pretty rough. Though I don't think that's an abuse of power so much as that officer was just a flat-out a**hole. He probably would have said the same thing if he was off duty. Hell, he probably would have said the same thing were he not even an officer of the law. Again... this does not reflect on the police force, it reflects on the individual.

I didn't say it was an example of an abuse of power, you asked for an example of an officer being disrespectful to me. I think that was a damn good example.

And if you bothered to read a single post of mine, then you would see that I'm not a cop basher, so stop suggesting I was applying an experience with one tool to an entire force, or police in general. Thats precisely the kind of attitude I've repeatedly commented against.

 

[chrisl317]

Listen to the rebuttal of the Officer toward the bottom of this page.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/law-e-cigarette/31615-cops-my-door-2.html

 

[Superstargoddess]

Yup. An assailant is an assailant. Just because they are mentally handicapped doesn't mean they won't hurt or kill you.

One of my best friends was shot in the head by a mentally handicapped person who's family deemed him harmless. He was so harmless, 7 hours later, Chief Hathaway was pronounced dead.

Sorry to hear about your friend, that makes me sad. It's true though, even if someone is mentally handicapped, it doesn't mean that they are a harmless little puppy. I don't mean to be politically incorrect here, but I think that everyone has heard of the phrase "...... strength". Once again, no offense to the mentally handicapped, but I know that people have probably heard that phrase at least a few times in their lifetimes.

SLDS181- Even if I was deaf and I saw a police officer "yelling" at me, which you would be able to tell by how their mouth was moving, I'd still be inclined to put my hands in the air. And they say that deaf people have other heightened senses so you never know, if they were getting yelled at, they made be able to feel the voice waves. Just speculation here, but whatever. And even a deaf person could be dangerous, hell a six year old could shoot you and kill you.

Even then, it goes back to the fact that the police don't know who they are always dealing with. Unless we want to make mentally handicapped people, deaf people, and blind people walk around with signs around their necks saying "I am deaf" and etc, then I don't think that we should even be talking about this. And I am sure that having them wear signs like that would infringe on their rights somehow.

Anyway, are we done fighting and being disrespectful in here? Looks like we are, so let's all kiss and make up now.

 

[SLDS181]

SLDS181- Even if I was deaf and I saw a police officer "yelling" at me, which you would be able to tell by how their mouth was moving, I'd still be inclined to put my hands in the air. And they say that deaf people have other heightened senses so you never know, if they were getting yelled at, they made be able to feel the voice waves. Just speculation here, but whatever. And even a deaf person could be dangerous, hell a six year old could shoot you and kill you.

Noone said someone who is deaf isn't dangerous. The point is, not responding does not mean they are dangerous, cops have to pay attention.

(Also, he wasn't looking at the cop, so no, he could not see his mouth moving. This was a detail from the articles about that particular incident, and the complaints filed by this man's family)

Even then, it goes back to the fact that the police don't know who they are always dealing with. Unless we want to make mentally handicapped people, deaf people, and blind people walk around with signs around their necks saying "I am deaf" and etc, then I don't think that we should even be talking about this. And I am sure that having them wear signs like that would infringe on their rights somehow.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that anyone wears a sign

The point is, cops have to pay attention. When they don't, people get hurt. They have dangerous weapons, and they have to be used correctly. Far too often, they aren't, and when it does its almost always because the cop just wasn't doing his job very well. If an office clerk doesn't do his job very well, the worst thing that happens is someone gets a paper cut from having to re-file. If a cop doesn't do his job well, someone could die.

Anyway, are we done fighting and being disrespectful in here? Looks like we are, so let's all kiss and make up now.

I think everyone was being very respectful.

 

[Superstargoddess]

Noone said someone who is deaf isn't dangerous. The point is, not responding does not mean they are dangerous, cops have to pay attention.

(Also, he wasn't looking at the cop, so no, he could not see his mouth moving. This was a detail from the articles about that particular incident, and the complaints filed by this man's family)



I don't think anyone is suggesting that anyone wears a sign

The point is, cops have to pay attention. When they don't, people get hurt. They have dangerous weapons, and they have to be used correctly. Far too often, they aren't, and when it does its almost always because the cop just wasn't doing his job very well. If an office clerk doesn't do his job very well, the worst thing that happens is someone gets a paper cut from having to re-file. If a cop doesn't do his job well, someone could die.



I think everyone was being very respectful.

All good points that you bring up. I know that cops have to pay attention, but people are afterall human, so you never know what they are doing and for what reason. An officer may be able to be observant, but he is still not a mind reader. Perhaps they should get more training for identifying disabled people and dealing with them. I'm not sure what percentage of the population falls under the deaf/mentally handicapped category, but it would be something for them to consider worth looking into.

I think that everyone is being respectful now, but there have been some things in this thread that just make me cringe.

 

[NCChief]

It's all good! I think that we all want the same things and agree that things aren't perfect with any profession. This thread just happens to be about mine

In the vaping world, Cops are not the enemy (vaping right now)! I pray that does not change. We can't pick and choose the laws that we enforce.

 

[SLDS181]

It's all good! I think that we all want the same things and agree that things aren't perfect with any profession. This thread just happens to be about mine

Absolutely! And I'm the first to admit, I'm a complete jerk - I hold people to very high standards (not just cops, everyone )

In the vaping world, Cops are not the enemy (vaping right now)! I pray that does not change. We can't pick and choose the laws that we enforce.

Very true!

(Though I do wish some cops actually knew the laws they were trying to enforce.... I was dropping a katana off at a dojo for a friend, and I was pulled over for a brake light being out that wasn't a brake light. He tried to arrest me for possession of a deadly weapon! Thankfully I knew his sergeant, so I didn't have to lose a night dealing with that silliness.)

 

[Superstargoddess]

Absolutely! And I'm the first to admit, I'm a complete jerk - I hold people to very high standards (not just cops, everyone )



Very true!

(Though I do wish some cops actually knew the laws they were trying to enforce.... I was dropping a katana off at a dojo for a friend, and I was pulled over for a brake light being out that wasn't a brake light. He tried to arrest me for possession of a deadly weapon! Thankfully I knew his sergeant, so I didn't have to lose a night dealing with that silliness.)

Well yeah, I think if you have something like a Katana, you you have it stored in your trunk right? I know that in most places you can't even carry a knife with a blade over so many inches.

I collect interesting decorative axes and I know that I tried to hide those bad boys in my car as well as I could when I was moving.

 

[killdozerd11]

Some cops are great people and i consider them friends

Some cops that i have met would not piss on if they were on fire.

If a cop shoots someone they only have to say the magic words
I WAS IN FEAR FOR MY LIFE

I don't see that working for the officer that shot a suspect several times in the back when he was laying on the ground ... (but i did)

I thought i heard someone calling for help.
I thought i smelled marijuana.
The brake light was out
The tail light was out

Cops don't need a warrant they just need probable cause >>
To stop you
To search you car
Not to mention search your house

If they find something illegal major or minor
Whether you know it's illegal or not if you knew it was there or not
You just won the lottery

If they don't find anything it gets tossed out
If you make a stink about it the cop might get a reprimand
If you have the money to sue over it the cop has a free lawyer to defend
him
good luck with that

DO NOT EVER QUESTION A COPS AUTHORITY
That pisses them off and you will be arrested for one of many trump up charges.
Failure to obey an officer.
Disturbing the peace.
And other laws that have to have no evidence to charge you with

And if you get hurt during your arrest you are resisting another charge

Guilty or not the cop does not have to prove anything just give his word
and cops don't lie now do they

If they can't prove it they can always drop the charges

But you were still arrested and charged with a crime that goes on your record guilty or not

Then there's being processed at the jail . have fun with that !!
Then if you have money enough or have somone who does you can post
bail and be released

>>FYI you don't get that money back <<<<

Even if they drop the charges or you are found innocent of the crime in question

And the cop is out nothing ...OOPS I made a mistake i'm sorry no hard feelings

Do not forget the court cost that you have to pay guilty or not
just to add insult to injury

Oh a by the way if you can't bail out and you go to stay in jail
If you lose income your house or apartment
Even you job because of being in jail
THOUGH S*** Guilty or not/ The charges dropped or not

The cop is not going to lose any sleep over you problems

And i am not saying all cops are bad or injust i,m just telling you what i know

And by way the some cops i have known are the biggest liars and thieves
That i have ever met. not mention bad shots some can't miss fast enough

 

[SLDS181]

Well yeah, I think if you have something like a Katana, you you have it stored in your trunk right? I know that in most places you can't even carry a knife with a blade over so many inches.

Not in NJ - technically I could walk around with it on my back.

It was in my backseat, and he didn't know any better. He only annoyed me by pretending he knew for a fact it was illegal, and I was only able to get him to listen to reason when he realized I knew someone higher up than him (who, btw, told him that it wasn't illegal.)

 

[killdozerd11]

By the way some of you like to do personal attack in the forum>..don't
you want to attack me send me a pm