The FDA will NOT Ban E-cigarettes
- Thread starter Petrodus
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Well, all I can say is.. As of a couple of nights ago. I am not worried about it anymore. Why? Because I can do it all myself now.
I have built completely homemade mods of 3.7v and regulated 5v.
I can make RCA style connectors
I have now managed to use nichrome wire to rebuild an atomizer and a cartomizer the other night
I have made homemade e-juice using pipe tobacco (something I do not like much, but if it were banned, yep I'll vape it)
So I can completely do all parts of vaping on my own. Might have to buy some taps and dies if I want to make some connectors, but the replacing connectors on my current att's and carto's with RCA style is easy enough if I need to do that. So, they can ban if they want, I am still not going to go back to cigarettes. I will still push people to vape even if they ban it. I will make these things for my friends and family or teach them how.
The FDA and Big Tobacco are not going to force me to kill myself with cigarettes ever again. The worst thing they can do to me at this point is make me use real tobacco to make e-juice. I will find an illegal way to get e-juice if I am forced to. I've done worst things in my life to worry about on my deathbed than whether I black marketed e-juice somehow, LOL.
You know what I think. &*%# The FDA and Big Tobacco. I think they all have a cozy spot on a scenic layer of the abyss just waiting for them. I'll wave hello when I see them if I get the chance.
I have built completely homemade mods of 3.7v and regulated 5v.
I can make RCA style connectors
I have now managed to use nichrome wire to rebuild an atomizer and a cartomizer the other night
I have made homemade e-juice using pipe tobacco (something I do not like much, but if it were banned, yep I'll vape it)
So I can completely do all parts of vaping on my own. Might have to buy some taps and dies if I want to make some connectors, but the replacing connectors on my current att's and carto's with RCA style is easy enough if I need to do that. So, they can ban if they want, I am still not going to go back to cigarettes. I will still push people to vape even if they ban it. I will make these things for my friends and family or teach them how.
The FDA and Big Tobacco are not going to force me to kill myself with cigarettes ever again. The worst thing they can do to me at this point is make me use real tobacco to make e-juice. I will find an illegal way to get e-juice if I am forced to. I've done worst things in my life to worry about on my deathbed than whether I black marketed e-juice somehow, LOL.
You know what I think. &*%# The FDA and Big Tobacco. I think they all have a cozy spot on a scenic layer of the abyss just waiting for them. I'll wave hello when I see them if I get the chance.
I have to concur with you Mc Spooky. After all nicotine is mainly derived from tobacco still.
That's my understanding, and what it means is that the feds don't have to control every link in the chain. They just have to get their hands around one fundamental choke point: the nic solution.
There is an "In Life" E-cigarette promo video where
they state their nicotine is synthetic derived from other
natural sources other than tobacco.
Click Here
they state their nicotine is synthetic derived from other
natural sources other than tobacco.
Click Here
I read somewhere that even potatoes produce some form of nicotine in some tiny amount as do other plants. Anyone know anything about this? Is this true?
Nicotine definition - Medical Dictionary definitions of popular medical terms easily defined on MedTerms
Wait, I have always wanted to do this. I find it a little rude but, it can also be fun: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=potatoes+nicotine
Yes, I have read that other plants produce small amounts of nicotine but it is not cost effective to extract it. I am putting this video into the "not accurate" category of stuff I see on youtube. Besides, even if they wasted all the potatoes in Idaho to make their carts, who cares, it is still the same nicotine.
What I really don't understand is that the FDA says these things are unsafe, or that they need to be proven to be safe... WELL WHAT ABOUT CIGARETTES? We KNOW they're not safe, but they're still able to be sold. And they allow TONS of unsafe things to be sold to us all the time.
And as far as the "for the children" nazis are concerned, they can .... off. Nobody's marketing these to kids. Nobody marketed cigarettes or alcohol to kids either, and adults like sweet fruity flavors just as much as kids do. Not only that, but why must these be regulated as drug delivery devices or tobacco products? There's no tobacco in them(by the way, I got carded at a gas station last week for trying to buy a lighter because apparently according to them, that's a tobacco product too... wtf ever), and some people don't even use nicotine in the juice they vape. Why the hell can't we just make an e-cig law that requires manufacturers of juice to list all ingredients in the juice, and a restriction for the sale of adults only? The reason is that's not what they want. They really don't care about who gets their hands on what, as long as the government gets tax revenue from it. But of course they'll take support from the "for the children" nazis and make it look like they give a damn to gain public support for this. The government and FDA never has and never give a rat's ... about your safety. This whole thing is ridiculous, and it's just more proof of how little our government actually cares about the well being of its citizens. It would rather have them suffer and die so they can make tax money from cigarettes. Then they can collect your death tax when you die too.
And as far as the "for the children" nazis are concerned, they can .... off. Nobody's marketing these to kids. Nobody marketed cigarettes or alcohol to kids either, and adults like sweet fruity flavors just as much as kids do. Not only that, but why must these be regulated as drug delivery devices or tobacco products? There's no tobacco in them(by the way, I got carded at a gas station last week for trying to buy a lighter because apparently according to them, that's a tobacco product too... wtf ever), and some people don't even use nicotine in the juice they vape. Why the hell can't we just make an e-cig law that requires manufacturers of juice to list all ingredients in the juice, and a restriction for the sale of adults only? The reason is that's not what they want. They really don't care about who gets their hands on what, as long as the government gets tax revenue from it. But of course they'll take support from the "for the children" nazis and make it look like they give a damn to gain public support for this. The government and FDA never has and never give a rat's ... about your safety. This whole thing is ridiculous, and it's just more proof of how little our government actually cares about the well being of its citizens. It would rather have them suffer and die so they can make tax money from cigarettes. Then they can collect your death tax when you die too.
The electronic cigarette device itself can and will be regulated if it is deemed a drug delivery device.
The FDA has, and still is confiscating shipments, including batteries and atomizers.
As far as the .... analogy, I hear that all the time, but this is the kind of thing that I worry about...
REGION: Raided smoke shops back in business
Nobody with power or money gives a damn about people selling illegal paraphernalia, that is why it isn't a good analogy.
But we already know the powers that want to stamp out electronic cigarettes.
It isn't safe to assume anything.
Basically, it will come down to the current court case...
If the FDA wins
Electronic cigarettes will be declared drug delivery devices, and they will immediately be taken off the market.
The FDA will step up their efforts to confiscate shipments of anything and everything electronic cigarette related.
All electonic cigarette businesses in the United States will go out of business.
Electronic cigarettes will only return to the market after someone has applied for marketing them as a drug delivery device.
That process takes years, and is extremely expensive, and many studies must be conducted.
And then they will only return to market if approved by the FDA, which they may not be.
And if they do return, they will be extremely expensive, and possibly require a prescription.
If the FDA loses
Electronic cigarettes will be treated as tobacco products.
They will then be regulated by the FDA under the authority given by the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act.
Most likely they will available only in tamper-proof cartridges.
Most likely they will have strict limits on the nicotine strength, and it will probably be quite low.
It is also a strong possibility that they will remove all flavors, and only tobacco (and maybe menthol) flavors will be available.
Then the government will eventually establish a tax schedule for electronic cigarettes.
The current tax structure for tobacco products is mostly based on perceived harm of a given tobacco product.
For this reason, it seems safe to assume that the tax rate may not be that high as most people think.
Tobacco products are basically supposed to be taxed in relation to the harm they are believed to cause.
And because of that, electronic cigarettes should be taxed at rates comparable to snuff and snus.
I assume these are the current Federal Excise Taxes...
TTB Tax and Fee Rate
If the FDA wins
Electronic cigarettes will be declared drug delivery devices, and they will immediately be taken off the market.
The FDA will step up their efforts to confiscate shipments of anything and everything electronic cigarette related.
All electonic cigarette businesses in the United States will go out of business.
Electronic cigarettes will only return to the market after someone has applied for marketing them as a drug delivery device.
That process takes years, and is extremely expensive, and many studies must be conducted.
And then they will only return to market if approved by the FDA, which they may not be.
And if they do return, they will be extremely expensive, and possibly require a prescription.
If the FDA loses
Electronic cigarettes will be treated as tobacco products.
They will then be regulated by the FDA under the authority given by the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act.
Most likely they will available only in tamper-proof cartridges.
Most likely they will have strict limits on the nicotine strength, and it will probably be quite low.
It is also a strong possibility that they will remove all flavors, and only tobacco (and maybe menthol) flavors will be available.
Then the government will eventually establish a tax schedule for electronic cigarettes.
The current tax structure for tobacco products is mostly based on perceived harm of a given tobacco product.
For this reason, it seems safe to assume that the tax rate may not be that high as most people think.
Tobacco products are basically supposed to be taxed in relation to the harm they are believed to cause.
And because of that, electronic cigarettes should be taxed at rates comparable to snuff and snus.
I assume these are the current Federal Excise Taxes...
TTB Tax and Fee Rate
Code:
[B]Tobacco Products [/B][B]1000 units [/B][B]Pack of 20[/B]
Small Cigarettes $50.33 $1.01
Large Cigarettes $105.69 $2.11
Small Cigars $50.33 $1.01
[B]Tobacco Products [/B][B]1 lb. [/B][B]Tin or Pouch[/B]
Pipe Tobacco $2.8311 $0.1769
Chewing Tobacco $0.5033 $0.0315
Snuff $1.51 $0.0944
Roll-your-own Tobacco $24.78 $1.5488I am not sure I understand your fears. I am sure they are valid but, I don't get your point. It is like comparing apples to oranges. Can you please help me understand your point?
Your link points to an article where the stores are being raided for selling paraphernalia which were claimed to be for tobacco use but used for smoking .......... Electronic cigarettes are not used for smoking .......... They are used for smoking vapor containing nicotine. Unless electronic cigarettes become more used for illegal drug use, there shouldn't be the same fear.
That should read, "If the FDA wins and bans" and "If the FDA wins but doesn't ban". If the FDA loses, they are going to continue to fight.
I can see in that post that you are truly afraid of the FDA and/or government. I honestly believe that you are over-estimating their power. Maybe you are correct. None of us really know at this point. Yet, I think I am going to respectively agree to disagree.
We can post 483,000 reasons why the FDA will lose, including expert scientists that say nicotine is not harmful to most people. I can copy and paste if people want it.
Bottom line: It doesn't matter. This is about tax revenue - not safety. Any debate on safety is a waste of time, IMO,
Bottom line: It doesn't matter. This is about tax revenue - not safety. Any debate on safety is a waste of time, IMO,
Agree...It's all about money.
On another thread a member mentioned...
"Both Phillip Morris and RJ Reynolds have e-cig prototypes in the works. It seems like they're copying parts of the design elements from what we're currently using...like making sealed disposables so they can't be refilled etc.. liquid nicotine solutions..."
Awesome. I don't think we need to worry about the ban anymore. If they are getting into the game, their hands up every politician's a** should make this their next revenue stream. Now the concern is about how bad the FDA is going to regulate. You know Big Tobacco will need to make sure the "little guys" are out of the game.
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