The FDA will NOT Ban E-cigarettes

[LordDavon]

This: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...174-se-njoy-vs-fda-court-dockets-updates.html is an excellent read. Some of the crap the FDA are pulling just wont stand up in court.

I can see where you are coming from better. I still don't completely agree but, I haven't finished reading everything either. There is no way that the FDA can win all of the motions and, well, some of them are just off the wall! Some of these things were making me laugh. Post #17 is very interesting. I can see why you were thinking such extremes. They really are trying to pull all of this crap!

It is a great read. Thank you for the link.

 

[LordDavon]

Big tobacco is .........No sympathy here!

Very interesting thread

_________________________________________________
Secrets of the FDA: Suppressed Information
Drug Industry, FDA and Health Issues
Jonathan W. Emord
Only attorney in history who has defeated the FDA 7 times
6 times on First Amendment grounds
Click Here

I am starting to think that we should change the name of the thread to "How DC2 changed LordDavon's mind". Not an easy thing to do either!

I am reading the 6/23/2010 Brief right now.

 

[LordDavon]

I love this: "And FDA has repeatedly rejected such an interpretation as well, making clear—as its chief counsel observed in 2002—that “it only regulates products [as a drug or device] if they are marketed with claims of medical or therapeutic utility.”See infra 35.There is no reasoned basis to treat the products at issue here any differently.".

This along with their filing of, "The FDA went on to argue that "Alliance’s entire argument that FDA drug jurisdiction is limited to products for which the "manufacturer makes express claims of therapeutic benefit" is groundless. ....... Under the statute and FDA regulations (21 C.F.R. §§ 201.128, § 801.4), and as borne out in FDA regulatory practice and upheld by the courts, the intended use of a drug or device – whether to affect the structure or any function of the body or for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, orprevention of disease – "may be derived or inferred from labeling, promotional material, advertising, or any other relevant source." In addition to express claims of therapeutic benefit, this evidence has included non-therapeutic claims, implied claims, productformulation, directions for use, circumstances of sale, and the like. ("The various items of evidence strongly suggest that appellants were distributing ‘drugs’ within the meaning of [the FDCA]" – one such item being the "commercial name" of the product); ".

These two items together really mean we, as a united community, really need to watch what we say and how we represent vaping. Wow!

ADD: It is good to see how much the FDA got slapped around by the courts. Many of their motions were found to have no real basis. Awesome!

 

[Amutt]

*wonders how many ppl have a stockpile of supplies, just in case*

 

[LordDavon]

Well, it looks like the FDA has pretty much lost the ability to ban. The fight is for regulation. What it looks like is that e-cigarettes will be regulated as a "tobacco product". The question is, how will they regulate???

 

[PoliticallyIncorrect]

Well, it looks like the FDA has pretty much lost the ability to ban. The fight is for regulation. What it looks like is that e-cigarettes will be regulated as a "tobacco product". The question is, how will they regulate???

Here's a guess: they'll do it by certifying (or if you prefer, licensing) authorizations to produce ejuice in which nicotine is a component, and the required processes and quality controls under which such certificates will be granted would separate the men (read Pfizer, etc.) from the boys (read VaporBomb, etc.) The cost of 30ml of CinneBomb will go from $14.95 to $145.50.

 

[Petrodus]

DC2 wrote:
It is also a strong possibility that they will remove all flavors, and only tobacco (and maybe menthol) flavors will be available.

All the discussions on the many flavors available will just be faded memories of the "Good Ole Days"


_________________________________________________
Keep your friends close and your enemies Closer
Secrets of the FDA: Suppressed Information
Drug Industry, FDA and Health Issues
Jonathan W. Emord
Only attorney in history who has defeated the FDA 7 times
6 times on First Amendment grounds
Click Here

 

[JonnyVapΣ]

All the discussions on the many flavors available will just be faded memories of the "Good Ole Days"

They can't ban flavorings. It's not hard to DIY.

 

[Petrodus]

JonnyVapΣ wrote:
They can't ban flavorings. It's not hard to DIY.

Whatever stunts the FDA tries to pull...This group will will come up with the solutions (pun intended).

 

[JonnyVapΣ]

Whatever stunts the FDA tries to pull...This group will will come up with the solutions (pun intended).

LOL....awesome.

 

[DC2]

They can't ban flavorings. It's not hard to DIY.

The big question is how tamper-proof are they going to be able to make the cartridges.

Of course it doesn't matter to me, I just drip.

 

[Wolf]

I don't care whether I vape Butter Rum with or without nicotine, but I have a 60 ml bottle of 100mg/ml nicotine locked up. I have rubber gloves, eye protection and pipettes and know how to use them. I've already mixed half the bottle down. It is now 300 ml of 90%VG 10%PG and the strength is 10mg/ml. I started stocking up on my preferred atomizers and am cleaning out old ones to reuse. Nicotine will not be an issue in our house.

 

[Petrodus]

Originally Posted by DC2

The big question is how tamper-proof are they going to be able to make the cartridges.

I "direct drip" also. Tamper proof issues would a problem for the general public. There are those on this forum who will post the way around anything "they" throw at us.

 

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by DC2


I "direct drip" also. Tamper proof issues would a problem for the general public. There are those on this forum who will post the way around anything "they" throw at us.

Probably cartomizers. That would be problematic for the general public, but some of us already know how to refill cartos and in several different ways.

 

[TL1000RSquid]

So how long would 100mg nic juice keep for anyway if you keep it in a dark place?

 

[Skud]

for those willing to put forth the effort, the ban will mean precisely squat, aside from a little basic chemistry and electronics research and more time taken out of your week devoted to it. nicotine in chemical form will never be impossible to get (or extract from tobacco), neither will PG or VG, and neither will the flavorings. battery mods are easy enough, and they're gonna have a really hard time banning the distribution of that information, as it took an act of Congress to (slightly) quell the proliferation of information on the internet regarding making methampthetamines. and some on this board have already showed us that making your own atomizers is 100% do-able and really not all that hard for anyone willing.

though it will ruin it for the majority of american smokers, many of us here will be just fine. it won't be as easy as putting in an order to your favorite supplier anymore, then opening your mailbox 3 days later to a bunch of awesome vaping goodies, but it will be do-able, and any extra effort put forth is way better than resigning yourself to the slow and painful death that smoking will most likely bring.

and any change is going to come slow and hard, offering all of us ample time to stock-up on enough high-potency nic juice to last us at least a year or two. and the degradation of nicotine is really a very slow process. 100mg nic juice might go down to 99 or 98 over a few year period if stored properly. this should give us ample time to figure out a good chemical nicotine source or easy and effective extraction method.

 

[LordDavon]

Whatever stunts the FDA tries to pull...This group will will come up with the solutions (pun intended).

You bet your .... we will! Let's not have any open communication about it though. They are probably watching.

 

[LordDavon]

Originally Posted by DC2


I "direct drip" also. Tamper proof issues would a problem for the general public. There are those on this forum who will post the way around anything "they" throw at us.

I drip as well. I think I go through juice a little faster though but, it tastes much better. I also had a bad LR atty so I pulled the bridge off of it and direct drip into the coil. I will be ...... if they force carts or cartos at me!

 

[Skud]

p.s. wanted to add on to my last post that nobody without proper chemistry knowledge and equipment go out and buy pure nicotine, you'll most likely just kill yourself, so do not attempt this. the purist of nicotine solutions is around 990mg/ml, or "instant death" if a certain amount drops on your skin. anything more than 100mg/ml is really of no use to us, and even that should be handled with extreme care. the reason why i brought up chemical nicotine is because it will pretty much always be possible to get nicotine liquid in concentrations that are useful to us, it would take quite a bit of legislation (that would likely muck-up other industries in the process), to prevent that from happening.

seriously, unless you're a professional, licensed chemist in a professional, licensed lab, DO NOT EVER TRY THIS!!! i can not stress that enough.

 

[Petrodus]

Skud posted:
for those willing to put forth the effort, the ban will mean precisely squat...

Reminds me of a George Carlin routine

"The Real Owners of America"
Below is a short out-take
bleeped out a couple of words...but you know what they are

They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else.

But I'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them. That's against their interests. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they're getting F---- by a system that threw them overboard 30 F----- years ago.

It's a big club, and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club.