The Kate ban - explained.

[Oliver]

Just in case anyone is interested - Will British libel law kill net free speech? | open Democracy News Analysis

Very interesting article that explains the scandal that is UK libel law - just because a site is not in the UK, does not exempt it from the perils of UK law.

 

[MonkeyMonk]

SJ, I was editing and posting additional questions while you were responding. However, I believe your response answered those additional questions, too.

I respect you much more for writing a long explanation and for weighing all points and for being here to keep track of this post and answer questions.

And, now I would like to ask, or rather beg for a favor. If it is at all possible (and you need not answer this to me or in public) would you please consider contacting Kate and asking her what remedy she was seeking on the issue that caused her banning. It might have been an easy remedy... or maybe not. I don't know. But, I believe that in asking this all the negative of the last week could be removed and all the broken fences repaired.

 

[Lika]

SJ, I was editing and posting additional questions while you were responding. However, I believe your response answered those additional questions, too.

I respect you much more for writing a long explanation and for weighing all points and for being here to keep track of this post and answer questions.

And, now I would like to ask, or rather beg for a favor. If it is at all possible (and you need not answer this to me or in public) would you please consider contacting Kate and asking her what remedy she was seeking on the issue that caused her banning. It might have been an easy remedy... or maybe not. I don't know. But, I believe that in asking this all the negative of the last week could be removed and all the broken fences repaired.

Thanks for clarifying you were editing as SJ was replying. I was beginning to wonder why he left out some of it when he quoted you. It's the little things like this that can blow up over nothing. Again, thanks for being so thorough.

 

[rejoice]

Kate, you are needed. Put your differences aside. Miss you and alot of people
on here do. Kate,please come back.

 

[WiηgC¤mmαηdεя]

Thanks Smokey Joe for the explanation

 

[wv2win]

SJ, nice job on the explanation. It has always seemed to me you do your best to allow members to state their thoughts with minimal interference and you really try hard to be fair.

I do hope Kate returns as she was a great help to all of us but especially new members.

SJ, keep up the good work.

 

[BARENETTED]

Kate - please come back. The newbs need you. You have the answer to every question and you were always there for us. Its no fun without you. Please, pretty please with a cherry on top???
I really do miss you. If you come back, you will be coming back for all of us members.

SJ - Thanks for keeping this site up. It is really important to all of us.

Kiss and make up- life is tooo darn short.

 

[tribalmasters]

Well I scrolled, clicked and scrolled some more and didn't spot any pictures of a certain nun sporting a cigar and halo anywhere! From now on I am staying away from complicated and political posts, I just don't get them and will probably end up in trouble!! 8-o Even some new members are at it! Instead of 'which end do I smoke my shiny new 901 from' or genuine stuff like 'whats clove flavour like' some jump right into the battle hehe!

 

[Idahojo]

Please Kate come back! We miss all your hilarious pics and comments and genuinely needed help. We love ya Kate.

Sending a big hug from Idaho!

 

[nicosnack]

Understandable.

Rather than say "con man" you might say: "Based upon my personal experience and observation, I must say, that it seems and appears to me, that you, my good and respected friend, have perhaps given and displayed every sign, symbol, appearance and indication of someone who may or may not be, but perhaps is, very similar in sign, symbol, appearance and indication to the type of person commonly, popularly and by custom and usual usage, known as a "con man".

I'll send y'all my bill.

 

[breakfastchef]

Enough said; life goes on.

 

[Lika]

Understandable.

Rather than say "con man" you might say: "Based upon my personal experience and observation, I must say, that it seems and appears to me, that you, my good and respected friend, have perhaps given and displayed every sign, symbol, appearance and indication of someone who may or may not be, but perhaps is, very similar in sign, symbol, appearance and indication to the type of person commonly, popularly and by custom and usual usage, known as a "con man".

I'll send y'all my bill.

Yup, that should do it! LOL

 

[nicowolf]

Thanks SJ for the explanation. Many forum admins wouldn't never have explained. It does help us know where the line is that we can't cross.

I think you have been a very fair, rational, and compassionate admin - for what it's worth. I would not want to fill your shoes - that is a whole lot more responsibility than I want. You do it quite well. At times, I wish I could work for someone like you (honesty here, even if it does mean talking nice to an authority figure).


KATE! KATE! We have begged, pleaded, implored, and groveled at your feet. It is time now to come back and visit us. We love you.

 

[mixxy]

I hope Kate will be back home soon!

 

[Duncan]

SJ, yes, thanks for explanation, and like others I hope Kate will return.
I run a community web site & forum in the UK Home Page and have to be constantly mindful of libellous posts. When I see one my policy is to delete it and then PM the person who posted it, explaining why I've 'pulled it'. If you can be seen to have acted resposibly, and pulled the offending post as soon as you became aware of it, then you are safe(ish).

Another poster in this thread has made the (correct) point that expressing a personal opinion is never slander or libel, but making a direct statement potentially is.

 

[bizzyb0t]

Thank you SJ, for explaining it.

I guess we have to be a bit more careful of what we say in our suspicions and criticisms so we don't cross the line.

Hopefully, Kate will come back. She is much needed here.

 

[tribalmasters]

Can't we all just go back to fax machines!?

 

[Phalse]

who cares, its a temp ban!

Why is Kate being Emo about a Temp Ban!

 

[Kate]

"... expressing a personal opinion is never slander or libel, but making a direct statement potentially is." That's what I got banned for - an opinion, clearly stated as opinion.

Anyway this isn't the issue for me at all, the important matter is about how the forum and community have been used and abused. Being banned and libel are red herrings.

I wrote this on another post to clarify what I think happened. Never did I ask for specific action to be taken, rather answers to questions that I hoped would be forthcoming and lead to resolution. The people who were misled and invested money in the scam still have not been considered.

"My ban is over but the reason for it remains.

A 'reviewer' put 'independent reviews' on the review board. At least 25% of these were found out to be marketing threads once he started selling some of the products he had posted reviews for. This had been known about for at least four weeks by an admin before becoming public knowledge.

Some people were influenced to buy products based on the 'reviews'.

When asked about the ethics of having marketing threads on a supposedly independent review board the trader never gave an answer except to state that 'it's who I am' and that the threads should not be moved. Admins chose to ignore this and when one was asked about other known marketing threads on the review board no answer was given.

Legitimate consumer concerns were not addressed, threads were closed, all discussion discouraged and selected history wiped. Victims did not receive acknowledgement and the marketing was removed from the review board apparently under duress. Rather than recognise and deal with dodgy ethics it was seen fit to cover up. Banning me for stating a truth that would be provable in court but not dealing with the problem shows where priorities lie for this site.

Due to control freakery, lack of trust, conflicting commercial interests and questionable management motives I am not going to be hanging around giving the impression that this is a community-safe site.

Thanks to all my friends for your support, if you want to stay in touch you can still send me private messages. I've really enjoyed your company, there are some great people here and I hope to see you around. "

Unless I find other important unresolved issues involving me this is intended to be my final post here.

I encourage anyone who is not happy with the way things are run to put up and shut up or leave. This is Smokey Joe's forum and as such he decides on what is appropriate.

I have decided that it's time for me to move on.

Thanks again to all my friends, you've been great company.

 

[Oliver]

Right, and I encourage anyone who is unhappy about the way things are run here to tell me, so I can work on improving things.

Really sorry you're going, Kate.