The Palestinian & Israel Conflict
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If I've sounded disrespectful to you Southern Gent, I haven't meant to.. and I apologize for any offenses. I hope you forgive me as I have already forgiven you. As for me, I totally 'get' the whole spiritual nation/people thing in Ephesians. I have no problems with it.. I know who I am and what I am in Christ JESUS who rules and reigns INSIDE of me right now... and I hope we are 'caught up with Him soon and out of this current evil nasty world system if that is God's will. As long as it's God's will I've got no problems with anything.
I've done more 'studying' on the PHYSICAL covenant GOD made with Abraham and I think my scriptural evidence is compelling.. it's important to me also to rightly divide the word of truth and this is what I discovered;
When God said, "As for Me, My covenant is with you" (Gen 17:4), He was reminding Abraham of the unconditional aspects of His previous PHYSICAL NATION promises. He was NOT referring to spiritual descendants from other nations, but of the true believing Israelites... not the Spiritual Church, which is a spiritual nation.
Just consider this; Deuteronomy 30:
:1 So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all the nations where the LORD your God has banished you,
:2 and you return to the LORD your God and obey Him with all your heart and soul according to all that I command you today you and your sons,
:3 then the LORD your God will restore you from captivity and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the LORD your God has scattered you.
:5 And the LORD your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it; an He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers.
How can God possibly be addressing a latter day 'spiritual nation & peoples' when using such physical promises, terms & language?
Under the Old Covenant & Mosaic Law, national Israel faced many conditions, curses, punishments, national destruction, and slavery. They would surely be punished for their sins. Yet, after all of God's promised punishment would come to pass, He still promised national restoration! He still promised the land would be theirs. This is how I (and many others) interpret this...
It would have been best if Israel had freely chosen to repent and be restored; the other nations had mocked Yahweh God because of their sinfulness. However, as later prophets revealed, God would restore Israel, not because of their obedience, but because of His oath and the reputation of His name. Several prophets appealed to God to intervene and save Israel, not because of the covenant made at Sinai, but because of the covenant made to Abraham and the fathers. They understood the difference between the unconditional and conditional promises.
The resolution of these seemingly conflicting statements is found in Christ, the SEED of Abraham (Gen 12:3). In one function Christ BECAME national Israel and perfectly obeyed, thus securing even the "conditional" aspects of the old covenant! Matthew's statement, "Out of Egypt I have called my son," equated "national" Israel to "Jesus Christ" (Matthew 2:15). Therefore God will bless national Israel for 3 reasons (1) His promises to Abraham, (2) His own honor, and (3) Christ's obedience.
Off to bed! Good night all & God bless, regardless of your theology. (lol) Pray for the peace of Israel and for Christ's return for His people.. whoever we are, wherever we are. I wish I were in Israel right now! (lol)
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2 Kings 17:6
(6) In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.
(KJV)
When the Assyrians conquered the northern ten tribes of Israel and dispersed her population in the lands beyond the Euphrates, only the southern tribes of Judah and Benjamin remained in the Land of Promise. Though the house of Judah had not yet forsaken Him, God began to raise up prophets to warn the southern kingdom that she was headed for the same fate as her sister Israel.
Through these prophets, particularly Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Hosea, God gives us directions by which we can find where Israel lives in the last days. Remember, all the following directions must be understood from the vantage point of Jerusalem.
Jeremiah 3:12: "Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say: 'Return, backsliding Israel,' says the LORD."
Jeremiah 3:18: "In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given as an inheritance to your fathers."
Jeremiah 31:8: "Behold, I will bring them from the north country."
When Jeremiah prophesied—about a century after Israel went into captivity—Israel lived to the north, and even in the end time, the Israelites will still live primarily in the north. North alone, however, could be rather vague, so God adds more detail:
Hosea 11:10: "They shall walk after the Lord. He will roar like a lion. When He roars, then His sons shall come trembling from the west."
Hosea 12:1: "Ephraim [the leading tribe of Israel] feeds on the wind, and pursues the east wind [the east wind travels west]." This scripture implies that Israel migrated westward. Though this verse has a primarily spiritual meaning, its value as a clue to Israel's whereabouts is confirmed by
Isaiah 49:12: "Surely these shall come from afar; look! Those from the north and the west. . . ."
A line stretching from Jerusalem to the northwest cuts through much of Europe from Greece to the North Sea. Where along this line should we look for Israelites? We know that the line of David would continually rule over some part of the house of Israel (Jeremiah 33:17).
Psalm 89:20, 25: I have found My servant David. . . . Also I will set his hand over the sea."
David's dynasty would rule over a sea power somewhere to the north and west of Jerusalem.
Jeremiah 31:10: "Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, 'He who scattered Israel will gather him.'"
Isaiah 49:1, 3: "Listen, O coastlands, to Me, and take heed, you peoples from afar! . . . You are My servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified." (See also Isaiah 41:1, 8-9.)
Israel, headed by Ephraim, would inhabit islands and coastlands far from Jerusalem. This seems to eliminate any of the Mediterranean nations; they would be considered "near" to Jerusalem rather than "afar off." Now we are looking for a nation, dominating on the seas, living on islands and coastlands in the area of the North Sea. Are there any other clues?
Jeremiah 31:7: "For thus says the LORD: 'Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations; proclaim, give praise, and say, "O LORD , save Your people, the remnant of Israel."'"
In the end time, Israel is regarded as among the leaders of the world's nations. This narrows our search considerably. Yet, one bit of evidence still remains:
Genesis 49:22: "Joseph is a fruitful bough, a fruitful bough by a well; his branches run over the wall."
Isaiah 49:20: "The children you will have, after you have lost the others, will say again in your ears, 'The place is too small for me; give me a place where I may dwell.'"
These verses hint very strongly at colonization of other lands because of burgeoning population and prosperity. Though many nations have colonized other lands in the past, only the nations of northwestern Europe have done it to a great extent.
Do any nations fit all these criteria? Only one: Britain! We should be able to find Israelites, primarily of the half-tribes of Joseph, the birthright tribes, in Britain.
Anybody stating there are no longer any 'true blood' remnant Jewish people left in the World need to study the above scriptures carefully, as God clearly (and physically) states there are.
(6) In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.
(KJV)
When the Assyrians conquered the northern ten tribes of Israel and dispersed her population in the lands beyond the Euphrates, only the southern tribes of Judah and Benjamin remained in the Land of Promise. Though the house of Judah had not yet forsaken Him, God began to raise up prophets to warn the southern kingdom that she was headed for the same fate as her sister Israel.
Through these prophets, particularly Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Hosea, God gives us directions by which we can find where Israel lives in the last days. Remember, all the following directions must be understood from the vantage point of Jerusalem.
Jeremiah 3:12: "Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say: 'Return, backsliding Israel,' says the LORD."
Jeremiah 3:18: "In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given as an inheritance to your fathers."
Jeremiah 31:8: "Behold, I will bring them from the north country."
When Jeremiah prophesied—about a century after Israel went into captivity—Israel lived to the north, and even in the end time, the Israelites will still live primarily in the north. North alone, however, could be rather vague, so God adds more detail:
Hosea 11:10: "They shall walk after the Lord. He will roar like a lion. When He roars, then His sons shall come trembling from the west."
Hosea 12:1: "Ephraim [the leading tribe of Israel] feeds on the wind, and pursues the east wind [the east wind travels west]." This scripture implies that Israel migrated westward. Though this verse has a primarily spiritual meaning, its value as a clue to Israel's whereabouts is confirmed by
Isaiah 49:12: "Surely these shall come from afar; look! Those from the north and the west. . . ."
A line stretching from Jerusalem to the northwest cuts through much of Europe from Greece to the North Sea. Where along this line should we look for Israelites? We know that the line of David would continually rule over some part of the house of Israel (Jeremiah 33:17).
Psalm 89:20, 25: I have found My servant David. . . . Also I will set his hand over the sea."
David's dynasty would rule over a sea power somewhere to the north and west of Jerusalem.
Jeremiah 31:10: "Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, 'He who scattered Israel will gather him.'"
Isaiah 49:1, 3: "Listen, O coastlands, to Me, and take heed, you peoples from afar! . . . You are My servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified." (See also Isaiah 41:1, 8-9.)
Israel, headed by Ephraim, would inhabit islands and coastlands far from Jerusalem. This seems to eliminate any of the Mediterranean nations; they would be considered "near" to Jerusalem rather than "afar off." Now we are looking for a nation, dominating on the seas, living on islands and coastlands in the area of the North Sea. Are there any other clues?
Jeremiah 31:7: "For thus says the LORD: 'Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations; proclaim, give praise, and say, "O LORD , save Your people, the remnant of Israel."'"
In the end time, Israel is regarded as among the leaders of the world's nations. This narrows our search considerably. Yet, one bit of evidence still remains:
Genesis 49:22: "Joseph is a fruitful bough, a fruitful bough by a well; his branches run over the wall."
Isaiah 49:20: "The children you will have, after you have lost the others, will say again in your ears, 'The place is too small for me; give me a place where I may dwell.'"
These verses hint very strongly at colonization of other lands because of burgeoning population and prosperity. Though many nations have colonized other lands in the past, only the nations of northwestern Europe have done it to a great extent.
Do any nations fit all these criteria? Only one: Britain! We should be able to find Israelites, primarily of the half-tribes of Joseph, the birthright tribes, in Britain.
Anybody stating there are no longer any 'true blood' remnant Jewish people left in the World need to study the above scriptures carefully, as God clearly (and physically) states there are.
Last edited:
2 Kings 17:6
(6) In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.
(KJV)
When the Assyrians conquered the northern ten tribes of Israel and dispersed her population in the lands beyond the Euphrates, only the southern tribes of Judah and Benjamin remained in the Land of Promise. Though the house of Judah had not yet forsaken Him, God began to raise up prophets to warn the southern kingdom that she was headed for the same fate as her sister Israel.
Through these prophets, particularly Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Hosea, God gives us directions by which we can find where Israel lives in the last days. Remember, all the following directions must be understood from the vantage point of Jerusalem.
Jeremiah 3:12: "Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say: 'Return, backsliding Israel,' says the LORD."
Jeremiah 3:18: "In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given as an inheritance to your fathers."
Jeremiah 31:8: "Behold, I will bring them from the north country."
When Jeremiah prophesiedabout a century after Israel went into captivityIsrael lived to the north, and even in the end time, the Israelites will still live primarily in the north. North alone, however, could be rather vague, so God adds more detail:
Hosea 11:10: "They shall walk after the Lord. He will roar like a lion. When He roars, then His sons shall come trembling from the west."
Hosea 12:1: "Ephraim [the leading tribe of Israel] feeds on the wind, and pursues the east wind [the east wind travels west]." This scripture implies that Israel migrated westward. Though this verse has a primarily spiritual meaning, its value as a clue to Israel's whereabouts is confirmed by
Isaiah 49:12: "Surely these shall come from afar; look! Those from the north and the west. . . ."
A line stretching from Jerusalem to the northwest cuts through much of Europe from Greece to the North Sea. Where along this line should we look for Israelites? We know that the line of David would continually rule over some part of the house of Israel (Jeremiah 33:17).
Psalm 89:20, 25: I have found My servant David. . . . Also I will set his hand over the sea."
David's dynasty would rule over a sea power somewhere to the north and west of Jerusalem.
Jeremiah 31:10: "Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, 'He who scattered Israel will gather him.'"
Isaiah 49:1, 3: "Listen, O coastlands, to Me, and take heed, you peoples from afar! . . . You are My servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified." (See also Isaiah 41:1, 8-9.)
Israel, headed by Ephraim, would inhabit islands and coastlands far from Jerusalem. This seems to eliminate any of the Mediterranean nations; they would be considered "near" to Jerusalem rather than "afar off." Now we are looking for a nation, dominating on the seas, living on islands and coastlands in the area of the North Sea. Are there any other clues?
Jeremiah 31:7: "For thus says the LORD: 'Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations; proclaim, give praise, and say, "O LORD , save Your people, the remnant of Israel."'"
In the end time, Israel is regarded as among the leaders of the world's nations. This narrows our search considerably. Yet, one bit of evidence still remains:
Genesis 49:22: "Joseph is a fruitful bough, a fruitful bough by a well; his branches run over the wall."
Isaiah 49:20: "The children you will have, after you have lost the others, will say again in your ears, 'The place is too small for me; give me a place where I may dwell.'"
These verses hint very strongly at colonization of other lands because of burgeoning population and prosperity. Though many nations have colonized other lands in the past, only the nations of northwestern Europe have done it to a great extent.
Do any nations fit all these criteria? Only one: Britain! We should be able to find Israelites, primarily of the half-tribes of Joseph, the birthright tribes, in Britain.
Anybody stating there are no longer any 'true blood' remnant Jewish people left in the World need to study the above scriptures carefully, as God clearly (and physically) states there are.
As I have stated before, my daddy was a full blooded Jew. He was half Russian and half Polish, but both of his parents were Jews. There are quite a few full blooded Jews in town. There are many everywhere, if you'd stop and take a census. If I'm not mistaken, one of the tribes migrated to China. I'm not sure which tribe, though.
As everyone has said before, when God says 'forever' He means 'forever.' As far as knowing which tribe my father was in, I have no idea. One day I will know. How anyone can say there aren't any more full blooded Jews is beyond me. They need to stop and smell the coffee. Talking against the 'chosen' would make me very careful. Wouldn't want to get zapped. Plus, I don't understand how someone can stand up and declare that God is a liar! That is blasphemous! I'm not trying to make any enemies here, but truth is truth. I would be very very careful.
I just noticed that people were still responding to this thread. I believe that God knows exactly who are the Jews today--and where they are. I disagree with SG's assessment that there are no full-blooded Jews left although I know that there are those who married outside of the faith. There were others who hid that they were Jewish after the Holocaust. God knows where they are. And many of them are returning to the Biblical lands. To believe otherwise is to buy into what is called "replacement theology". This is where members of the church claim that the Jews forfeited their inheritance when they crucified Jesus although God's covenant with Abraham was that Abraham and his seed would inherit it forever. God is omniscient--He knew before the creation of man that man would sin against Him, He knew that He would have to offer a sacrifice on their behalf, He knew that He would have to become man to atone for their sins. Having the Jewish leaders call for the crucifixion of Christ had already been seen. Why would He punish them for what He already knew would happen?
Any doubts of His intentions can be read in Ezekiel 36:22-38.
Any doubts of His intentions can be read in Ezekiel 36:22-38.
I would also add that if any proof needed that Israel is home once again to the Jews need only look at the violence with which Satan and his minions have attacked that tiny country since its rebirth.
That's it Chimney! That's the word I couldn't think of previously... 'Replacement theology!'.. (lol) Thank you!
There you have it! So simple.. so succinct!
I also think one only has to look at the incredible, borderline miraculous FACT that Israel is once again a Nation (1948) since they were exiled in 135 C.E.. (or something like that).
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