The Diketone Debate: Which Position Do you Take?

[Tangaroav]

I found a recipe in the DIY/recipes forum that seems verrrrry interesting; it's a recipe for "blueberry custard" but it uses Capella's Vanilla Custard v2, which has no diketones. I had to modify it slightly, since a couple of the ingredients, I have by a different mfr, but I gotta say , this stuff smells AMAZING. I've been heat-steeping it, and the smell drifts out of the bottle, and it's positively yummy smelling; I can't wait to try it!

Andria

'' Capella's Vanilla Custard v2, has no diketones. '' That is very useful information for DIY. Thank you.

 

[twgbonehead]

I voted for "Should be mandatory" but that was just the closest selection. I really don't think it should be mandatory (and the other selections were pretty damned feeble - talk about a rigged survey!!!)

I think that vendors should state whether their liquid has diketones or not. If they state that it doesn't it should be mandatory that it doesn't, and should be tested by the vendor.

If a vendor doesn't want to claim that the liquid is diketone-free, they should be allowed to sell it without any restrictions. Folks who want to avoid diketones will avoid the vendor.

Please do not use these survey results for anything. This is not a scientific survey as it is worded in a way that forces the result. Not science.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I voted for "Should be mandatory" but that was just the closest selection. I really don't think it should be mandatory (and the other selections were pretty damned feeble - talk about a rigged survey!!!)

I think that vendors should state whether their liquid has diketones or not. If they state that it doesn't it should be mandatory that it doesn't, and should be tested by the vendor.

If a vendor doesn't want to claim that the liquid is diketone-free, they should be allowed to sell it without any restrictions. Folks who want to avoid diketones will avoid the vendor.

Please do not use these survey results for anything. This is not a scientific survey as it is worded in a way that forces the result. Not science.

No vote is forced, but polls are generally used for generalizations considering no poll will ever poll everyone -- generally speaking of course.

I do understand what you are saying, but it's still worthwhile in my opinion. This was never implied to be scientific.

Not going to get into the intricacies of this issue in the OP, though it is wrought with many, but I want to glean as much as I can from votes for specific stances. I hope to get votes from as many posters as possible. I will also run this poll on several other forums to get as much of a picture as possible. So with regard to the inhalation of diketones in eliquid, speak your mind.

If this thread actually gets posts, please, lets keep to the issues. Let's not flame others with different opinions. No attacking vendors. No attacking posters. Only talk about specific vendors that use it if you have proof that they use it.

Vote at the top of the page.​

If you don't feel your position was included, don't vote or find the one that best fits it. If you choose not to vote, but have a position that you want to discuss, state it.

It would've been more thorough to have something like "none of the above" as an option (considering I can't conceive of every stance), but it's water under the bridge at this point.

 

[Mia11]

Do we know if they test all of their eliquids? They list some naturally extracted tobacco flavors and Diacetyl is a "natural component of tobacco" as reported by the National Institute of Health.... 2,3-Butanedione (Diacetyl) M940009 - NTP

This is a clear warning below each description of the NET offerings. Clear enough to make an informed personal choice.

WARNING: NATURALLY EXTRACTED TOBACCO FLAVORS HAVE NOT BEEN TESTED BY THE FDA AND ARE NOT APPROVED FOR CONSUMPTION BY THE FDA. NATURALLY EXTRACTED TOBACCO FLAVORS MAY CONTAIN TOBACCO-SPECIFIC NITROSAMINES, OR OTHER CHEMICALS RELATED TO TOBACCO THAT CARRY OVER IN THE EXTRACTION PROCESS. IT IS GENERALLY BELIEVED THAT LEVELS OF THESE MATERIALS WOULD BE FAR LESS THAN THOSE FOUND IN TRADITIONAL TOBACCO CIGARETTES.

 

[Stosh]

This is a clear warning below each description of the NET offerings. Clear enough to make an informed personal choice.

WARNING: NATURALLY EXTRACTED TOBACCO FLAVORS HAVE NOT BEEN TESTED BY THE FDA AND ARE NOT APPROVED FOR CONSUMPTION BY THE FDA. NATURALLY EXTRACTED TOBACCO FLAVORS MAY CONTAIN TOBACCO-SPECIFIC NITROSAMINES, OR OTHER CHEMICALS RELATED TO TOBACCO THAT CARRY OVER IN THE EXTRACTION PROCESS. IT IS GENERALLY BELIEVED THAT LEVELS OF THESE MATERIALS WOULD BE FAR LESS THAN THOSE FOUND IN TRADITIONAL TOBACCO CIGARETTES.

Cool, good to know as I use my own naturally extracted tobaccos and coffees, missed it looking at their flavors.
I was curious if they had tested and the Diacetyl was below delectable levels, would be the best of both worlds.

 

[Mazinny]

Cool, good to know as I use my own naturally extracted tobaccos and coffees, missed it looking at their flavors.
I was curious if they had tested and the Diacetyl was below delectable levels, would be the best of both worlds.

The first thing they did was to test all the flavors and changed them if they contained diketones. The next step was to test the finished juice and post the lab results on the product description page. They are in the process of doing this, and i was told that they will get to the NET's soon. They wanted to start with the juices that would be seen as more likely to contain diketones.

 

[AndriaD]

Capella's Vanilla Custard v2, which has no diketones. That very useful information for DIY. Thank you.

Yeah, I saw a thread earlier in the week about this flavor tasting "chemical," but I don't taste that; it seems fine to me. Granted, it hasn't been that long since I quit smoking, so my tastebuds may still be somewhat unreliable -- my nose still works fine, even better than it did, and that v2 vanilla custard smells GREAT.

Andria

 

[Tangaroav]

If you like it and they let you keep it (which I think they should do), it will be easy for you to use the Savage Bean as a flavoring for other mixes of your own to bring the nic level down, since you DIY. So that's good!
I

Well, you were right, The vapor bar are shipping the Immortal Cinn and told me to keep the Savage bean. So I was happy to test it as is, 24mg/ml. It is way too strong of a throat it for me at this nicotine level. Unsteeped the taste was really muted. I must also say that as with most 'premium' e-liquid I have tried, the packaging is impressive as 18.50$ for a 30ml bottle should be.

I will store it to steep for a couple of weeks and use it mixed to my preferred 6mg/ml in my DIY.

 

[Racehorse]

Well, I guess I'm back to asking for an actual test result.


(although I do think "most" of it is fine, but then there are the things that aren't, which I really don't want to touch with a 10 foot pole, and i need to be able to know what those things are.)

This, after finding out that those aspire naughty clearos inside chamber may be chrome over brass (and the chrome chips off which some people thought was rust) and not stainless steel as was claimed in their manual.


Let's see what happens, but there is a topic on that here on ECF now......... and then somebody asked about the composition of the coils in august and still has received no reply on their own product forum.

So, I'm back to "show me an actual test result" because I really don't feel I can trust everyone in this industry, whether it is hardware or ejuice......and because obviously, the word DISCLOSURE means different things to different people. .

corner-cutters and dishonest will ruin it for everyone else. And then, sometimes there are the ignorant too....and while I do feel their pain, I can't accept getting that for my $$ or my health.

 

[ST Dog]

Would you recommend to your loved ones to ride a motorcycle without helmets ?
Recommending avoidable risks to your loved ones is irresponsible is it not ?

Recommend? probably not. But if able to make an informed decision, and they choose not to?
I'm not going to give them a lot of grief over it.

I never wore a helmet on a bicycle, rarely on a motorcycle, and never on an ATV.

 

[AndriaD]

Recommend? probably not. But if able to make an informed decision, and they choose not to?
I'm not going to give them a lot of grief over it.

I never wore a helmet on a bicycle, rarely on a motorcycle, and never on an ATV.

Motorcycle without a helmet is not only against the law, it's really Really REALLY stupid! If my husband hadn't been wearing his helmet when he crashed his bike, he'd have broken more than his toes... and I'd have had to finish raising our son by myself. Our son was only about 14 then, so that would have been a major tragedy not just for me, but for our son to lose his dad just when he was trying to learn how to become a man.

And my husband ranted about the helmet law to no end... till he came down on that very hard head, and that helmet saved his life.

Look Twice
Save a Life
AND WEAR YOUR HELMET!!!

Andria

 

[Tangaroav]

Recommend? probably not. But if able to make an informed decision, and they choose not to?
I'm not going to give them a lot of grief over it.

I never wore a helmet on a bicycle, rarely on a motorcycle, and never on an ATV.

I have been riding motorcycle for over 45 years, at the moment a Speed triple and a VFR, and presently lurking at the new Polaris slingshot
Whenever I take a passenger, it is mandatory that they wear an helmet, even when in Florida.

I feel that if one chooses not to wear an helmet, society should not be held accountable for any medical care resulting from an AVOIDABLE injury to the head. The helmets protects the taxpayers from AVOIDABLE risks and expensive medical care all to often paid by the non riding public. Sadly for tax payers, it is not the case presently.

 

[ST Dog]

Motorcycle without a helmet is not only against the law

Not in every state. Only 20 states require it for all. 2 have no law on helmets. The rest are age based, basically minors are required (usually 17, but some times 20) Motorcycle Helmet Laws | State-by-State Guide - Consumer Reports News

Bicycle/ATV helmet laws are similar, generally limited to minors.

I haven't been on a motorcycle since I've had a family. That would be be a factor in deciding.
But it should still be a personal choice.

I'm heading to Africa (another week or so) to help with the fight against Ebola. That's an avoidable risk too, but again I choose to take it, fully aware of the risks.

I feel that if one chooses not to wear an helmet, society should not be held accountable for any medical care resulting from an AVOIDABLE injury to the head. The helmets protects the taxpayers from AVOIDABLE risks and expensive medical care all to often paid by the non riding public. Sadly for tax payers, it is not the case presently.

I don't agree with society, through governemnt coercion, pays either.
Be it an injury from riding w/o a helmet, bungee jumping, smoking, or poor diet.

 

[Tangaroav]

The fight against Ebola is not really in the same game let alone the same league as motorcycling .

I spent 5 years in the Republic of Guinée where Ebola is at its worst..... I wish you success in your mission.

 

[ST Dog]

The fight against Ebola is not really in the same game let alone the same league as motorcycling .

No doubt, but it's still an avoidable risk that I choose to take while many do not.
Out of 30+ qualified people asked (all have been to Iraq and/or Afghanistan), I was the only one that volunteered.

Many are highly risk averse, but even those who are not decide which risks we are willing to take.

 

[Tangaroav]

For aware consumers avoiding Diketones in e-liquids should be an easy decision and a no-brainer. From the response we see, IMO, soon, serious vendors will no longer be selling diketones infested e-liquids.

As this becomes an important marketing policy for the 'clean' e-liquid vendors, the 'dirty' vendors will either comply or disappear.

 

[Mr.Mann]

For aware consumers avoiding Diketones in e-liquids should be an easy decision and a no-brainer. From the response we see, IMO, soon, serious vendors will no longer be selling diketones infested e-liquids.

As this becomes an important marketing policy for the 'clean' e-liquid vendors, the 'dirty' vendors will either comply or disappear.

I doubt the ones that sell diketone laden liquids will disappear; if anything, the consumer base (along with vendors) will likely just section itself off and be comprised of those that don't want/use it, those that don't mind vaping/producing it in tiny percentages, and those that actually prefer vaping/mixing with it. Of course, that is all under the assumption that the science stays 'just' science and there is never actual publicized problems arising from the usage of it, in which case, if it is, then all of this will be a moot point. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

 

[AndriaD]

I doubt the ones that sell diketone laden liquids will disappear; if anything, the consumer base (along with vendors) will likely just section itself off and be comprised of those that don't want/use it, those that don't mind vaping/producing it in tiny percentages, and those that actually prefer vaping/mixing with it. Of course, that is all under the assumption that the science stays 'just' science and there is never actual publicized problems arising from the usage of it, in which case, if it is, then all of this will be a moot point. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

Yeah, until there are commercials like the cancer lady, "don't vape diketones -- I did and now I'm dead of popcorn lung" sort of thing. All the evil things they've been saying about smoking for decades, they'll just rewrite for different aspects of vaping. Of course even that won't stop those who are determined to kill themselves, just like the cancer lady never stopped me from going out for a smoke. Seeing my own father dying of cancer in the ICU didn't stop me; I was in the sole place on the hospital grounds where smoking was permitted, in between 10 min visits.

People cannot be forced to be wise or healthy; it's just not in human nature -- force makes most of us react like drunken 16 yr olds.

Andria

 

[MikenGA]

Howdy Mr Mann,
Long time no see...but you've clearly been 'busy' with those 14000+ posts, a GROWING KIDDO and your art!

I voted #1, not to be extreme, but if Dr. Farsalinos says lung damage occurs immediately in the presence of these things, that's good enough for me. We stopped smoking finally, and better health is an expected result. I would really like my e-liquids to be safe, regardless of where they come from.

Anywhoo, I mostly DIY these days, and most of my concoctions are quite simple, so I think I'm OK.

Glad to see you're still around!

 

[Tangaroav]

The fight against Ebola is not really in the same game let alone the same league as motorcycling .

I spent 5 years in the Republic of Guinée where Ebola is at its worst..... I wish you success in your mission.

Edit: To be clear, those 5 years were back in the 70's. Ebola, Aids were not around then. Malaria was the problem, but rarely deadly.