The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)

[kuritaro9]

Yes, SmoklessImage Volt RY4 and Bloog RY4 (which I personally regard as identical juices) are both terrific. I always shake my head a little at the fact of vendors whose target market is largely inexperienced, first-time vapers selling RY4s that are among the very best Chinese Classics ever made. That irony notwithstanding, both RY4s deserve all the praise they get on this thread.

I always wonder which major Chinese juice manufacturer makes them for Bloog and SI---Dekang, joyetech, etc.---because they're actually better than the proprietary RY4s sold under any of those companies' labels.

i didnt think i would find something that i liked as much as the apollo RY4, but dayum. this SI stuff is the heat. i "need" to resist the urge to order a metric asston of this stuff. i just have too many juices to get through before i can justify ordering more, but my finger is a' hovering over BUY...haha

 

[Cool_Breeze]

i didnt think i would find something that i liked as much as the apollo RY4, but dayum. this SI stuff is the heat. i "need" to resist the urge to order a metric asston of this stuff. i just have too many juices to get through before i can justify ordering more, but my finger is a' hovering over BUY...haha

I hear you on 'too many juices,' though I have but a few. I keep returning to my go-to (DIY +/- 50/50 RY4D/W2V RY4) and rotate in and out some others. Still I have some that have been sitting a while. They are good, but I never seem to get to them, rather return to my go-to perhaps too frequently. At times, my vapes are too much in the same general flavor realm...RY4 or some variant there of, and getting farther away could make me appreciate them more. The flavor change aspect of vaping is interesting. While I've longed to adopt a pattern, the urge/need to flavor change keeps things a bit unsettled. I do want to pick up some of the SI/Bloog at some point, but that won't be for a while.

 

[Sero]

I got some TW Patriot Range RY4 in. It is pretty unique. I like it as a good "change up" RY4. Nothing offputting in it and I can vape it all day if I need too. I don't taste any one flavor, seems melded together and subtle. Has a sweetener type sweetness. There is this lemon-y finish to it though. I read that DK RY4 has that lemon-y sourness too. I have not trying the DK, are these similar tasting juices?

 

[billherbst]

I got some TW Patriot Range RY4 in. It is pretty unique. I like it as a good "change up" RY4. Nothing offputting in it and I can vape it all day if I need too. I don't taste any one flavor, seems melded together and subtle. Has a sweetener type sweetness. There is this lemon-y finish to it though. I read that DK RY4 has that lemon-y sourness too. I have not trying the DK, are these similar tasting juices?

Sero,

I just vaped them both side-by-side. Yes, there is a resemblance, but the TW Patriot RY4 is definitely sweeter overall in a flattened sort of way. The Janty RY4 DK has more of the sour-sweet contrast/highlights. I taste a very slight lemon-y citrus in both on the inhale, which dissipates by exhale. Also, both of them do the Classic profile unified flavor thing nicely.

 

[billherbst]

Wonder of wonders, I’m actually closing in on making really good DIY Classic RY4. I mixed two new recipes this morning, and they’re the best yet:

Classic RY4 version 11:
6ml bottle
3.3% (4 drops) TobaccoExpress Tobacco Super-Concentrate
2.5% (3 drops) Want2Vape Honeycomb Caramel flavoring
1.7% (2 drops) TFA Bavarian Cream flavoring
base blend (PG/VG) and liquid nic according to user preference

Classic RY4 version 12:
6ml bottle
4.2% (5 drops) Seedman’s Light Cigarette Concentrate
0.8% (1 drop) Seedman’s Commercial Cigarette Concentrate
Optional: use 5.0% (6 drops) of Light Cig Concentrate and omit the 1 drop of Commercial Cig.
2.5% (3 drops) Lorann Creamy Caramel flavoring
1.7% (2 drops) TFA Bavarian Cream flavoring
base blend (PG/VG) and liquid nic according to user preference

What I’m finding is that the choice of synthetic tobacco is critical. It must be pleasing but neutral---middle-of-the-road and a bit indistinct in flavor. This is one case where nondescript and generic are perfect. Specific types of cured tobaccos---such as Virginia, Burley, Latakia, Perique, etc.---don’t work well. They stand out, calling attention to themselves too much and disrupting the balance and unity. Those and other specialty tobaccos---cigar or pipe tobaccos, such as English Cavendish---might be fine for a Custom RY4, but not Classic. Also, any synthetic tobacco flavoring that aims to emulate Marlboro or Camel is horrid.

On the other hand, the particular caramel and vanilla used are not so important---numerous different versions of those flavors from various manufacturers can work well, as long as they harmonize and blend nicely. Chinese or American, the country of origin doesn’t seem to matter much, if at all, for the caramel and vanilla. What does matter is the percentage of flavoring---which must be extremely low---and the mix---which must result in a balanced, unified taste, where no individual flavoring stands out.

Many types of vanilla are available. All are variations on a complex theme, since vanilla is definitely not a simple flavor. French Vanilla is a bit too rich, and Vanilla Custard doesn’t work, but Bavarian Cream seems to be fine. I like it better for this purpose than straight vanilla.

In the very best retail Classic RY4s, the individual flavorings are nearly impossible to pick out and identify. The palate and brain can discern only the overall flavor of the three ingredients melded into one: RY4.

These new recipes don’t use any optional sour ingredient. I grew disenchanted with Lorann Tart and Sour because it’s a blend of malic acid and citric acid in a PG base. That product imparts a slight citrus flavor that reminds some vapers (including me) of fruit. At least a couple well-known and highly-rated RY4s have a slight lemony side taste---Janty RY4 DK and Totally Wicked Patriot Range RY4, specifically. The citrus in Tart and Sour kept messing up my mixes, however, so I finally had to ditch it.

I’ve ordered some TFA Sour, which is pure malic acid in a 10% dilution using a PG base. That should impart sourness with no flavor at all. When it arrives, I’ll start playing with it to see if I can achieve a good sour-sweet contrast. A single drop will probably be sufficient for a 6ml bottle.

In the meantime, both of the two recipes above are quite good.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Wonder of wonders, I’m actually closing in on making really good DIY Classic RY4. I mixed two new recipes this morning, and they’re the best yet:, etc.

Bill - Some consider Hangsen RY1 as a suitable tobacco flavoring. I consider it quite dry and think it could benefit from some tweaking.

Have you tried RY1? Might RY1 be an appropriate tobacco for an RY4 mix?

 

[STiTRON]

I can't find the backwoods brew ry4

 

[billherbst]

Bill - Some consider Hangsen RY1 as a suitable tobacco flavoring. I consider it quite dry and think it could benefit from some tweaking. Have you tried RY1? Might RY1 be an appropriate tobacco for an RY4 mix?

Cool,

I haven't tried the Hangsen RY1 flavoring, nor the RY3. If you try it, let us know the skinny.

Since I'm interested in making RY4 from scratch, I tend to lean away from any tobacco flavoring with the "RY" label, implying that it has more ingredients than just tobacco.

 

[billherbst]

I can't find the backwoods brew ry4

BWB RY4 was discontinued quite awhile ago. Unless you happen to find an aging bottle for sale in the Classifieds (not likely), it's gone gone gone.

 

[RPadTV]

I've been vaping Bill's Pretty Good Classic RY4 for the last few hours and been thoroughly enjoying it.It's a nice blend that reminds me of some of my favorite classic RY4s. There is a stronger top note (that I can't identify...perhaps the vanilla?) on the inhale, but it disappears when it's in your mouth/lungs and you'd never know it was there on the exhale. On the exhale I'm tasting more of the tobacco. Of course these are only my impressions after a few hours. First take: This is more than pretty good.

Thanks for your efforts on this juice and this excellent thread Bill!

 

[Kent C]

I've never tasted anything close to the original janty RY4. I've never tasted the smokey, musky, piney main flavor in anything else. The caramel cream part shouldn't be too hard to duplicate. And the other mystery exhale taste has been described in a variety of ways, some seemingly diametrically opposed.

If I were DIYing it, I'd try mesquite for the smokiness - DV's Habana Reserve has that in it, and some pine flavoring that isn't oil based and that doesn't taste or smell like pine needles but the pollen from the cones - that's the musty taste. For the mystery flavor, I'd go with some chinese herb or spice. The other 'tobacco' flavors use either one or two flavors of something plus the tobacco, to my taste - "marlboro" adds coconut and vanilla, "kent" - vanilla, camel and hilton - chocolate, 555 - peanuts, flu cured - almond and sometimes wintergreen, Lucky Strike - cinnamon, etc. etc. So I'm thinking that for the 'ruyan' flavor they went 'chinese' - ginger, 5 spices, star anise, lotus, not soy ...and there is likely some tobacco absolute in there as well, but for me it was masked by the smoke (ruyan is the chinese word for smoke) and pine cone pollen.

Again, this is janty only.....early janty/joye line.

 

[billherbst]

I've never tasted anything close to the original janty RY4. I've never tasted the smokey, musky, piney main flavor in anything else. The caramel cream part shouldn't be too hard to duplicate. And the other mystery exhale taste has been described in a variety of ways, some seemingly diametrically opposed.

If I were DIYing it, I'd try mesquite for the smokiness - DV's Habana Reserve has that in it, and some pine flavoring that isn't oil based and that doesn't taste or smell like pine needles but the pollen from the cones - that's the musty taste. For the mystery flavor, I'd go with some chinese herb or spice. The other 'tobacco' flavors use either one or two flavors of something plus the tobacco, to my taste - "marlboro" adds coconut and vanilla, "kent" - vanilla, camel and hilton - chocolate, 555 - peanuts, flu cured - almond and sometimes wintergreen, Lucky Strike - cinnamon, etc. etc. So I'm thinking that for the 'ruyan' flavor they went 'chinese' - ginger, 5 spices, star anise, lotus, not soy ...and there is likely some tobacco absolute in there as well, but for me it was masked by the smoke (ruyan is the chinese word for smoke) and pine cone pollen.

Again, this is janty only.....early janty/joye line.

Wow, Kent. That's not just a post, it's an abstract for a vaping doctoral thesis. While I have in my stash most of the (Dekang) tobacco blends you mention---Marlboro, Kent, Hilton, Flue-Cured, and 555, but no Lucky Strike---I didn't vape much of them before they were relegated to long-term storage. That may have had to do with when I started vaping (October, 2010). Around that time, the initial wave of American artisan juice vendors was rolling in. By mid-2011, I had moved on from most Chinese juices and was already getting into NETs.

Having saturated myself with NETs by now, I've begun vaping some synthetic tobaccos again. FastTech's low prices and free shipping seduced me to buy most of the Liqua Italian line of tobaccos---30ml bottles of Traditional, Bright, French Pipe, Cigar, and Cubana---and I just ordered a 30ml bottle of Dekang Desert Ship (all I have is two-year-old Dekang labeled "Camel"), because Dekang is now describing the ingredients as all-natural, meaning TA probably. So I wanted to try it again and see if it's changed.

Mostly, however, my Chinese tobaccos are limited to Classic RY4s, which lean, of course, a little to the TINO side ("Tobacco In Name Only").

I have no experience with "pine cone pollen." Does it taste different than more standard pine? Personally, my palate rebels against pine, with my brain then shouting "Pine Sol Cleaner, yuk!" That's why I'm not a fan of many of the BWB tobaccos with their pronounced pineyness. I have the same reaction to want2vape Cold Infusion Cigar. I've never associated pine with Janty RY4, but that doesn't mean that you're wrong. Maybe I don't react negatively to the muskier flavor of pine cone pollen.

I haven't got any mesquite or the Chinese spice flavorings you mentioned---5-spice, anise, lotus. I do have absinthe, but that's an anise-laced liqueur. Even if I did have the flavorings, I'd probably need you standing next to me when I tried to mix those flavorings into a Classic RY4. Otherwise, I'd just be randomly throwing spaghetti against the wall to see what sticks.

Thanks for posting, though. You've obviously given this some thought.

 

[billherbst]

Kent, a couple more questions and thoughts.

Are you referring to older bottles of Janty RY4 that you still have from way back when? Ludo has stated unequivocally that Janty RY4 DK is the original, first-ever Janty RY4 formula that was marketed from 2007 through 2009. That's what I have---RY4 DK---and the vintage is about a year old. I'm curious whether your post is based on liquids you've vaped recently or more on memories of liquids vaped long ago.

Also, you didn't mention anything about sourness. Our English correspondent, Zombitedesade, was the first person on this thread to mention that Janty uses a sour-sweet counterbalancing, with the sourness contrasting with and actually highlighting the juice's sweetness. In the bottle I have of Janty RY4 DK (which is eight months old), that sourness has a lemony citrus tone. The Janty RY4 Classic I have (which is fairly new, only four months old) is calmer, with less sourness and no citrus at all. Then the sourness comes roaring back in my bottle of RY4 Elixir (now almost two years old), which has a straight, potent sourness counterbalanced against a punched-up sweetness.

I just received a bottle of TPA/TFA Sour, which is pure malic acid diluted at 20% in a base of PG. I had been using Lorann Tart & Sour, which is a combination of malic and citric acids diluted in PG, but the citrus in that produces a slightly more fruity effect than I like for an RY4. As I say, however, Janty RY4 DK has a very subtle but clearly discernible hint of lemon, so who knows what Janty is/was using in that recipe. Like vanilla, lemon is a flavor with many different types that vary widely and even wildly.

It's a shame we can't all get together and comparison-vape our different bottles of the same juice, to see two things: 1. Whether we taste the same elements in a given bottle, and 2. Whether different bottles of the same labeled juice taste the same, similar, or different. That might clear up a lot of mysteries right there.

Of course, differing nic strengths is a monkey wrench in that fantasy, since nic concentration does probably affect the overall flavor profile, and also since each vaper is most accustomed to and comfortable with his/her particular nic strength. Oh well... Never mind. We'll make do with what we've got, which is anecdotal reports from the field.

 

[Kent C]

Bill,

Wow, Kent. That's not just a post, it's an abstract for a vaping doctoral thesis.

Well, just some observations along the way and yes - mainly dekang flavorings (on the added 'notes') but then the US vendors 'kept the standard' for the most part, at first.....

While I have in my stash most of the (Dekang) tobacco blends you mention---Marlboro, Kent, Hilton, Flue-Cured, and 555, but no Lucky Strike---I didn't vape much of them before they were relegated to long-term storage. That may have had to do with when I started vaping (October, 2010). Around that time, the initial wave of American artisan juice vendors was rolling in. By mid-2011, I had moved on from most Chinese juices and was already getting into NETs.

I lost to a large extent my taste for tobacco in vaping except for the Habana Reserve and even that is a non-tobacco tobacco. Nick O'Teen (Peter) of Decadent Vapours set out to make a tobacco flavor without using any tobacco absolute and with mesquite, some black pepper and other herbs/spices came up with a pretty good one imo. It's a complex flavor which is what I like about it. Some don't get the 'tobacco' part but still like it. And at the time, for me, it was a break from the sweetness of the dekang/dekang based stuff.

Mostly, however, my Chinese tobaccos are limited to Classic RY4s, which lean, of course, a little to the TINO side ("Tobacco In Name Only").

Exactly.... which is why some were tolerable at the time Lucky Strike was part of that janty/joye line without an analogous flavor in the regular dekang line as far as I know. Flu Cured dk had more tobacco flavoring than most of the other stuff, imo. It was a good juice but they've changed it. And the dekang Ruyan #4 was only similar to the janty/joye line in the caramel cream part and even then it was more upfront than the janty which had the smokey pine up front - not as much as RY2 though - the RY4 was more 'balanced'. Imo, and it's subjective to a point except when you find someone with the same palate .... but Janty's RY3 was closer to dekang Ruyan #4 where the caramel cream was dominant. For me, RY1 was RY2 lite lol.... some smoke and some caramel but dialed way back.

I have no experience with "pine cone pollen." Does it taste different than more standard pine? Personally, my palate rebels against pine, with my brain then shouting "Pine Sol Cleaner, yuk!" That's why I'm not a fan of many of the BWB tobaccos with their pronounced pineyness. I have the same reaction to want2vape Cold Infusion Cigar. I've never associated pine with Janty RY4, but that doesn't mean that you're wrong. Maybe I don't react negatively to the muskier flavor of pine cone pollen.

I'm with you on pine sol and no, it's nothing like that, nor like any of the pine scents in various products. Actually the scent reminds me of an ingredient is some men's colone - like english leather or canoe from decades back... but it's a bit musky. In fact I have some Eastern pines in the yard so that's how I know the type of cone pollen.... it's close... And this is along with the smokey flavor which hit up front.

I haven't got any mesquite or the Chinese spice flavorings you mentioned---5-spice, anise, lotus. I do have absinthe, but that's an anise-laced liqueur. Even if I did have the flavorings, I'd probably need you standing next to me when I tried to mix those flavorings into a Classic RY4. Otherwise, I'd just be randomly throwing spaghetti against the wall to see what sticks.

The offer to send you some still stands. It may have lost some nic strength (originally 11mg) but most of the flavor notes are still there and you very well may not like it It was one of those 'love/hate' flavors as you likely know from your own research but it still held up well with all the 'what's your favorite flavor' threads at the time. No. 1 on many.... And that 'mystery note' was an after taste type of thing... I thought ginger from what I said above, but some tasted raspberry? which I don't like, marshmallow, cotton candy (in addition to the caramel). It actually smells that way - cotton candy - but I didn't get it in the taste.... but it could be the 5 spice or star anise... there's a different flavor for some - some taste like straight black licorice and others are more subtle or just different. DV's Absinthe was my no. 2 vape for a while and quite complex as well. The ginger ejuice I've tried doesn't quite fit the note, imo. And that part could be the most subjective aspect.

Thanks for posting, though. You've obviously given this some thought.

Well, "I was you" at one point in time - tried to duplicate it in DIY...unsuccessfully - although I know more now than then (I DIY all the DV stuff now....), then just ended up buying a bunch of it from 'the Widow' Widows Bead Work E-cigarette Store (Monique) and from Happy Vapers (Jack ...canada) who had some supplies and 0 nic stuff for quite a while after the janty/joye line was shut down.

 

[Kent C]

Kent, a couple more questions and thoughts.

Are you referring to older bottles of Janty RY4 that you still have from way back when?

Yes... the latest was from Happy Vapers but it was still the same janty/joye line of ejuices. Exactly the same but in different bottles - I got that on high source from someone who handled both the janty bottling and the joye bottling. And it was 'known' by many at the time... Just Julie, Elendil, eg. - also Janty RY4 fans... Just Julie was the one that put me on to it - now over 4 years ago One of my best 'return gifts' was when I sent Julie some Habana Reserve and it became her no. 1 vape! ...years later.

Ludo has stated unequivocally that Janty RY4 DK is the original, first-ever Janty RY4 formula that was marketed from 2007 through 2009. That's what I have---RY4 DK---and the vintage is about a year old. I'm curious whether your post is based on liquids you've vaped recently or more on memories of liquids vaped long ago.

I've had the new one as well. Again, I'll repeat what I said earlier -that the 'same formula' for flavoring doesn't mean the 'same ejuice'. His comment was that he had Mik mix some vg/pg with the same formula... not a quote but the original RY4 was PG only and as you know that can make a difference. Even so, I don't get the same smokey pine notes from the newer version than the older one. Perhaps the flavorings while named the same aren't. lol... edit here: another thing is wattage which can really affect flavor. At the time, we had 510 (2.2-2.3Ω), 801(3.5Ω) and 901 (3.7Ω) on 3.4 to 3.7V batts. Nowhere near the range we have today and different wattages are going to bring out (or suppress) different flavor notes.

Also, you didn't mention anything about sourness. Our English correspondent, Zombitedesade, was the first person on this thread to mention that Janty uses a sour-sweet counterbalancing, with the sourness contrasting with and actually highlighting the juice's sweetness. In the bottle I have of Janty RY4 DK (which is eight months old), that sourness has a lemony citrus tone. The Janty RY4 Classic I have (which is fairly new, only four months old) is calmer, with less sourness and no citrus at all. Then the sourness comes roaring back in my bottle of RY4 Elixir (now almost two years old), which has a straight, potent sourness counterbalanced against a punched-up sweetness.

For me, it's the musky pine (not pine sol pine ;- ) that is the balance to the caramel cream. No hint of citrus or lemon for me....

I just received a bottle of TPA/TFA Sour, which is pure malic acid diluted at 20% in a base of PG. I had been using Lorann Tart & Sour, which is a combination of malic and citric acids diluted in PG, but the citrus in that produces a slightly more fruity effect than I like for an RY4. As I say, however, Janty RY4 DK has a very subtle but clearly discernible hint of lemon, so who knows what Janty is/was using in that recipe. Like vanilla, lemon is a flavor with many different types that vary widely and even wildly.


It's a shame we can't all get together and comparison-vape our different bottles of the same juice, to see two things: 1. Whether we taste the same elements in a given bottle, and 2. Whether different bottles of the same labeled juice taste the same, similar, or different. That might clear up a lot of mysteries right there.

It may or may not.... the subjectiveness of taste is a certainty and in some cases it's genetic.. recall the "litmus taste test' in jr. high science ... perhaps they don't do that now.... that's more about the 'bitter buds' but some mistake bitter for sour...and visa versa.

Of course, differing nic strengths is a monkey wrench in that fantasy, since nic concentration does probably affect the overall flavor profile, and also since each vaper is most accustomed to and comfortable with his/her particular nic strength. Oh well... Never mind. We'll make do with what we've got, which is anecdotal reports from the field.

Depending on strength, nic can be a big factor in taste. I can tell the difference in 11mg and 18mg by taste in my regular flavors which I've vaped regularly now for close to 3 years. Habana Reserve is my 'constant' for testing clearos of various types and voltages on my Twists. I really should send you some of the old stuff... PM me your address.. my dime on postage.... and I have enough to spare - I'm really not vaping it anymore and haven't went to classifieds because it is 2+ years old. I did send some out to a few who wanted to try it.

 

[RPadTV]

I've read some great things about Vapor4Life Jammin', which is sadly unavailable. Anyone try V4L's WOW RY4 or Nobacco RY4? I was thinking of giving them a shot.

 

[billherbst]

I've read some great things about Vapor4Life Jammin', which is sadly unavailable. Anyone try V4L's WOW RY4 or Nobacco RY4? I was thinking of giving them a shot.

RP,

I would never have ordered V4L Jammin' had Passerbyeus not raved about it here on the thread. And he was right, it's great stuff. Not too long after I got my 30ml bottle, Jammin' was discontinued.

I haven't tried either of the other two V4L RY4s. If you get some of either, post a review and we'll get it/them on The Big List, linked to your review(s). Same applies for anyone else who might try one or both of those. We are an Equal Opportunity Thread.

 

[Randy C]

I went out on a limb... I just received my first order from Goodejuice. I have 18mg GJ4 and Patriot steeping in a cool dark place- for at least a week or two.

The GJ4 smells EXACTLY like Cooper Creek House Blend, but with tobacco (something I wish CC would offer) and the Patriot, although not and RY4 variant, gives off a wonderful tobacco aroma.

 

[billherbst]

I went out on a limb... I just received my first order from Goodejuice. I have 18mg GJ4 and Patriot steeping in a cool dark place- for at least a week or two. The GJ4 smells EXACTLY like Cooper Creek House Blend, but with tobacco (something I wish CC would offer) and the Patriot, although not and RY4 variant, gives off a wonderful tobacco aroma.

Randy (and all),

If we give Tobacco Absolute its own category, separate from what we’ve come to call NETs (Naturally-Extracted Tobacco flavorings, produced in-house by maceration---either cold-infused or heat-brewed---steam distillation, etc.), then GoodEJuice GJ4 was probably the third retail NET-based Custom RY4 to appear in the marketplace. I ordered my 30ml bottle in December 2011, soon after it was offered on the GeJ site.

First, of course, was VapeRite VR4, which won Vapenstein’s Best RY4 of 2010 award. Next was PrimeVaping PV4 in mid-2011, which may be an NET/TA hybrid for all I know. (The much-missed BackwoodsBrew RY4 might have claimed one of those spots, but we’ll never know, since Don wouldn’t divulge whether or not it was an NET…).

That was back before the current wave of NET-based Custom RY4s hit the marketplace over the past year: MOV Full Virginia Flake RY4, QuickNic ouR whY Qu4tro, and MyVapeJuice Rogue RY4. (Although Ahlusion calls Gold Rising its take on RY4, that juice, while very tasty, pushes the flavor envelope too far to be called an RY4, at least by our standards on this thread.)

You may know all that already, but I thought I’d chime in, since I’m sort of the Public Librarian for RY4s.

-----

As for CopperCreek, I love CC Cake and CC Cappuccino. What wonderful juices those are! House Blend is CC’s big winner, of course---another of the very popular “mystery juices” (think AVE Boba’s Bounty, NLV Bounty Hunter, and a couple others that aren't embraced quite so mythically---MisterELiquid Grey Matter, for instance).

I was unimpressed, however, by CopperCreek’s tobacco blends (Twisted Tobacco and Voodoo). My reaction was that perhaps CC’s master herbalist/juicemistress should stick with what she does best. Just my opinion, though. Many fans of CC love Twisted Tobacco and Voodoo.

The thought never occurred to me that CC House Blend and GJ4 were similar. In the spirit of your post---where you wonder how House Blend would taste with an added tobacco element---I just Frankenjuiced 1ml of House blend with 1ml of my own home-brewed Skydancer NET DIY juice. The result may be a bit too sweet for my tastes. Skydancer NET is mild and has its own natural sweetness, so a punchier and less sweet tobacco---whether synthetic or natural---might produce a more pleasing result paired with House Blend's sweetness. Perhaps something like GeJ Wild Turkey or Fire-Cured? As a dessert tobacco blend, however, Skydancer-FrankenHouse isn’t half bad.

 

[billherbst]

Yesterday I read RpadTV’s article on his favorite new-to-him retail juices of 2013. At #10 on his Top 10 Best of 2013 list was OrbVapor Organic RY4. Rpad’s comment was: “An atypical RY4 that’s given a nice twist through hazelnut and French vanilla flavorings.”

Leaving aside the question of what constitutes “organic” certification in ejuice ingredients, I like OrbVapor’s philosophy and approach. All-natural may not always mean pure or safe, but it sure beats the hell out of synthetic, lab-based flavorings in my book for probable safety (but not for longevity; natural flavorings and extracts tend to degrade much faster than synthetics, so shelf life of juices made from all-natural ingredients is almost certain to be substantially reduced).

That said, I didn’t think much of OrbVapor RY4. So, I grabbed my OrbVapor RY4 carto and re-sampled it.

Oh my. Way, way too sweet. Caramel and vanilla simply can’t be this sweet on their own, so Orb RY4 must have some additional sweetener. Ethyl maltol, maybe? I don’t know. EM may not be considered “organic.” The juice I have is all-VG, which can add its own sweetness, but not this much.

However OrbVapor’s juicemaker achieved the high level of sweetness in Orb’s RY4, it’s too much for my palate. Maybe RPad got a different version of this juice than I did. My reaction is to reconsider the C+ grade I gave earlier. Based on my experience today, it’s a C-. OrbVapor really needs to rethink their recipe ingredients, mix ratios, and flavor profile on this one.

Which brings me to another RY4 revisited. Rygar is a Custom RY4 made by want2vape that’s sold by VulcanVape. It bears a family resemblance to want2vape RY4, except that I don’t like it as well. Resampling it again today, I feel that the flavors are muted and muddy. I’m afraid I have to shift the previous grade of B+ to B-.

I also got out my bottle of Hangsen RY4 retail juice and dripped some. Given my recent revelation that, when mixed very sparingly, Hangsen Essence RY4 flavoring concentrate produces an extraordinary DIY Classic RY4, I wanted to see how Hangsen’s retail juice version would compare. Guess what? I like the DIY version made from Hangsen concentrate much more than I do the “official,” authentic Hangsen RY4 retail juice version. Go figure. I’ll leave Hangsen retail RY4 at its current grade of B, but I’m moving up Hangsen’s Essence RY4 flavoring concentrate to a straight A.

The other juice up for a beating today is DarthVapers RY5. I have only about 2mls of this, sent to me a long time ago by a thread reader. It’s not currently on The Big List, since I was waiting to get some DarthVapers RY4 before reviewing the RY5. I just never got around to that.

RY5 is a curious subspecies of the RY family. I’ve vaped only three of them: FreedomSmokeUSA RY5, BombayVaping RY5, and DarthVapers RY5. All three are definitely weird. You know, like strange step-children from outside the family lineage.

FSUSA RY5 is the strangest, but I like it for some perverse reason. BombayVaping RY5 is a sweeter version of Bombay's RY4, but with kicked up caramel. It’s OK, but nothing special. And DarthVapor RY5? Well, for one thing, the juice is a bright peach color, which is a little disconcerting, as is its flavor profile---slightly astringent (shades of Halo), with a tobacco base that I find a bit unsettling. Since DarthVapers RY5 isn’t on The Big List, I’ll just leave it that way. Enough said.