The Kate ban - explained.

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TropicalBob

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jan 13, 2008
5,623
65
Port Charlotte, FL USA
Over the years, I've had to listen to quite few lectures on libel and slander, as part of every reporter's training. Slander is the spoken word; a forum like this could have a libel suit filed against it, for defamatory printed words.

Now, generally, there are very few libel suits filed because of the difficulty of winning. A complainant has to prove statements were false and that the author made them with malicious intent. That is really, really hard to prove in court. But we were always cautioned to state the facts and let the reader conclude whether someone is a conman or not. Writers don't make that conclusion for anyone.

We also learned there are certain words considered so insulting that they constitute libel per se. No need to prove malicious intent (the hard part to prove). The words themselves are malicious. So we can never call someone a crook, thief, liar, etc. That's an instant libel suit - and a publication will lose in court unless every i is dotted and t crossed to make the case of truth.

A forum administrator with a sense of justice will seek to maintain standards much as are required in civilized society. Set aside whether an admin can be sued. A decent admin will not tolerate law-breaking behavior from forum posters. And libeling an individual breaks the law.

I did read the thread as it was being posted and, like Emp I believe it was, saw a train wreck coming. I shut up my quick temper and just read.

SJ did what had to be done; Kate has not returned because she probably feels her free speech rights now have limits. Kate, they always did. When you overstep them, you pay a penalty. In the process, you lower yourself, unfortunately, to a level not far above the miscreant deed you called out. You're much better than that. Much.

Come back, again be the model citizen you were for many months, and feel the love that awaits you.
 

Kate

Moved On
Jun 26, 2008
7,191
47
UK
I don't care about the accusation of libel or the ban TBob, that's not my problem.

Smokey Joe was warned about a conflict of interests coming up by me well before it blew up. He stood by and watched as facts unravelled that show unethical marketing to forum members. He did nothing to put things right and when people discovered what had been going on and covered up he got stuck in the middle of a completely understandable backlash.

Still he did not do the ethical thing and admit that the forum was being used for a scam. He blamed me and others for being trouble makers to deflect attention from his own bad management and judgement.

It's not my fault that Parked posted marketing videos on a supposedly independent review board. It's not my fault that people were influenced by him. It's not my fault that he refused to recognise anything unethical about that sort of advertising. I am not taking the blame for trying to establish facts and not being allowed to because someone wants to cover their own inadequate handling of the case.

I don't like supporting this forum now, it feels dirty, the ban has nothing to do with me not wanting to be a presence here.

I wish I could resist posting and just lurk but there are people here that I care about and respect, you being one of them TBob. I have to reply to your post because you have bought into the idea that the problem is about libel or me being banned. I know why Joe banned me and right or wrong I have not complained about that.

I don't like corruption and will not co-operate when it means deceiving the community in the way some people on this forum try to do.
 

Kate

Moved On
Jun 26, 2008
7,191
47
UK
Hi Tribal ... I'm sorry, I keep being a hypocrite, meaning not to post and then posting. Really I shouldn't, as you can see I can only be a negative influence here now.

128814062142546473.jpg


I seem to be turning up as the undead occasionally ... sorry to be inconsistent.
 

strayling

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 25, 2009
1,061
5
Seattle, USA
Hi Tribal ... I'm sorry, I keep being a hypocrite, meaning not to post and then posting. Really I shouldn't, as you can see I can only be a negative influence here now.

Please don't sell yourself short, Kate. You have been and can continue to be a very positive influence here if you want. Having said that, if you don't want to stay then I can respect your choice.

Here, have a kitteh:

roflbot9kmu28d351f6gh8.jpg


(I hope you don't speak Welsh.)
 

CandyGirl

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 3, 2009
543
5
Joytech makes the 510

The 510 / Yeti is very similar to the Janty Dura

But Janty put it's own spin on the Janty Dura using different technology in
the unit.

So they are the same but will preform different

thanks
parked

Could you clarify that Parked? If that is the case then why do they have exactly the same promo images on their sites?

Yes they are made at the same place your right joyetech ! But Janty took the 510 model and made some adjustments to it improving it putting different technology behind the 510!

Example :

Maserati's share engines with Ferrari ! Yet Ferrari will take that same engine and make improvements/adding there technology to make it better for the model it's going in ! It might look the same but it's not ! but would you call a Maserati a Ferrari even though they share technolgy and build some models side by side ? NO

A Ferrari is a Ferrari and A Maserati is a Maserati !

A Janty Dura is a Janty Dura and a Joye510 is a JOYE510 !

I don't know anything about cars to be honest but I presume Ferrari don't use pictures of a Maserati while selling their products.

Litecig 510

Joye 510 Personal Vaporizer Joye 510 Set

Janty Dura

JANTY DURA JANTY DURA

Aside from the colour they are the exact same unit. The Dura in front of me looks slightly different granted but it to me it seems the only change Janty have made is slapping their name on an atomiser. I could be wrong and was wondering whether you had tested your claims by comparing directly with a 510 by using both. Clearly you haven't so I'll leave it there.

lol

all you have to do is ask Joyetech they will tell you the same

Instead of asking me ask them directly

You clearly didn't get my example at all but it's o.k.

"looks the same/Identical"

True but whats really under the hood !

"Looks like all Janty did was slap there name on it "

True but besides the Logo whats under the hood !

Thanks

Parked

Ok I took your advice Parked and emailed Joyetech to find out what the difference is. According to them the Dura & 510 are identical aside from a slight difference in appearance, there is no difference under the hood.

Here's the reply they sent me:

Dear Tom,

Thanks for your question. I'g glad to tell you that they are identical as you said, the only difference between them is that there is a bit of different appearance.

I hope my answer will help you not to be confused by that any more.

Best regards

Judy

Abroad sales


it's always nice to know what's under the hood.
 

mixxy

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 29, 2008
1,022
975
Oregon
Hi Tribal ... I'm sorry, I keep being a hypocrite, meaning not to post and then posting. Really I shouldn't, as you can see I can only be a negative influence here now.


128814062142546473.jpg


I seem to be turning up as the undead occasionally ... sorry to be inconsistent.

Not if we're playin' - havin' some fun - and makin' DIY goodies (*Mixxy digs frantically to get Kate all the way out of that hole* :cool: :D)We love ya Kate.. please don't go away:(
 

ApOsTle51

Moved On
ECF Veteran
Aug 29, 2008
2,141
65
UK
This Forum isnt the small gathering place it once was, it's gone major league now with big name sponsors and all. It will work differently to how it once did , It has to to enable it's survival.
SJ can't run it anymore without financial backing from suppliers,( and to a lesser degree the supporting members) that's not his fault. In order for this forum to carry on I think it's a must.
Ofcourse the downside of sponsoring suppliers is the ethics involved, there may not be any but it does present a bias on the side of the suppliers , that's just a natural presumption. In light of a few recent events , that presumption is turning into less of a guess and more of the way it is.

Mind you supplier bias I can live with if it is the case , but down right trickery by a supplier and no corrective action by administrators does make me wonder how far things are going on the bias side of things.
How far can supplier actually go before having a slap on the wrist ?? a good distance is my guess.

I'm not gonna bother arguing the toss over manufacturer/supplier/reviewer bias anymore..that's just how it is now..people can make their own minds up..because arguing the point doesn't do any good at all nothings gonna change.

The stable door is open and the horse has bolted..may as well sweep up and call it a day. I for one can't be bothered to chase the horse around the paddock anymore.
 

rsngfrce

Super Member
ECF Veteran
This Forum isnt the small gathering place it once was, it's gone major league now with big name sponsors and all. It will work differently to how it once did , It has to to enable it's survival.
SJ can't run it anymore without financial backing from suppliers,( and to a lesser degree the supporting members) that's not his fault. In order for this forum to carry on I think it's a must.
Ofcourse the downside of sponsoring suppliers is the ethics involved, there may not be any but it does present a bias on the side of the suppliers , that's just a natural presumption. In light of a few recent events , that presumption is turning into less of a guess and more of the way it is.

Mind you supplier bias I can live with if it is the case , but down right trickery by a supplier and no corrective action by administrators does make me wonder how far things are going on the bias side of things.
How far can supplier actually go before having a slap on the wrist ?? a good distance is my guess.

Very well put, IMHO...
 
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This Forum isnt the small gathering place it once was, it's gone major league now with big name sponsors and all. It will work differently to how it once did , It has to to enable it's survival.
SJ can't run it anymore without financial backing from suppliers,( and to a lesser degree the supporting members) that's not his fault. In order for this forum to carry on I think it's a must.
Ofcourse the downside of sponsoring suppliers is the ethics involved, there may not be any but it does present a bias on the side of the suppliers , that's just a natural presumption. In light of a few recent events , that presumption is turning into less of a guess and more of the way it is.

Mind you supplier bias I can live with if it is the case , but down right trickery by a supplier and no corrective action by administrators does make me wonder how far things are going on the bias side of things.
How far can supplier actually go before having a slap on the wrist ?? a good distance is my guess.

I'm not gonna bother arguing the toss over manufacturer/supplier/reviewer bias anymore..that's just how it is now..people can make their own minds up..because arguing the point doesn't do any good at all nothings gonna change.

The stable door is open and the horse has bolted..may as well sweep up and call it a day. I for one can't be bothered to chase the horse around the paddock anymore.

Well said. I wrote to SJ privately expressing this same thing. It is NOT the supplier bias that is driving people away.. but the negligence of the admin to admit the bias that makes people feel unsafe here. In case I didn't get that point across in the 2 page PM SJ.. that WAS my point. It is how you handled the situation that is instilling fear in members who are now afraid if they speak their mind.. they will be "punished" (and not the good kinda punished like I do!) and the supplier will have NO consequence!

SJ- I am not sure how old you are.. and if you prefer to answer privately.. that is fine.. but maybe this is a generational thing.. because it seems the more "mature" members are the ones uprising about this and the youngsters have let it go. Maybe we are just all having a generationasl miscommunication.. happens all the time.

Just a thought.

Wish this could be fixed.. I miss Kate! Wish I had a kitty pic handy.. but since Kate left.. the kitties have been scarce!


Save the kitties!!!!!!
 

Kate

Moved On
Jun 26, 2008
7,191
47
UK
128769456218228041.jpg


I'm only posting in the hopes that Spikey will punish me ;)

It would be good if this whole story could be written off as a learning experience, growing pains for the forum. As a community our shared values could be acknowledged and affirmed and trust re-established.

Personally I think our admins are good people but like any of us are prone to occasional lapses of judgement or insecurities.

We really need to help each other out, there is too much work to be done for vaping, schisms and in fighting are not productive.
 

igetcha

Reviewer / Blogger
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 9, 2008
1,833
317
50
UK
www.E-Cig-Reviews.com
QUOTE FROM SOMEONE ELSE EARLIER IN THIS THREAD............NOT IGETCHA!
Originally Posted by parked
Joytech makes the 510

The 510 / Yeti is very similar to the Janty Dura

But Janty put it's own spin on the Janty Dura using different technology in
the unit.

So they are the same but will preform different

thanks
parked


Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubadub
Could you clarify that Parked? If that is the case then why do they have exactly the same promo images on their sites?

Quote:
Originally Posted by parked
Yes they are made at the same place your right Joyetech ! But Janty took the 510 model and made some adjustments to it improving it putting different technology behind the 510!

Example :

Maserati's share engines with Ferrari ! Yet Ferrari will take that same engine and make improvements/adding there technology to make it better for the model it's going in ! It might look the same but it's not ! but would you call a Maserati a Ferrari even though they share technolgy and build some models side by side ? NO

A Ferrari is a Ferrari and A Maserati is a Maserati !

A Janty Dura is a Janty Dura and a Joye510 is a JOYE510 !


Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubadub
I don't know anything about cars to be honest but I presume Ferrari don't use pictures of a Maserati while selling their products.

Litecig 510

Joye 510 Personal Vaporizer Joye 510 Set

Janty Dura

JANTY DURA JANTY DURA

Aside from the colour they are the exact same unit. The Dura in front of me looks slightly different granted but it to me it seems the only change Janty have made is slapping their name on an atomiser. I could be wrong and was wondering whether you had tested your claims by comparing directly with a 510 by using both. Clearly you haven't so I'll leave it there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by parked
lol

all you have to do is ask Joyetech they will tell you the same

Instead of asking me ask them directly

You clearly didn't get my example at all but it's o.k.

"looks the same/Identical"

True but whats really under the hood !

"Looks like all Janty did was slap there name on it "

True but besides the Logo whats under the hood !

Thanks

Parked


Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubadub
Ok I took your advice Parked and emailed Joyetech to find out what the difference is. According to them the Dura & 510 are identical aside from a slight difference in appearance, there is no difference under the hood.

Here's the reply they sent me:

Dear Tom,

Thanks for your question. I'g glad to tell you that they are identical as you said, the only difference between them is that there is a bit of different appearance.

I hope my answer will help you not to be confused by that any more.

Best regards

Judy

Abroad sales



it's always nice to know what's under the hood.

END OF QUOTE THAT WAS NOT FROM IGETCHA!!!!



IGETCHA DID SAY THOUGH:-




LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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K-Sound Krew

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 20, 2008
1,022
2
Worcester
Igetcha I think your analogy was a bit off

I used to have a 86 VW cabrio

I had a friend who would put, porshe or other small racing engines in VW rabbitts and bugs

My cabrio looked exactly the same as the ones the college chicks were driving, but with the sports car performance engine and racing suspension I had in it, I could beat any knucle head in a muscle car off the line
 

igetcha

Reviewer / Blogger
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 9, 2008
1,833
317
50
UK
www.E-Cig-Reviews.com
Igetcha I think your analogy was a bit off

I used to have a 86 VW cabrio

I had a friend who would put, porshe or other small racing engines in VW rabbitts and bugs

My cabrio looked exactly the same as the ones the college chicks were driving, but with the sports car performance engine and racing suspension I had in it, I could beat any knucle head in a muscle car off the line


what you on about! i was quoting someone else!!!!!!!


all i said was "LMAO" because i thought it was funny.

i will edit the post to avoid further confusion!
 

K-Sound Krew

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 20, 2008
1,022
2
Worcester
what you on about!


Yeah learn how to use quotes buddy, that was just one big long mess, couldn't tell who was saying what
:D

Well who ever said it, was comparing cars that look different but have similar engines, when they should be comparing cars that look the same

Plus I just wanted to mention the best car I ever had, may she rest in peace
 
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128769456218228041.jpg


I'm only posting in the hopes that Spikey will punish me ;)

It would be good if this whole story could be written off as a learning experience, growing pains for the forum. As a community our shared values could be acknowledged and affirmed and trust re-established.

Personally I think our admins are good people but like any of us are prone to occasional lapses of judgement or insecurities.

We really need to help each other out, there is too much work to be done for vaping, schisms and in fighting are not productive.

Here kitty, kityy, kitty!!!

catwoman.jpg

I agree that only good people would put so much heart and soul into a forum that they are not going to profit much from... so now that we are all in agreeance that Kate needs to be "punished" NOT "banned" (although that bad kitty mouth she has may need to be washed out with soap lol!) and SJ needs to use better judgement next time in handling "shady" situations... Let's kick some gov't ... before they take away our PV's!

Also... a humble suggestion... SJ.. I know this cannot be run as a democracy for the reasons stated in your PM to me... but maybe you could agree to consult with a few of the other mods when a tough situation comes up and come to a judgement "together" rather than making the call on your own? I think that would be helpful as we all have days when we are in a "mood" and that shoudl not affect the board :)

SJ, as the owner, has the end say. I totally respect that. All i was saying is that the actions were similar to what the article was saying. Never said you should handle it differently. I was making a comparison, not a judgment call.

I got what you were saying rat... I hear ya.
(btw... I still have to re-upload the video for your doc... will try to re-do it this week as you said you only got half of it last time... and it was not the good half!)
 
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