Guys, GUYS, Scarfy is one yours! She is an ex-pat here. I doubt she would even know what a kangaroo looks like 
I bet she knows what Julia Gillard looks like.
I bet she knows what Julia Gillard looks like.
The NETty awards!
- Thread starter scarf-ace
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
-
- Tags
- goodejuice halo heather's heathers
- Status
There it is..
Dan, get on top of Rebuildable atomizers. I highly recommend an Igo-L, Vision Eternity or a phoenix (the original). The Vision eternity is a little more costly but produces amazing throat hit and good flavour and it's tool-less, perfect for a beginner. You could also try genesis style tank Rebuildables like an RSST which is perfect for a beginner. Those will definitely bring out a lot more flavour in your juices.
That and (and I am being cheeky here) stop chasing a good blissful drag of Devil Dog with an analog Malrlboro or Lucky strike. Toss those in the bin and your vaping experience will quadruple in satisfaction within 48 hours.
Dan, get on top of Rebuildable atomizers. I highly recommend an Igo-L, Vision Eternity or a phoenix (the original). The Vision eternity is a little more costly but produces amazing throat hit and good flavour and it's tool-less, perfect for a beginner. You could also try genesis style tank Rebuildables like an RSST which is perfect for a beginner. Those will definitely bring out a lot more flavour in your juices.
That and (and I am being cheeky here) stop chasing a good blissful drag of Devil Dog with an analog Malrlboro or Lucky strike. Toss those in the bin and your vaping experience will quadruple in satisfaction within 48 hours.
Yes, I forgot to mention about dripping. I have a 510 bridgeless from highdesertvapes and a Joyetech 510. I have not noticed a difference in flavor. In fact, I like the flavor better when using the ProTank.
Have been smoking American Spirits medium for a long time. I have also smoked pipe and cigars. Dunhill, Davidoff, John Aylesbury pipe tobacco = amazing flavors; Partagas, EP Carrillo, Churchill, Fuente Fuente Forbidden X and other similar cigars = amazing flavors; bold, distinctive, memorable, layered and complex flavors. Amazing.
Have been smoking American Spirits medium for a long time. I have also smoked pipe and cigars. Dunhill, Davidoff, John Aylesbury pipe tobacco = amazing flavors; Partagas, EP Carrillo, Churchill, Fuente Fuente Forbidden X and other similar cigars = amazing flavors; bold, distinctive, memorable, layered and complex flavors. Amazing.
But to answer your questions:
1) People often mention that since they stopped smoking analogs, they do not want to vape anything that resembles cigarettes/tobacco. I happened to love the flavor of tobacco, so I am not interested in fruit/desert vapes, though I did like Roar Vapor's Strapple Serum, JV's Ecto Plasma and a few others. Want2Vape and MOV have awesome coffee flavors. Clearly, when it comes to food-based flavors, there are many great juices out there with bold, distinctive and memorable flavors, but for some reason, probably because most people are not interested in tobacco flavors, tobacco juices are lagging behind food-based flavors.
That having been said, I am not looking for a vape that isolates a specific tobacco. I am simply looking for a real pipe or cigar tobacco flavor, like Devil Dog, London or Paris, for example, but stronger and more complex. In my opinion, throat hit and vapor production aside, the only difference between those three is their peatiness. There is nothing else going on there. The flavor is one demential and "flat," if you will.
2)Ideally, when it comes to a flavor profile, I do not see why a tobacco vape cannot be the same or better than the real pipe or cigar tobaccos I have mentioned above, or even analogs, such as Rothmans International, original Kent and John Player Special.
In fact, I would think that, given the amount of flavors available, it would be relatively easy to replicate, say, Davidoff's flavor or any other real tobacco flavor for that matter. Compared to real tobacco, liquid flavors allow for a lot more flexibility and virtually limitless possibilities, but it does take expertise. You cannot just wing it, you need to be a very good chemist to do it right.
No disrespect, but I bet most people, in a real blind test, would not be able to tell the difference either.
I believe I have a pretty good palate and I have some experience with blind testing food flavors. Blind testing is very tricky. Believe it or not, even professional chefs often have difficulties correctly identifying basic food flavors in a blind test. It is not as easy as it might seem.
Uh, you want to bet? Hell, I can identify those in blind smell tests and I would bet, even though I am not a betting man, that a lot of the vapers here could.
Okay, I still think you are missing the point that all of the ways you experience tobacco is though combustion. Are you still smoking? It's cool if you are, just curious.
I am glad you are being open to talking about this, but the best fruit desserts will never replicate fruit the way fruit is consumed normally.
Sure. How can we run a blind test over the net?
Not smoking. I am not sure I understand what you mean by this? Please elaborate. I was talking about flavor, not smoke/vapor production or anything else associated with smoking.
It depends. Are you talking about texture, moisture, etc or pure flavor? I am talking about pure flavor. I have tried some food flavorings that were more intense and had more layers of flavor than the real thing. I do not see why a good chemist cannot create a vape that would have a flavor profile equal or better than, say, a strawberry. I am talking about pure flavor and nothing else.
Last edited:
Given the juices that were listed, I could very easily tell the difference between them - most by smell as well but certainly by taste.
I think the smoking question came from the natural deadening of tastebuds when still smoking. It could be part of it.
One other thing that occurred to me while reading through the conversation - have you been drinking more water than normal or, rather, more water than when you smoked?
I ask because vaping dehydrates and, while running even slightly dehydrated for a period of time, can cause most of the sense of Taste to disappear temporarily. This is referred to as Vaper's Mouth (not surprisingly) - it deadens the taste buds pretty severely to where most juices seem to completely lose their flavor. It generally lasts a couple of weeks after rehydration has happened and, as far as I know, isn't permanent. There are a few posts on the forums here specifically about it.
That may be part of what you are experiencing as well.
of course, it could be any number of other things. I can only speak from my experience and say categorically that my experience is very different from what you are describing
Edit - its important to note that I am not taking a stab at you or anything similar. I am genuinely trying to help figure this out but, I don't have similar experiences to pull from...
I think the smoking question came from the natural deadening of tastebuds when still smoking. It could be part of it.
One other thing that occurred to me while reading through the conversation - have you been drinking more water than normal or, rather, more water than when you smoked?
I ask because vaping dehydrates and, while running even slightly dehydrated for a period of time, can cause most of the sense of Taste to disappear temporarily. This is referred to as Vaper's Mouth (not surprisingly) - it deadens the taste buds pretty severely to where most juices seem to completely lose their flavor. It generally lasts a couple of weeks after rehydration has happened and, as far as I know, isn't permanent. There are a few posts on the forums here specifically about it.
That may be part of what you are experiencing as well.
of course, it could be any number of other things. I can only speak from my experience and say categorically that my experience is very different from what you are describing
Edit - its important to note that I am not taking a stab at you or anything similar. I am genuinely trying to help figure this out but, I don't have similar experiences to pull from...
Last edited:
I also don't see the logic in comparing a food flavoring that is experienced at a much higher concentration directly as compared to what may be experienced in a vapor at a much lower, and therefore less saturated concentration... if that flavor being discussed isn't actually altered or changed by the heat which I'm sure some are.
The comparisons being made are analogous to what I used to hear about how an audio CD was the same or somehow better than an analog album... The claims were only made by those that didn't know, understand or hear the differences.
The comparisons being made are analogous to what I used to hear about how an audio CD was the same or somehow better than an analog album... The claims were only made by those that didn't know, understand or hear the differences.
I do not think I have mentioned anything about the color of a juice. I do not think it matters what color it is.
No, I have not. It is a DYI flavor, right?
Have not tried these either, but will order it tomorrow.Maybe RYO from Mom and Pop vapor shop will suit you, or even Straight-up from Moondrop. If those don't taste, ahem, memorable, then stick to Halo.
ProVari/ProTank, T3, brideless 510. I either ordered default ratios or 70/30 (PG/VG), 18 or 16 nicotine.
I got two sample packs of QnJ's juices today, have not tried them yet, and I will order Mom and Pop and Moondrop.
Thank you very much for your suggestions! I appreciate it.
I know you think this is true but, believe me or not, I can guarantee you it's not the case. After being away for over 12 hours today vaping on my eVod, I got home I grabbed an IGO-L that had juice in it from a couple days ago. I have over 30 juices in my rotation, and since I switch juices a lot I had no idea which was in it, or even if it was a tobacco. I could tell right away it was Cigarillo from HoL. These different NETs that you mentioned are as different to us NET vapers as chocolate, orange, and coffee. Since they are not different to you, you should seek a different direction. The current NET market isn't going to give you what you want, and like has been said they don't get more aggressive, yet.
As far as if a NET can replicate the pure flavor of the tobaccos they are extracted from, I say absolutely. I've smoked 3 cigars alongside juices made from them, and the flavor was near exact. The experience of course, was quite different, since one involved burning tobacco and the other vaporized liquid, but the flavor profile was the same. I smoke a premium cigar about every few weeks for that experience. I would say get some pg and your favorite tobacco blend and do an extraction, but the results still won't be equal to burning leaves.
Even though smoking provides an experience vaping can't, the reverse is also true. Maybe try finding and embracing vaping's benefits to smoking, and treat it like a seperate experience you may end up preferring.
Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2
Actually, it's the other way around in my experience. Most people who come off smoking are first and foremost looking to emulate the flavour of tobacco, I know I sure did. The other thing a lot of recently reformed smokers try and do is emulate the size and look of a cigarette.
After a few weeks or months as a reformed smoker lets go of the desire of seeking analog tobacco flavours and all the tactile familiarity that comes with smoking an analog. They start using devices that are less and less like cigarettes such as larger mods. They also often will start to move away from tobacco flavours as their taste buds re-adjust from the years and years of damage.
Those of us here participating in the Netty awards and in the Natural Tobacco thread are but some who actually love the tobacco flavours and have continued to long after they have quit smoking but that is not an exception. Many long term vapors still prefer tobacco over fruits and sweets. Perhaps it's the complexity and subtleties that tobacco can produce compared to say, peanut butter or sweet caramel sundae. It's not due to a desire to recapture old tobacco favourites necessarily as many users have now left analogs well behind and probably would dry heeve if they were forced to smoke a whole cigarette. Ironically, many NET lovers were never very familiar with all the different types of tobacco leaves, pipe and cigar blends. I sure wasn't. I smoked Benson and Hedges which apparently is a virginia, something I didn't know until I started vaping.
I would say that, for example, not being able to differentiate ahlusions vurley from Goodejuice's Patriot, or HHVs Huntsman from MOV's Southern Gentleman, would suggest user error and not any inherent similarity in all juices. I can actually smell what bottle of liquid has leaked if any of my bottles have leaked accidentally from a device or into my bag.
I fully understand what you mean by real blind tests but although there may be some wrong answers, on the whole I am sure most vapers would know, thereabouts, what juice they have vaped in a blind test. I think within specific lines of juices it might be difficult to decipher. I might have trouble telling Dragon's Fire apart from Legend in the HHV line of juices, but there is no way I am going to be unable to distinguish any ahlusion aromatics from HHV juices or Goodejuices from MOV juices.
So, in my view, it's well known that most users who come off analogs want tobacco flavours and it is in the area of tobacco extraction and flavour that continue to undergo technological developments and improvements. It is the continued wide reaching demand for good and realistic tobacco flavours that NETS have even evolved.
I've yet to see anyone try an extraction method of watermelon or lemon meringue pie.
I will also hazard a guess that while many e-liquid sites have a wide range of flavours where tobacco may make up only 20% of the variety, I would put a wager that the tobacco flavours are the most popular.
After a few weeks or months as a reformed smoker lets go of the desire of seeking analog tobacco flavours and all the tactile familiarity that comes with smoking an analog. They start using devices that are less and less like cigarettes such as larger mods. They also often will start to move away from tobacco flavours as their taste buds re-adjust from the years and years of damage.
Those of us here participating in the Netty awards and in the Natural Tobacco thread are but some who actually love the tobacco flavours and have continued to long after they have quit smoking but that is not an exception. Many long term vapors still prefer tobacco over fruits and sweets. Perhaps it's the complexity and subtleties that tobacco can produce compared to say, peanut butter or sweet caramel sundae. It's not due to a desire to recapture old tobacco favourites necessarily as many users have now left analogs well behind and probably would dry heeve if they were forced to smoke a whole cigarette. Ironically, many NET lovers were never very familiar with all the different types of tobacco leaves, pipe and cigar blends. I sure wasn't. I smoked Benson and Hedges which apparently is a virginia, something I didn't know until I started vaping.
I would say that, for example, not being able to differentiate ahlusions vurley from Goodejuice's Patriot, or HHVs Huntsman from MOV's Southern Gentleman, would suggest user error and not any inherent similarity in all juices. I can actually smell what bottle of liquid has leaked if any of my bottles have leaked accidentally from a device or into my bag.
I fully understand what you mean by real blind tests but although there may be some wrong answers, on the whole I am sure most vapers would know, thereabouts, what juice they have vaped in a blind test. I think within specific lines of juices it might be difficult to decipher. I might have trouble telling Dragon's Fire apart from Legend in the HHV line of juices, but there is no way I am going to be unable to distinguish any ahlusion aromatics from HHV juices or Goodejuices from MOV juices.
So, in my view, it's well known that most users who come off analogs want tobacco flavours and it is in the area of tobacco extraction and flavour that continue to undergo technological developments and improvements. It is the continued wide reaching demand for good and realistic tobacco flavours that NETS have even evolved.
I've yet to see anyone try an extraction method of watermelon or lemon meringue pie.
I will also hazard a guess that while many e-liquid sites have a wide range of flavours where tobacco may make up only 20% of the variety, I would put a wager that the tobacco flavours are the most popular.
Sure. How can we run a blind test over the net?
You can trust me, just as I trust you that you can't (though it's hard to believe). I, for quick traveling, use small prefilled LDPE 3 mL bottles that are all unlabeled of my favorite NETs. Why label them when I can smell the differences between them through the bottle?
Dan, if you can't smell the difference, maybe it's not the equipment or the juice, but you.
The reason I asked is twofold 1) If you are still smoking, you are doing a compare and contrast 2) If you are still smoking, your senses, i.e., smell and taste, will not be in tip top shape.
The "flavor" you're after comes from what? Tobacco, or the burning of tobacco? It's got to come from the burning of tobacco becasue you have already had the "pure flavor" of tobacco and it didn't suffice.
What is the pure flavor of pizza, or banana, chewing gum or even tobacco without "texture, moisture, etc." If that was the case, I'd be able to drink a pizza shake and be happy. I don't drink orange juice (unless it's practically so pulpy it would clog a straw), and even then, eating and drinking are not the same experiences, though they may incorporate the same "pure flavors."
The experience is half the battle.
Whether you know it or not, you asking for "pure flavor" is what you're getting, but you are comparing apples to oranges because I could argue that burning tobacco is not giving you "pure flavor," it's the pure flavor being burned.
What is the "real" flavor of tobacco? Does it come from chewing the leaves? Burning the leaves? Cased tobacco?
Maybe you meant the taste is "dark?"
Basically, yeah, but it is made from real tobacco. It's an absolute of tobacco. Actually, you could get a small dram of TA and add it to your other juices if you want. Ask Vapor Mizer about it. Word of caution: don't use more than a couple drops! Check this out http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...tobacco-absolute-net-redheaded-stepchild.html
Dan, I have seen your posts from around the forum and I have noticed that you don't jive with synthetics (or at least you don't think they taste like tobacco, which is understandable) or NETs (or at least you don't think they taste like tobacco, which is hard to understand). You may find this hard to believe, but you very well may need to try desserts/fruits/candy flavors more--you can get all the flavor shots you want. I have seen too many vapers begin by searching for tobacco, but soon realizing that tobacco is a thing of the past.
Try Atomic Cinnacide from Tasty Vapor
Once again, thanks for being cool about this.
Maybe it is me. I can smell the difference. It depends. Some do not have any smell or very little smell. What I have noticed is that if it does not smell like tobacco, it is not going to have a tobacco flavor when I vape it.
You might not be happy, but it is possible to get the taste of a pizza without actually eating a pizza. What is the pure flavor of pizza? Well, it depends on a pizza, but it is whatever you taste when you eat pizza.
I have a box of Jelly Bellies (50 individual flavors); lots of different flavors that taste amazingly similar to the real thing, such as bubble gum, Dr. Peppper, strawberry cheesecake, cantaloupe, tutti fruitti, Sunkist pink grapefruit, chocolate pudding, etc. Clearly there is a way to reproduce a flavor accurately, but in a complete different form.
Well, I suppose it can be argued that eating a pizza or a strawberry is not giving you a "pure flavor" of a pizza or a strawberry either. You can freeze dry, blend, juice, burn, bake, and boil a strawberry, too, which will probably alter its flavor, but most people know how it tastes from eating it.
I have a natural strawberry (and other fruits) essence at home that my wife uses to make cupcakes. It tastes exactly like a real strawberry, but it is in a liquid form. Is it the same as actually eating a strawberry? No, because the texture is missing, but if I just want to experience the "pure flavor" of a strawberry without actually eating a real strawberry, it works. We also have natural essences of different varieties of apples and plums, for example. So if they can accurately reproduce the "pure flavor" of a green apple and a golden apple, why is it unreasonable to expect that different flavors of tobaccos can also be reproduced? It is just a flavor, burning or not.
I do not see why all three cannot be recreated for vaping, but personally, I am interested in the flavor of a burning tobacco.
Oops, I am sorry about that. I forgot that I mentioned it. I just mentioned in in passing when describing the juice.
That's what I suspected. Burning tobacco is not the same as the taste of tobacco--it is the taste of burning tobacco--which are two different things. You will never vape an eliquid that tastes like burning tobacco just as I (or anyone else) will never eat a jellybean that tastes like eating a banana.
Last edited:
What are the names of the juices you talking about?
It is not that they do not reproduce the flavor of a real thing correctly, it is as if all these different tobacco juices that come from different vendors have only two bases, which results in a very "flat" flavor profile. One base has a real pipe/cigar profile, with its main characteristic being the flavor of a peat. The other base does not even taste like tobacco and does not have that pipe/cigar peat flavor. The taste variations within each base are barely noticeable. Sure, perhaps all these tobacco juices accurately reproduce the real taste of something, something generic, say, a pipe tobacco "A" and a cigar tobacco "B," but that real taste is generic, "flat" and one dimensional.
In other words, these are not quality brand flavors that made certain tobacco brands very popular and instantly recognizable, such as Dunhill, Partagas, Cohiba, Davidoff, and many others.
Maybe the following example will make it clear what I am trying to say: Sure, I can taste the difference between, say the Devil Dog and London, for example, but both have a "flat," one dimensional flavor profile to begin with and the difference in flavor is that one is peatier than the other. There is nothing else going on in there, in my opinion. There is no depth of flavor in either of them. It is as if they are using the same base. In sharp contrast to this, in my opinion, it is pretty much impossible to confuse Dunhill and Davidoff, for example. A newbie might not know which one is which and might not know the brand names, but the flavors are very distinct, memorable, bold, and multidimensional with a lot of depth.
Oh, I get it. That base that you are referring to is propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin.
Okay, after all of this, you all can keep at it, but Dan33 wants the taste of burning tobacco and I, as most others here, want the taste of tobacco as experienced through vaping. I got what I want and more.
Dan, I think you should reach out to some of these vendors--many of whom are hardcore tobacco enthusiasts--and see what they have to say about it.
Lastly, Dan, if you haven't read this, you MUST read it: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...scussion/206373-vapenstein-addo-scientia.html That post was written before a lot of advances in NET making, but that post, especially in your case, holds true.
Last edited:
I think we are getting into semantics now.
Would you also say that grilled meat is not the same as the taste of meat? Sure, meat can be boiled, grilled, deep fried, baked, etc. Meat can also be eaten raw. But the point is that whatever you do with it, there will be a flavor associated with it. And these days, virtually any flavor can be correctly replicated. It just takes skills.
Why not? What makes the flavor of a burning tobacco so special from all other flavors? As I type this, I am vaping Vape Dude's American Standard tobacco. I am baffled why it is called "America Standard" and why it is listed on their site as a tobacco flavor, but it does taste like burned maple syrup, which is how the flavor is described on the site. So...why burning maple syrup cab be correctly replicated as a vape and burning tobacco cannot?
London, Paris, Devil Dog and other similar pipe/cigar tobacco flavors do taste like smoking a pipe and a cigar, it is just that what they are replicating does not have an interesting flavor profile to begin with, but they do taste like burning tobacco. I have tried to explain this here.
It tastes like banana to me. It is not the same sensory experience as eating a banana, because the texture is missing, but the flavor is pretty much spot on.
Last edited:
Thanks, I have read it, but I probably need to read it again.
Side note: So I just vaped two new juices. High Octane and Full Throttle from Good Juice. To me, High Octane is very close to Halo's Torque 56. Again, it seems as if they are sharing the same base. And Full Throttle is similar to Torque 56 and High Octane. This is the first time I have come across a juice similar to Halo's, but again, three different juices, two different companies and yet the flavor is basically the same. I like the flavor, though I do not detect any tobacco flavors.
Edit: P.S. Funny, I guess I am not alone. Halo Torque 56 vs Goodejuice High Octane.
Last edited:
Those juices are definitely close and GeJ's Halo-like liquids are designed to be like Halo. That does not somehow speak to the legitimacy of "Patriot, Fire Cured Tobacco, Virginia, Baco, Legend, Smooth Criminal, White Beard, etc" tasting alike. Maybe it's your set-up, your palate, your coils, your wattage, or maybe it's not in the stars but, either which way, this ain't happening for you. Maybe you should become an elqiuid maker and see if you can make what your after; that's how a lot of vendors came into being. I applaud your search, but at some point you're going to have to take someone's word for it that has been doing this for awhile--there is no burning tobacco taste in eliquid. Why? Because the tobacco isn't being burned. Maybe you can burn some tobacco and then extract it? Yuck. I really wish you all the luck in finding what you are after.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
