The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)

[clnire]

I find this strange. Last night I loaded up a tank full of Quick Nic Our whY Qua4tro and started enjoying it. Wait a minute - this tastes similar to - where is that bottle with about 1 ml left in it... found it, but some in an Igo-l dripper for a taste test - yep, very similar to Steam juice Toasted RY4! Toasted is synthetic, but the similarity in flavor (TO ME!) Is interesting. I only have this 1ml left but will order again eventually and try to do a review now that I am better at describing flavors???? Hummmmm.

 

[beachpuff]

On the other hand, if your favorite RY4 is Custom, such as IKV Gold RY4, and you run out without being able to get more, then your chances of finding another Custom RY4 that will provide a satisfying substitute are slim or none. Instead, you might as well start vaping other Custom RY4s to find one you like as much or almost as much, even though the new one doesn't taste the same or even close to the same as your old favorite.

I am totally out of IKV, so like you said, I had to branch out and try new ones. I picked up some Indigo, RW Vapors & Halo flavors just to try to find something that I like in a different way. I was just hoping that someone somewhere along the line had imitated it but experimenting can be helpful. Right now I'm actually enjoying my Indigo sampler.

 

[billherbst]

Specs: The 15ml bottle of IndigoVapor Naturally RY that was sent to me free for review by Tony, the owner of IndigoVapor, is a 12mg nic juice in a 50/50 PG/VG base. Color of the liquid is a light caramel, with no discernible scent. I let the bottle steep for four days before opening it. Testing was done with a 2.9 ohm Ultimate CE2 clearo (old school hardware, but I have more than 100 RY4s loaded into those clearos from years past, so I’m using up the last ten CE2s I have before moving on) powered by a VAMO v3 set various wattages.

IndigoVapor has long offered three Custom RY4s. The first was called Indigo RY, then came Indigo Classic, with the third named Eastwood, which is a 50/50 hybrid blend of Indigo RY and The Duke, a synthetic tobacco blend. Indigo Classic is very highly-rated and a particular favorite of mine. All three use synthetic tobacco flavoring. Recently, Indigo came out with a limited line of retail juices based on natural tobacco flavorings that are extracted in-house. One of the seven NETs is an RY4---called Naturally RY.

The on-site description is simple and to the point: “Indigo RY done the NET way.”

Tony told me that the natural tobacco flavoring he uses currently is steam-distilled extract that he outsources from a supplier whose product he can closely monitor for quality control. (Tony plans on in-house extractions in the future, however). Sharing center-stage with the tobacco is a candied caramel that is not so much sweet as potent. Together, these contrasting but complementary flavors have a focused impact that tastes almost-but-not-quite as if a slight bit of licorice had been added. I don’t think any licorice was used, but I employ the word to describe the sharp, almost tangy impact of their alliance. It's a very unique flavor, not my personal favorite, but others may find it wonderful. A softer vanilla stays in the background to add richness, more like a Bavarian Cream than a straight vanilla. Though not a sweet dessert-style RY4, this juice offers moderate richness that is sweet enough to be very satisfying.

Some Custom RY4s emphasize one element so strongly that they run the risk of losing the triple flavor of RY4 (tobacco/caramel/vanilla). Not so with the group of natural tobacco RY4s I've vaped. All of them display a lovely balance, highlighting each flavor in the RY4 Holy Trinity, and Naturally RY is no exception. Though nothing like a Classic RY4, Naturally RY is nonetheless an RY4 all the way.

Naturally RY is a worthy addition to the growing list of NET-based natural-tobacco Custom RY4s. Its flavor profile is designed to appeal to vapers who appreciate the authentic taste of real tobacco, and it carries off that challenge with style. Lower wattage of 7-8 watts emphasizes the caramel and vanilla more, while higher power of 9-11 watts brings the distinctive tobacco forward with greater intensity and punch. I’d say that the balance of flavors tasted best to me on the lower end of the power range, about 8 watts.

If you love Classic or dessert-style RY4s, Naturally RY isn’t your juice. It's designed for people who like tobacco first and caramel second, since those are the stars of the show. Happily, however, Indigo Vaper has three other RY4s to serve just about every palate. I like all of them, with Indigo Classic my favorite. At least one of the quartet should please just about any RY4 fan.

IndigoVapor Naturally RY grade: B
link to purchase: IndigoVapor Naturally RY

 

[Jerms]

Bill, did you find out from the maker that Indigo extracts in-house? There was speculation that they are using TA, possibly sourced from NudeNic who makes there own. This was thought because the wording they use on the site is straight from NN's site "These natural Tobacco extracts are absent of nicotine , and can be truly formulated to 0mg/mL if required - giving us control over the nicotine content. A similar process to that of the decaffeination of coffee beans is used to remove trace nicotine from our product. However, please be advised, other minor tobacco alkaloids are present in these extracts."

 

[billherbst]

Bill, did you find out from the maker that Indigo extracts in-house? There was speculation that they are using TA, possibly sourced from NudeNic who makes there own. This was thought because the wording they use on the site is straight from NN's site "These natural Tobacco extracts are absent of nicotine , and can be truly formulated to 0mg/mL if required - giving us control over the nicotine content. A similar process to that of the decaffeination of coffee beans is used to remove trace nicotine from our product. However, please be advised, other minor tobacco alkaloids are present in these extracts."

Jerms,

When I emailed Tony at Indigo to request review samples, I asked about the source of the natural tobacco flavorings---how they were made and where they came from. Tony didn't address my questions in his email response.

Although Naturally RY doesn't taste like the typical Bulgarian commercial TA I've had before, it also doesn't taste like most simple-soak macerated NETs I've had or made. It does taste authentic---you know, like real tobacco flavor---but it's a somewhat "harder," more compressed taste. Most macerated NETs have a certain softness. Steam-distilled extracts and TA have always seemed to me more aggressive in tone and impact.

So, because the tobacco element is so unusual, I'd be willing to speculate that it could indeed be made with TA sourced from Nude Nic.

 

[billherbst]

Specs: The 15ml bottle of N-E-T.com tRY4.1 that Big Juicy sent me (thanks, BJ!) contains a transparent liquid, medium-caramel-colored, at 12mg nic strength in a 60PG/40VG base. Nose of the liquid offers a slight caramel aroma. Since the juice was shipped first to BJ and then to me, I figure it’s had at least the minimally-required steep time. Testing was done using a 2.9 ohm Ultimate CE2 clearo powered by a Buzz Pro VV set to 4.8 volts, for about 8.2 watts.

Here’s part of the description of tRY4.1 from the Naturally-Extracted-Tobacco.com web site product page, written by Clay, the owner and juicemaster of N-E-T.com:

"Our custom extracted tobaccos approach to the highly sought after RY4 flavor of caramel and vanilla-imbued tobacco. Often overheard will be some left wondering where the tobacco is supposed to come through, this is our answer to that eternal question with an eLiquid like RY4, "Wheres my 'bacco?!?" Vanilla is meant to remain a mild note around the periphery while the caramel remains at the forefront and I hope you'll agree that it splits the lion's share of flavor presented to your palate with the tobaccos used... 3 different tobaccos were extracted, then blended and tweaked until just right (in my estimation anyway with all natural Caramel and Vanilla flavors added during mixing to create a truly multi-layered RY4 experience."
​

An interesting phenomenon in RY4 Land is the relative diversity of flavor profiles. Classic RY4s tend to share a common flavor profile. While not identical, Classic RY4s all lean in the same direction in terms of overall taste. So, variation exists, but it's minor rather than major. By contrast, Custom RY4s are all over the map. The whole genre of Custom RY4 is in part defined by the an explosion of different flavor profiles. Sure, Custom RY4s all tend to use the Holy Trinity of tobacco, caramel, and vanilla flavors, but somehow they often end up tasting very different from one another. Sometimes that’s because of the addition of other flavorings, and other times just because the three core flavors come in so many different variations that the combinations are endless and quite distinct.

Here’s the odd part: NET-based RY4s are, by definition, part of the Custom RY4 genre. The use of natural tobacco flavoring alone would rule them out of the Classic genre. The synthetic tobacco flavoring used in Classic RY4s is always balanced and unified with the caramel and vanilla, so that the tobacco doesn’t stand out. NET-based RY4s may be beautifully blended, but the tobacco is still an obvious presence. And yet, I’m beginning to notice that, as a group, NET-based RY4s---especially those made with macerated extracts---tend to taste more similar than different, even though they are part of the Custom genre, where anything goes and often does.

N.E.T tRY4.1 is, to my palate, a delicious natural tobacco RY4---authentic tobaccos (three of them, according to the description), yummy caramel, and soft vanilla. And guess what? tRY4.1 is surprisingly close in overall flavor to numerous other NET-based RY4s, such as MyVapeJuice Rogue RY4, KillerJuice RY4, QuickNic ouR whY qu4tro, RiverBottomFogSauce KillR Y4, and my own DIY NET version called Burley Kake RY4, made from my homemade macerated extract of Hearth&Home Burley Kake retail pipe tobacco. Now, it’s probably unfair and slightly narcissistic of me to include my own NET-based DIY RY4 in this group, since only myself and Big Juicy have vaped it, but I’m sure that BJ would echo my opinion, namely, that my Burley Kake RY4 tastes remarkably similar to Clay’s tRY4.1. Are they identical? No, Clay’s version uses three tobaccos rather than one and probably different caramel and vanilla flavorings, and the proportions of each element in the recipe are likely to be different as well. Nonetheless, the two RY4s are similar. Heck, all the macerated NET-based RY4s are similar.

RY4s made using macerated natural tobacco extracts share a common element in the softness of their flavor profiles. Even though the tobacco flavor is often more dominant, the overall taste is not in any way hard. Instead, it’s softer than in many Custom RY4s, sort of “fuzzy around the edges.” The NET-based RY4 I reviewed yesterday---Indigo Naturally RY---uses Tobacco Absolute rather than macerated extract (I think), and has a taste that’s harder and more compressed. That punchier flavor is generally the case with TA-based RY4s. In the retail juice marketplace, literally hundreds of tobacco juices are made with at least a little TA added, while some use it more boldly. The essential character of TA is more potent and focused than macerated tobacco extracts.

All the NET-based Custom RY4s made with macerated extracts that I listed a couple paragraphs above, plus others I didn’t list, are more similar than different. All of them get high marks from me. Am I biased? Of course. But so is everyone else, so take any review with a grain of salt.

If you appreciate the taste of natural tobacco and like NET-based RY4s that use macerated extract flavoring, you’re in luck again, as N-E-T tRY4.1 is a delicious addition to the growing list of NET-based RY4s. On the other hand, if you’re a diehard Classic RY4 fan or a vaper who prefers synthetic-tobacco-based Custom RY4s (of which hundreds exist in the retail marketplace), then move right along, because there’s nothing here for you.

N-E-T.com tRY4.1 grade: B+
link to purchase: N.E.T. tRY4.1

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Do the distinctions of TA-based RY4s from other NET-based ones suggest another classification?

 

[billherbst]

Do the distinctions of TA-based RY4s from other NET-based ones suggest another classification?

Cool,

Perhaps, but I'm inclined to think not. The problem is that TA is apparently much more common in retail tobacco eliquids than we may know. Other than my palate (which is only semi-reliable and far from infallible), I have no way of knowing how many retail Custom RY4s use TA.

Also, TA is most often added sparingly to augment synthetic, lab-based tobacco flavorings. As far as I know, it is rarely used entirely on its own. IF Indigo Naturally RY is indeed TA-based (which I don't know for a fact, since Tony, despite very generously sending me Indigo's entire line of seven NETs, didn't reply to my question about the nature and source of the tobacco flavoring), then I'd guess that it's entirely TA, not a hybrid of TA along with synthetic tobacco flavoring. Nonetheless, the prevalence of TA used as a minor additive to synthetic tobacco flavors makes a separate category for TA-based RY4s rather dicey. How much TA is necessary to make the categorization of "TA-based"? And how would we ever find out?

My personal, anecdotal experience is that some vendors (not all, by any means, but some) not only won't divulge the ingredients in their retail eliquids, but take offense at even being asked. I don't wish to become a target for vendors' wrath.

Right now, my intention is to leave the Category Groups as they are---with a Strong Tobacco category that makes no distinction between synthetic and natural tobacco flavorings, and a Natural Tobacco category that includes both NET-based RY4s and TA-based RY4s.

 

[clnire]

N.E.T tRY4.1 is, to my palate, a delicious natural tobacco RY4---authentic tobaccos (three of them, according to the description), yummy caramel, and soft vanilla. And guess what? tRY4.1 is surprisingly close in overall flavor to numerous other NET-based RY4s, such as MyVapeJuice Rogue RY4, KillerJuice RY4, QuickNic ouR whY qu4tro, RiverBottomFogSauce KillR Y4, and my own DIY NET version called Burley Kake RY4, made from my homemade macerated extract of Hearth&Home Burley Kake retail pipe tobacco. Now, it’s probably unfair and slightly narcissistic of me to include my own NET-based DIY RY4 in this group, since only myself and Big Juicy have vaped it, but I’m sure that BJ would echo my opinion, namely, that my Burley Kake RY4 tastes remarkably similar to Clay’s tRY4.1. Are they identical? No, Clay’s version uses three tobaccos rather than one and probably different caramel and vanilla flavorings, and the proportions of each element in the recipe are likely to be different as well. Nonetheless, the two RY4s are similar. Heck, all the macerated NET-based RY4s are similar.

Just a note - I have your Burley Kake RY4. I extracted the same Burley Kake tobacco and used your recipe (even same flavorings suggested) and I have to agree, it is right up there with the top NET Ry4s. No brag, just fact. JMHO Guess I should try Clay's.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Cool,

Perhaps, but I'm inclined to think not. The problem is that TA is apparently much more common in retail tobacco eliquids than we may know. Other than my palate (which is only semi-reliable and far from infallible), I have no way of knowing how many retail Custom RY4s use TA.

Good thoughts, Bill.

There may be some hints left by TA in an ejuice. One is that otherwise clearish liquids may appear a little cloudy. By 'clearish,' I don't mean non-colored, but TA can add some obscurity...cloudiness. TA also tends to gum up wicks more readily than cleaner ejuices. At one time, I thought I would work toward very clear (regardless of color) ejuices, but have recently realized that I was missing a lot by avoiding TA.

My favorite juices are those that take on a bright reddish color as they age.

 

[billherbst]

Good thoughts, Bill.

There may be some hints left by TA in an ejuice. One is that otherwise clearish liquids may appear a little cloudy. By 'clearish,' I don't mean non-colored, but TA can add some obscurity...cloudiness. TA also tends to gum up wicks more readily than cleaner ejuices. At one time, I thought I would work toward very clear (regardless of color) ejuices, but have recently realized that I was missing a lot by avoiding TA.

My favorite juices are those that take on a bright reddish color as they age.

Cool,

In vaping's brief history, the main source of Tobacco Absolute was the Bulgarian commercial product originally marketed in the perfume industry. The traits you mention, including a greenish-yellow oily residue, are characteristic of that particular TA.

Now, however, other sources of TA are popping up in the marketplace. The two I know of are VelvetCloudVapor and NudeNicotine. I simply don't know if their versions of TA share the qualities we've come to associate with Bulgarian TA.

Below is the Categories group for Natural Tobacco RY4s in the format used for the most recent update of The Big RY4 List. Notice how I've set it up, so that the source (in-house or not) and kind of tobacco flavoring (NET or TA) are included:

Natural Extract Tobacco (NET) or Tobacco Absolute (TA)
GoodEJuice GJ4 (in-house macerated NET)
HighbrowVapor Highbrowbacco RY4 (NET, source unknown)
IndigoVapor Naturally RY (presumably Tobacco Absolute)
KillerJuice RY4 (“all natural,” presumably NET, source unknown)
Mom&PopVaporShop RY4 (Tobacco Absolute)
Mom&PopVaporShop RY4v2 (Tobacco Absolute)
Mom&PopVaporShop RYO4 (Tobacco Extract, a derivative of Tobacco Absolute)
Moondrop RY4 (Tobacco Absolute)
MountainOakVapors Full Virginia Flake RY4 (in-house macerated NET)
MyVapeJuice Rogue RY4 (in-house macerated NET)
N-E-T.com tRY4.1 (in-house macerated NET)
PrimeVaping PV4 (NET, unknown source)
QuickNicJuice RY4 (Tobacco Absolute, I think)
QuickNicJuice ouR whY Qu4tro (in-house macerated NET)
River Bottom Fog Sauce KillR Y4 (in-house macerated NET) - sold by VapingWatch
SpringVapor Fall Harvest RY4 (Tobacco Absolute)
SpringVapor Black Label RY4 (Tobacco Absolute)
SpringVapor Black Label RY4 - Day and Night (Tobacco Absolute)
VapeRite Organic VR4 (in-house macerated NET)
VapeRite RY4 (in-house macerated NET?)
VaporStation VS4 (Tobacco Absolute/NET blend)
Want2Vape RY4 (in-house macerated NET)​

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Cool,

In vaping's brief history, the main source of Tobacco Absolute was the Bulgarian commercial product originally marketed in the perfume industry. The traits you mention, including a greenish-yellow oily residue, are characteristic of that particular TA.

Now, however, other sources of TA are popping up in the marketplace. The two I know of are VelvetCloudVapor and NudeNicotine. I simply don't know if their versions of TA share the qualities we've come to associate with Bulgarian TA.

As usual, Bill, you are on top of the matter.

Yes, my understandings of TA are based on the Bulgarian version. Another hint is that the residue left behind on wicks and coils has a sand-like quality to it...gritty.

It would be nice to think that some of the TA newcomers can improve the product. I'll be watching for news of them.

Bulgarian or otherwise, TA can be a valuable additive.

By the way, Bill, do you know where the reddish color I have mentioned comes from?

 

[billherbst]

By the way, Bill, do you know where the reddish color I have mentioned comes from?

Nope. It's a mystery to me.

That happened with my first two bottles of Vita Bella, an NET from GoodEJuice, in 2011 and 2012. Both started off light tan or caramel colored and over time steeped into a deep maroon color. Flavor profile changed, too. Now I'm on my third 30ml bottle of VB, and I hope to vape it all before it morphs into Little Red Riding Hood. Fat chance.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Nope. It's a mystery to me.

For me, that happened with Awesome Clouds AC3 and if I recall correctly a bottle of Mr. Vape RY4. I have a subsequent bottle of the latter which is golden-orange at present.

 

[Jerms]

Jerms,

When I emailed Tony at Indigo to request review samples, I asked about the source of the natural tobacco flavorings---how they were made and where they came from. Tony didn't address my questions in his email response.

Although Naturally RY doesn't taste like the typical Bulgarian commercial TA I've had before, it also doesn't taste like most simple-soak macerated NETs I've had or made. It does taste authentic---you know, like real tobacco flavor---but it's a somewhat "harder," more compressed taste. Most macerated NETs have a certain softness. Steam-distilled extracts and TA have always seemed to me more aggressive in tone and impact.

So, because the tobacco element is so unusual, I'd be willing to speculate that it could indeed be made with TA sourced from Nude Nic.

I find the TA that NN makes to be quite different from standard commercial TA. I enjoyed the 2 I ordered from them a while back. No idea if Indigo is sourcing from them, but if so it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for me. Though I would prefer that they stated that it's TA instead of calling them NET.

In the end, what matters for my use is if it tastes good, and it sounds like this one does. I was eyeballing their NET sampler (awesome that they offer that) during the Labor Day sale but passed for now.

 

[Jerms]

Very interesting comments on NET RY4s today. Always fun and informative reading your thoughts Bill. Right now I have ouR whY, GJ4, and KillRY4, all of which I find immensely enjoyable.

Also got in Smokeless Image's Volt RY4 a couple days ago. Haven't vaped it yet, but opening it slammed me with a potent, lovely classic RY4 scent. I have a feeling I'll be reaching for it often once I start digging in.

 

[billherbst]

Bill, did you find out from the maker that Indigo extracts in-house?

Jerms,

Tony, IndigoVapor's owner and juicemaster, emailed me this afternoon with that information. He is currently using steam-distilled natural tobacco extract that is outsourced from a supplier he can monitor. Tony has plans to do in-house extractions down the road. The other well-known NET vendor I know that outsources steam-distilled extract is Heather'sHeavenlyVapes (HHV).

I've edited my review to reflect the additional and confirmed information.

 

[billherbst]

Very interesting comments on NET RY4s today. Always fun and informative reading your thoughts Bill. Right now I have ouR whY, GJ4, and KillRY4, all of which I find immensely enjoyable.

Also got in Smokeless Image's Volt RY4 a couple days ago. Haven't vaped it yet, but opening it slammed me with a potent, lovely classic RY4 scent. I have a feeling I'll be reaching for it often once I start digging in.

Jerms,

That is one heck of an RY4 quartet you have. SI Volt RY4 and QnJ ouR whY qu4tro are both in the A graded group---the very best of the best retail RY4s---with RBFS KillR Y4 getting a B+ and GeJ GJ4 earning a solid B from me.

Not a clunker in the bunch. You, sir, qualify as an RY4 connoisseur.

 

[Jerms]

Jerms,

Tony, IndigoVapor's owner and juicemaster, emailed me this afternoon with that information. He is currently using steam-distilled natural tobacco extract that is outsourced from a supplier he can monitor. Tony has plans to do in-house extractions down the road. The other well-known NET vendor I know that outsources steam-distilled extract is Heather'sHeavenlyVapes (HHV).

Cool, glad we found out what sort of NET is used. Curious the use the same quote as NN, but maybe even NN is quoting another source.

Stream distilled tobacco extract can be quite tasty. Ahl uses that method for their non-aro line. Vermilion River uses outsourced like HHV, and the now vanished Darth Vapors made their own.

 

[Jerms]

Jerms,

That is one heck of an RY4 quartet you have. SI Volt RY4 and QnJ ouR whY qu4tro are both in the A graded group---the very best of the best retail RY4s---with RBFS KillR Y4 getting a B+ and GeJ GJ4 earning a solid B from me.

Not a clunker in the bunch. You, sir, qualify as an RY4 connoisseur.

Of course they're winners, I make my choices based on your recommendations lol. Haven't steered me wrong yet.