The Echo Thread - Part 2

[billybc96]

Informed by the retail supplier Crop-Duster 901 (below) that I will need to contact Hangsen (the manufacturer) regarding the defect:

You need to contact
Best Electronic Cigarette, Electronic Cigarette Manufacturer, Electronic Cigarette Wholesale. If it was a manufacturer defect it should be covered by them .

So, I wrote to Hangsen via their customer contact link at: Hangsen - The leading electronic cigarette and E-liquid manufacturer. Contact Us

One of my ECHO black 650mah batteries supplied through the U.S. domestic retailer Crop-Duster 901 just blew up and caught on fire while charging in its USB wall charger unit. The internal components of the battery got blown out, ricocheted off my bed, landed by a dresser, then those innards caught fire, spitting fire out both ends of the thing. I tried blowing the flames out, but ended up having to dump a glass of water from the bathroom to put out the flames. Both my upstairs smoke alarms went off. (I'm glad those are working, though I was in the room at the time, thank god.) The carpet got scorched pretty good. I don't think I'll be able to clean up the scorch marks. My wife (we are expecting a baby several months from now) will be seriously upset. The whole incident scared the heck out of me, and I'm really kind of at a loss as to what I should do or even feel about this. The house might've caught on fire if I was not here. What happened? The battery had been in there for quite awhile and was probably already fully charged. I had used the charger previously without any issue in this same manner, so I have no idea what happened, other than obvious catastrophic failure of the battery or the charger, or both. The USB charger and USB wall plug unit both appear intact, though I'm sure as hell not going to test if that one is still working. I've got another (previously has worked fine as well - for a few weeks now), but I am too scared to try using it. I have some pictures of the burnt out ECHO 650mah battery unit and the damage to the floor. The burnt out unit basically ended up melting to the floor carpeting, so I had to pretty much cut it out. I sent a message about the incident to Cropduster901 eCigs, Vaporizers and Supplies customer service. They sent me a message indicating I should contact the manufacturer, Hangsen, regarding the incident and issue. Please let me know if you need the photos, and what exactly I should do next - at least as regards getting a defect refund, or whatever.

I'd also like to know if there is anything you could possibly do at all regarding the permanent carpet damage.

Sincerely,

(E-mail address, phone number and physical mailing address removed for the sake of privacy.)

I have no idea what kind of response I will receive from Hangsen, but I will keep you all posted. My big concern (among several at the moment) is that I obviously now don't know if I can trust my remaining ECHO e-cigarette equipment at all. I still have some older m402 e-cigarette stuff, so I will use that for now, but even that stuff (which I never had any issues with for over 2 years) scares me a bit to recharge. My wife will obviously prefer that I quite all of this stuff completely, but I'm not ready or willing to do that yet. Suggestions?

 

[Errol]

I wanted to do that a while ago but saw that the first way was to give PayPal your bank account number. I backed away very quickly!

PayPal was just one of four or five ways to qualify. Ebay seemed easy enough to qualify. Don't recall the other options.

Errol

 

[Errol]

One of my ECHO black 650mah batteries from Crop-Duster 901 just blew blew up and caught on fire while charging in its USB wall charger unit. The internal components of the battery got blown out, ricocheted off my bed, landed by a dresser, then those innards caught fire, spitting fire out both ends of the thing. I tried blowing the flames out, but ended up having to dump a glass of water from the bathroom to put out the flames. Both my upstairs smoke alarms went off. (I'm glad those are working.) The carpet got scorched pretty good. I don't think I'll be able to clean up the scorch marks. My wife (we are expecting a baby several months from now) will be seriously ....... I sent a message about the incident to Cropduster901 eCigs, Vaporizers and Supplies. The whole incident scared the heck out of me, and I'm really kind of at a loss at to what I should do or even feel about this. Has anyone else had this happen to them? What did happen? The battery had been in there for quite awhile and was probably already fully charged. I had used the charger previously without issue, so I have no idea what happened, other than obvious catastrophic failure of the battery or the charger, or both. The USB charger and USB wall plug unit both appear intact, though I'm sure as hell not going to test if that one is still working. I've got another, but am too scared to try using it. Some pictures of the damage are below:

That happens from time to time though it is very rare, most likely overcharge in your case. About all one can do for full safety is to buy a charging bag to put your charger and battery into when charging to contain the damage should it happen again. Saw some advertised a few day back but can't find the vendor now.

Errol

 

[lulu836]

One of my ECHO black 650mah batteries from Crop-Duster 901 just blew blew up and caught on fire while charging in its USB wall charger unit.

That's scary!!! With one post you have cured me from leaving batts to charge overnight whether in a bag or not.

 

[txtumbleweed]

That's scary!!! With one post you have cured me from leaving batts to charge overnight whether in a bag or not.

Yeah I've been very careless charging batteries over the years and I need to start taking them off the charger when they are finished charging.

 

[billybc96]

I'm not too sure about the LiPO Safety Charging Bags, as they do not seem to be truly purpose built to deal with this issue. The innards of my ECHO battery that exploded came out with quite a bit of force. The bag may help with containing the fire hazard, but not necessarily prevent other impact damage. I just read another thread on the forum relating to these bags. People have very mixed opinions about them, as the charging battery can actually heat up more inside the bag than would normally be the case, possibly leading to an explosion that might not otherwise have happened, and also shortening battery life in the longer term.

Someone else recommended having the battery wall charger plugged into an auto-cutoff timer set to the maximum charge time of the battery, say about 2-3 hours for the latest ECHO 650mah battery. That would definitely help prevent overcharging to the point of exploding, and actually seems like a pretty good idea. Other people charge these types of batteries in their garage, where less damage is likely to be caused on an inflammable concrete floor, but garages can get very hot, are typically not supervised, typically don't have a smoke alarm, and typically have some highly flammable stuff in them you don't want a flying flaming battery to inadvertently impact.

I think the timer idea is a good start, along with other good charging battery monitoring practices, but I think a little something more than that is necessary in order to be more preventive about protecting one's family and home from serious damage. I'm still searching for other useable ideas, so if anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know. I'm starting to settle down a little now, but a few hours ago my wife was in tears with concern over the whole subject matter. I'm glad the first thing she said was, "Thank god you didn't get hurt." But then she saw the unclean-able burnt carpet, thought about the baby we have on the way, and that coming baby's safety, and then that is when she really fell apart.

I really felt extra awful at that point, despite being glad the first thing she thought of was my safety. Our baby's safety, and holding down on unnecessary repair expenses (what with so many necessary ones coming up), those are really important. So for now, no charging of any e-cig batteries (even the tamer m402 ones) without myself constantly present while they are charging. All charging batteries get taken off charge at night when I go to bed, whether fully charged or not. I will see what I can do about putting together some kind of makeshift "bomb blast chamber" sort of covering for charging ECHO batteries, so that if another one ever went off it would at least not damage anything more than itself.

I'm not sure what to do about that. Right now I'm using baking pans, sitting on the carpet, but that isn't exactly a setup that fills me with much confidence. I really need to get some damn fire extinguishers as well, and a fire blanket or two - all of which I should definitely have anyway. Relying on a half empty glass of water in the nearby bathroom was pretty lame. I feel sheepish about the whole thing. This has been playing too much on my mind today. Time to stop typing and go join my wife in bed. Goodnight.

 

[txtumbleweed]

Thanks Billy for letting us know about the situation and sorry it happened to you. You might have saved somone else from having the same experience.

 

[billybc96]

I certainly hope so. I wouldn't want anyone else to go through what I just went through, or worse. The whole subject matter (charging batteries exploding, catching fire) seems to be one that doesn't get much attention. Thankfully, that is hopefully because it just doesn't happen very often. Certainly it doesn't seem to be a common occurrence, but after searching up the issue a bit it seems clear to me that we are talking about a fairly common, uncommon experience (if that statement makes any sense at all). One that neither manufacturers or retail suppliers seem to want to bother mentioning the risks of to anyone. E-cigarette starter kit manuals might only mention not charging a battery in an area with an above average room temperature, or something like that, but without bothering to say anything much about the potential risks involved if the battery is faulty. Obviously they don't want to scare customers off, which is entirely understandable, but also seems to me rather irresponsible as well. (One would think the liability issues would be significant, but maybe they aren't, maybe just because these manufacturers are mainly all operating from overseas?)

So that pretty much leaves the safety awareness issue up to us, the consumers of these devices. I doubt the manufacturer in this case is going to volunteer to pay for replacing my carpet, or that they will suddenly get a fire lit under their .... (no pun intended) to make more reliably safe batteries. Obviously some models of batteries are a bit safer than others, or so it would appear. Personally I think we should look into getting an ECF thread category dedicated to the whole subject of e-cigarette safety. A place where people can report safety issues they have had, of all sorts, so that we can get a better idea of which manufacturers and models are safer, and which are more prone to catastrophic failures like the one I experienced, as well as discuss best safety practices and promote safety products, etc.

I tried to sleep calmly after discussing the issue with my wife tonight, but I'm still too depressed and keyed up about the whole thing to do so right now. So, I figured "what the heck", I'll hit the forums again, and vent a little more. Maybe in a more constructive fashion this time, but still venting, at least in a way. I hope it is not too annoying to other forum members, some of whom must assuredly already be aware of this type of issue and already engage in very safe e-cigarette handling practices. It is kind of funny to me, awhile back I was talking to an interested analog smoker, and during the conversation I mentioned that another benefit in switching to e-cigarettes is that you no longer have to worry about falling asleep with a lit cigarette and burning yourself and your house down.

Yeah, right, the jokes on me, eh? Yes, I will sadly have to tell my friend about this little incident. I suspect he may not be quite as interested in switching over to e-cigarettes anymore. Or perhaps he might just laugh it off as an unlikely event that could have possibly happened with any rechargeable device, such as a cellphone or laptop battery? I have actually heard of that happening, but only through the grapevine. I suspect the safety record regarding such things occurring with other digital devices is probably better than it is compared to our current wide selection of available PV devices, but I could be wrong. I used to work in IT. When I did that sort of thing I never actually directly heard of anything like that happening with any laptops or cellphones I supported, even when I worked for companies employing several hundred people nationwide. I think the e-cigarette manufacturers have a way to go yet if they are going to catch up in safety dependability.

So, we just need to be very wary, and do our best to promote safety from our end as consumers of these electronic devices. I don't really see what else we can do. It certainly isn't the sort of thing I would ever trust Congress to get involved in without making a mess of things, just like most everything else they touch. Okay, I was trying to get less depressed with my venting, but that statement just got me more depressed, so I'm going to stop typing and try to get some sleep again. Wish me luck.

 

[kren]

Yikes, Billy, sorry to hear of your experience. I'm equally as alarmed, as I *have* to charge batteries overnight. I only use the 1300mah Echos, I am in transit or at work in the city for 12 hours a day, and get home at midnight with a depleted battery that must be charged before I wake up and get back on the bus for another day. There literally are no other hours in the day that I can charge.

I've been vaping exclusively since January (yay, me!) and have never had any issues. But I do have one battery that unnerves me, because it continues vaping even after I stop (the light stays lit and I can hear the carto firing after I've removed my mouth). This goes on for several seconds and I'm inclined to simply stop using it altogether.

Please keep us updated on your response from Hangsen.

Is there anywhere else you could charge your batteries in the meantime? At work, maybe?

As for your new baby, I was also a new mom once (11 years ago) and I well remember the complete change of outlook that accompanied this. You'll be experiencing many new fears and you'll look at your home and your world completely differently -- and whatever you experience, realize that your wife will be going through it tenfold -- that's just biological.

Nobody can change what you feel, but remember that the terror will fade in time, just because no human can keep that level of fear for years on end. Your kid(s) will grow and you will learn to tamp down the fears and accept that they must find their way in the big bad world, and that includes random events and yes, events caused by carelessness or mistakes on our part.

It sounds a bit callous, but it's life. We can't possibly shield them from every negative event and while I know you'll baby-proof the home and all that good stuff, there is going to be a certain amount of risk no matter how vigilant you are. It seems unacceptable, but believe me, it's true. I've done stupid stuff; we all have. Don't beat yourself up too much. Just love your family.

 

[fourthrok]

My feeling on the LiPO bags is that some sort of safety measure is better than nothing. I only use it with my rechargeable 18650 and 18350 replaceable batteries (for the eGo T Mod and the 3.7v Gripper) . I also place it in a Pyrex glass casserole dish (high sided, without a lid). A baking pan is usually metal...and metal conducts heat. JMO...but it makes sense that the Pyrex would contain the heat better. The LiPO bag will help contain/suppress the flames and projectiles. The bag may fly...but the pieces should remain reasonably contained. My charger base has a ground on the plug, another safety feature. The LiPO bag has a heavy velcro type closure, and there are air openings on the flap opening sides that do let in a bit of air circulation. I also have it plugged in a room that has plenty of ventilation and place the whole contraption on top of my convection oven...away from any combustible objects.

Having said all that...I still avoid leaving the batteries in their chargers long after they are fully charged. So far I haven't had any trouble charging small eGo/Echo style batteries overnight...putting them in a LiPO bag could be problematic. I've been using some of my batteries for a year now. So far so good. My main concern with batteries is with the replaceable large mAh type like mentioned.

For the smaller eGo type batteries...with wall worts without a ground plug...the timer idea seems like a great plan. I dug mine up so I can use it in future. I usually try to time charging so that I'm always in attendance...but understand that some people are away from home for work for extended periods of time and have to charge overnight. The timer seems like a good option!

 

[Errol]

there are 10 slots left just green and red splash. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...lue-led-5-colors-i-pc-1450-battery-co-op.html

By the time I got qualified they had filled up. Probably just as well as I don't see how a single 14500 battery can provide the output amperage needed for the vaping L-Rider claims one can do with the Robust, ie 1ohm attie. Have to wait and see how it works out for you.

Errol

 

[billybc96]

For greater battery charging safety I ordered a Belkin Conserve Socket F7C009q Energy-Saving Outlet (which has a 1/2 hour, 3 hour and 6 hour power auto-cutoff timer switch on it), plus one Integy Large LiPO Guard Charging Bag INTC22532 (11.7 x 9 x 0.4 inches), and one Cables to Go 1.5 ft 1 to 4 Power Cord Splitter (to run from the Belkin outlet plug power auto-shutoff timer into the LiPO bag for multiple battery charging). All of these items cost only about $5 to $10 a piece on Amazon, which wasn't a bad deal at all with free Super Saver Shipping (Amazon Prime). They are all also fairly compact and portable for use when traveling, at a hotel or wherever else. I will charge my ECHO batteries in that bag with the timer set to shutoff automatically after 3 hours (which is sufficient for the newer ECH 650mAh batteries and chargers). That will be in my kitchen, where everything is tile, both the counter top and floor, but I will also have the bag sitting in a small metal baking pan - for extra protection (though Pyrex sounds like a good option as well) . I think that will be a pretty safe setup that will work well for charging 650mAh ECHO batteries.

I also bought another black 650mAh battery today, from a different supplier, as (interestingly enough) my other supplier is not selling this type of battery anymore - at least not for now, though that supplier does still sell that model size's e-cigarette starter kits. I also got a few extra dual-coil cartomizers, which I like quite a bit - though they are not all that different in overall performance compared to the standard single-coil ECHO cartomizers. The single-coils are milder in throat hit & vapor production, but more e-juice flavor comes through.

Doing all that makes me feel quite a bit better, but I was (and still am) depressed about the damage to my bedroom carpet. Because of that, I used a Dremel tool and several different grinding tips (using scissors would have taken too long) to grind the hard burnt pieces of carpet down to fresh, cleaner carpet, then rewashed the whole area, finishing with several vacuum passes. I even used a bit of bleach to try and lighten some of the areas of carpet darkened by smoke. The results were far from perfect, but now the spot looks more like something of an old spilled drink stain, rather than something scorched with a torch. The area of damage is over a foot long, so it will sadly always be noticeable (until that section of carpet can be replaced), and be a constant reminder of that terrible day when the battery blew up. At least it doesn't look nearly as bad as it used to. I'll see what I can find out about maybe some other methods of getting the smoke stains out better. Lesson learned, eh? (Any suggestions on this would be much appreciated.)

Many people use much larger/longer PV batteries, at least up to 1300mAh, and even larger. I don't think it is practical for those that are charging batteries that size, that take several hours to recharge (overnight?), to be constantly monitoring the charging battery's status and condition. Even if one were to notice that a charging battery was seriously overheating, I for one don't think I would try to grab it and unplug it, as it might go off in my hand - which would be bad news in itself. Some kind of more extensive safety precautions are a must, like using the LiPO charging bags, power plug auto-cutoff timers, and whatever else helps assure greater safety. Having a fire extinguisher and fire blanket handy isn't a bad idea either, and you should probably have those around in your house anyway - especially near your kitchen.

My wife was a little disappointed that I didn't decide to quit using e-cigarettes entirely after this charging battery explosion incident, but I am cutting back on their use, and my last order of e-liquids were all made in the next nicotine level down from what I usually order and use. I've only just recently switched over to using the ECHO from using m402 gear (which I had used fairly satisfactorily for quite a long time), and I find the throat hit increase from just using the higher performance ECHO to be great enough that I really don't need as much nicotine in my e-liquids anymore. So that is something at least, eh? (Yes, obviously I am still quite the nicotine addict. How lame.)

I have yet to hear anything back regarding this incident from the battery manufacturer, Hangsen. I didn't really expect a significant a response back from them, but I am disappointed anyway. I don't expect they will be doing anything about my carpet anyway, but I at least would have thought they would be interested in getting more information, so as to track down the lot number this defective battery came from and that sort of thing. In other words, the basics you would minimally expect from any reputable manufacturer concerned with the safety of their customers. I would have also at least expected them to express an interest in replacing the self-destructed battery for me, and its charging unit. They may still get back in touch with me, but I am doubtful at this point. I guess low expectations are probably the norm when dealing with these overseas e-cigarette manufactures. That is really too bad. I wish Hangsen was not the only source out there for these automatic fat batteries. Their reliability of automatic function is truly impressive compared to any other automatic e-cigarette battery I have ever tried. Hopefully some other manufacturers will be coming out with better automatics sometime soon, so I can switch away from Hangsen and twiddle my middle finger at them with glee.

 

[Charlz]

With a 1300 mah echo, I usually don't use it up completely during the day. If I expect a heavy usage evening, I'll swap it out just to have a fresh battery with it's higher starting voltage.

I purchased a plug-in charging port today that has a usb and a regular plug and a 6hr cutoff. A 300 mah echo charger should get the job done in time. If it doesn't, I can always reset it when I get up to finish while I "SS&S"

 

[lulu836]

With a 1300 mah echo, I usually don't use it up completely during the day. If I expect a heavy usage evening, I'll swap it out just to have a fresh battery with it's higher starting voltage.

I purchased a plug-in charging port today that has a usb and a regular plug and a 6hr cutoff. A 300 mah echo charger should get the job done in time. If it doesn't, I can always reset it when I get up to finish while I "SS&S"

From where did you purchase this?

 

[Charlz]

Walmart. You'll find them in the lighting to electric section of the store. Mine was 20 bucks. I've seen them at Lowes and any good hardware store. I always thought about getting one but saw it as an ego issue.

 

[billybc96]

Yeah, unfortunately (from what I've been coming up with recently after looking up this type of issue on the forum and elsewhere) this is not an issue limited to just charging Ego or ECHO batteries. This can happen with other fat batteries as well, from other manufactures - though I have yet to find any references to this happening with smaller mini and super-mini type e-cigarette batteries, at least thus far. Arguably, if there is a factory defect (or the battery gets dropped or otherwise damaged) then this sort of battery overcharging explosion and fire could conceivably occur with any rechargeable e-cigarette battery - though the fatter batteries do seem to have this happen more often. I'm not sure exactly why that should be the case, as (at least with some of these manufacturers) the same manufacturer may be making both small and large e-cigarette battery types - often times with very similar circuitry. The shear power that the larger batteries contain in comparison to the smaller ones may have something to do with it. Smaller e-cigarette batteries may just be more prone to flat out failing to work when a malfunction occurs, rather than overheating and catching fire. Certainly I've had one or two smaller e-cigarette batteries fail to charge or otherwise work anymore for no obvious reason, even after I've only been using them for a fairly short period of time. If those batteries were the larger type, they may have exploded instead? I have no idea.

 

[txtumbleweed]

I think you just had some bad luck. I've been using PV's for almost three years and I haven't had any major issues. I've been using Echo batteries for a year and a half and sometimes leave them on the charger for over 24 hours. I know this is not a good thing to do and I'm being more careful now.

 

[lulu836]

Off Topic Alert:
Received a Vision 1300mah Spinner Fat Batt. WOOF!!

 

[txtumbleweed]

Off Topic Alert:
Received a Vision 1300mah Spinner Fat Batt. WOOF!!

Is it the same diameter as the echo and how much longer?

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Walmart. You'll find them in the lighting to electric section of the store. Mine was 20 bucks. I've seen them at Lowes and any good hardware store. I always thought about getting one but saw it as an ego issue.

At one time, WalMart online had a $9.97 plug in device with two USB ports and if I remember correctly, a high amperage rating and free delivery to the store of your choice.