The ethics of "Made in USA" on clones

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edyle

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What a thought provoking thread title! There are no correct or incorrect opinions. Only thoughts that often change with the exchange of ideas.
I didn't know that this was even happening. As a small business-owner I strive to carry and personally buy "made in USA." (As I see the correlation between jobs, the economy and my purchase). I've also found that customer service is better here. This is not to say that I'm a "USA is #1!" kind of person, because we have lots to learn from others.
I do find that "made in USA" logo on the clone to be disingenuous at best. Actually dishonest. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth for the product. I suppose I would feel the same way if the product made claims (whether on the device or on the website) that are patently untrue. Yes, sounds like a possible consideration for some regulation.
Thanks for starting this conversation stevegmu :)

Yes it is dishonest. It is FRAUD.

This has nothing to do with ecigs/vaporizers in particular, it is about consumer products, fraudulent advertising, mislabelling on products.

If somebody bought a snack at the store, and the snack is labelled "Contains no peanut" and gave it to their kid who is allergic to peanut and the kid died, the manufacturer would have a big problem, because they mislabelled their product.
 

edyle

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The king mod used a an example in the OP is originally made by Surefire Vapor.
They are known for horrible customer service.

And.... The king is a copy of the Chi-You design with Lion logo and octagon locking rings.
Blatant ripoff. Zero R&D.
Not original at all.
Now again, why shouldn't I buy the $20 clone of the $230 king labled Chi-you clone?

Off topic.
That has nothing to do with mislabelling the product as "Made in USA" which is the subject of the thread.
 

edyle

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I was curious about the legality so I did a little (very little) digging. These items could be confiscated by customs, and it's probably illegal for them to be resold.

Complying with the Made in USA Standard | BCP Business Center

There we go:

Complying with the Made in USA Standard [PDF]


Introduction

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is charged with preventing deception and unfairness in the marketplace. The FTC Act gives the Commission the power to bring law enforcement actions against false or misleading claims that a product is of U.S. origin. Traditionally, the Commission has required that a product advertised as Made in USA be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. After a comprehensive review of Made in USA and other U.S. origin claims in product advertising and labeling, the Commission announced in December 1997 that it would retain the "all or virtually all" standard. The Commission also issued an Enforcement Policy Statement on U.S. Origin Claims to provide guidance to marketers who want to make an unqualified Made in USA claim under the "all or virtually all" standard and those who want to make a qualified Made in USA claim.

This publication provides additional guidance about how to comply with the "all or virtually all" standard. It also offers some general information about the U.S. Customs Service’s requirement that all products of foreign origin imported into the U.S. be marked with the name of the country of origin.

This publication is the Federal Trade Commission staff’s view of the law’s requirements. It is not binding on the Commission. The Enforcement Policy Statement issued by the FTC is at the end of the publication.

It's not just a matter of ethics; it is a matter of fraud with recognised legal implications.
 

LDS714

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Rossum

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A manufacturer who puts someone else's name and/or logo on their product, and who misrepresents where the product is made is engaging in fraud, because doing that is blatantly misrepresenting what the product really is. Maybe I'm just a surly old curmudgeon, but I still regard fraud as being intrinsically unethical.
 

edyle

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There is one factor though that needs to be added to this discussion about "Made in the USA".

How many products are being initiated in the USA, financed from Wall Street in the USA to be mass manufactured at factories which while physically located in China are commissioned to do the manufacturing and shipping to the USA on behalf of USA investors?

Back in the 80's and 90's there was much debate about manufacturing being moved to China, with US manufacturers setting up factories in China to produce consumer products for the US market. I could see manufacturers in the US finding ways to weasel their away around laws that would have normally blocked them from mislabelling products as "Made in USA".
 

Coelli

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There is one factor though that needs to be added to this discussion about "Made in the USA".

How many products are being initiated in the USA, financed from Wall Street in the USA to be mass manufactured at factories which while physically located in China are commissioned to do the manufacturing and shipping to the USA on behalf of USA investors?

Back in the 80's and 90's there was much debate about manufacturing being moved to China, with US manufacturers setting up factories in China to produce consumer products for the US market. I could see manufacturers in the US finding ways to weasel their away around laws that would have normally blocked them from mislabelling products as "Made in USA".

Well, that's why the FTC introduced guidelines about which products can be labeled "Made in the USA." All of those questions are answeresd on the link that was posted earlier, but here it is again:

Complying with the Made in USA Standard | BCP Business Center
 

Bimini Twist

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Unethical?

IMO, the vast majority of Chinese companies lie, cheat, and steal with no fear of reprisal. I wonder if their government encourages it? They do not care in the least about quality or safety. For instance, I believe the only reason they took lead paint out of children's toys is because we stopped importing them - not because they worried about lead poisoning. Of course, this runs the whole gamut of manufacturing from China - LED lumen ratings? . . . puh-lease.

Unethical.

Yes I am bothered by these fake "Made in U.S.A." engravings and fake logos. Yes, they are unethical. I do my best to avoid liars, cheats, and thieves in my personal life and I try to do the same in with my commerce.

[Edit]
Deleted a bunch of stuff that Coelli didn't want in this thread...
This isn't really a discussion about whether mods are overpriced or who can afford an authentic and who can't or anything like that.
 
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Bad Ninja

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Off topic.
That has nothing to do with mislabelling the product as "Made in USA" which is the subject of the thread.

Ya, I knew everyone would distance themselves from that little fact.
It was on topic. The USA based company used as an example I the OP is in fact a knock off.
But it is made in 'Murcia. Wasn't designed in America tho....oe even by Surefire.

If I knowingly buy a replica of a king from china for 1/10th the cost of a legit king, no fraud is committed. I knew what I bought.
No harm done. Id never buy a real king for $230, that's too much for the product IMHO, so they lose nothing.
If I sell it as a legit king, then we have fraud, committed by me. ( I don't sell any of my gear, so no problems)
 

Robinowitz

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tnt56

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At one time I worked for a company. Japan. they shipped their products over to the USA. Sat on our soil for 24 hours. Claimed to be made in the USA. (Also lost my job there, 7 months before I could retire. Sympathy. Oh heck no.) ok anymore and I'll get kicked off ECF :evil:
Their product was repackaged in USA packing. "Made in the USA" My rear end.
 

MD_Boater

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A manufacturer who puts someone else's name and/or logo on their product, and who misrepresents where the product is made is engaging in fraud, because doing that is blatantly misrepresenting what the product really is. Maybe I'm just a surly old curmudgeon, but I still regard fraud as being intrinsically unethical.

I agree with you 100%. I would be fine with it if it said, "Made in U.S.A. - Cloned in China" on it.

I need to buy you a beer sometime. Give me a shout if you ever visit the bay area (the real one. The one that goes from Jamestown to Delaware. Not that copycat one out west. We were here first).
 

B1sh0p

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Who cares? It's not like there is a rampant problem with clones being passed off as the real thing.

Generally speaking, if your in the market and searching out the real thing, you know where to go to get that.



That's an arrogant thing to say.

People who buy clones know exactly what they're getting. People buying authentics know exactly what they're getting.

And what a HUGE issue it is, right?



'Murica buddy... :facepalm:

Did they interview you here?

Man Only Buys Products Made Right Here In The USA By Cheap Immigrant Labor | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

I could hug you. I've never seen a clone try to be sold as the real thing. People know what they're getting.
 

B1sh0p

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The biggest thing that differentiates mechs and RBA's from other counterfeits is that they aren't made to deceive the buyer. They're made to replicate the performance and design at the cheapest price possible. They're marketed as clones. There's no deception. They often perform better than the original and improve on design flaws of the original.
 
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