The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)

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On Target

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cali, I am so glad you took the time to do your "experiment" with Tribeca using top and bottom coil devices. I recently purchased some Evods and loaded one up with Tribeca a few days ago and noticed it did not taste quite the same as when loaded into a CE4 type clearomizer. I thought it was because the Tribeca I used is relatively fresh (only a week of steeping time). However, now that you mention the "distinctive toasted/bittersweet after taste ", I too detect the same thing in an Evod and it is absent in the CE4. I have never detected this before in Tribeca. I have also noticed another favorite of mine - BWB's Casablanca - has a better taste (to me) when vaped in a Evod versus almost any other delivery system I have used. Conversely, MOV's Full Virginia Flake tastes better to me in a CE4 than it does in an Evod. Go figure. There are sooooo many different combinations we can all use with so many different juices, it is staggering. Throw different power levels into the mix and the combinations are mind boggling!

Dang, this habit / hobby just keeps getting better every day!
 

Calivapr123

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@On Target - The EVOD was the exact bottom coil I used. I was astounded by the result as I had never seen anyone mention it. My initial reaction to the experiment was "are you kidding me?!" Although my experiment is only a couple of days old, it seems to answer a lot of my questions about this juice, for example: why so many times in the past I have struggled to look for that taste, while other times it's right there, very bold and distinctive?; why do I always taste it at the local B&M store (uses cartomizer tanks), every time, but it's not consistent on my own Tribeca and devices? Why was it present all the time when I started off (this was my first liquid) using a Halo G6 (with Kanger 808 Cartomizer)?

At this point, it seems as though Tribeca contains a type of Caramel flavoring that's more sensitive to high heat exposure, which can then easily produce a distinctive, slow-roasted flavor. The heat on a Top Coil tank is inhaled upward and away from the juice, which is not the case with bottom coil and cartomizer type delivery, where heat can permeate throughout the liquid with every vape. Do this over and over and it can significantly change the attributes of juice remaining inside, while still looking like a fresh liquid. Just thinking aloud here.
 
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billherbst

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As part of my efforts to keep the thread updated, I recently purchased a new 5ml bottle of ECBlend RY4. I reviewed it originally in August 2011, soon after the thread began. Don’t go back and read the review---the thread has come very far since then, and our sophistication about RY4s has evolved big time, so that most of those early reviews are now downright embarrassing in their naive approach to RY4s. Anyway, I figured ECBlend might have changed their recipe over the past two years, so it might be worth taking another look at the RY4 they sell now. I ordered my 5ml bottle with no extra flavoring to see how their juice would taste without frills or customizing. I chose the default 50/50 PG/VG base in 24mg nic. The liquid is a nice amber-rose transparency with a very slight but pleasant smell.

Guess what? It’s a nice, enjoyable Custom RY4. Not great, but not bad at all. I know that’s not what we’d call a real "review," but I don’t feel like giving it the full treatment. All I really want to say is that ECBlend’s legion of loyal, rabid fans can rest assured that their favorite RY4 is pretty good and worth vaping. I feel relatively certain that extra flavor wouldn’t improve it, however (and heaven forbid ordering with double extra flavor---that would kill the juice for sure).

I had the old version graded as a B- in The RY4 Report Card, but I’ll bump that up a B for the current version.

Here’s the problem, though: When we can buy a 30ml bottle of Hangsen RY4---arguably one of very best retail classic RY4s in the marketplace---for a mere $3.64 shipped from fasttech.com, why would we choose to vape ECBlend RY4 for triple the cost? Other than vendor loyalty, the only reason I can come up with is not knowing any better. Perhaps because some people like custom RY4s over classics, or because they love multiple customizing options? Yeah, whatever.

-----

Out of sheer curiosity, I also purchased a 5ml bottle of ECBlend Spicy RY4. It’s their regular custom RY4 with a spicy kick. The spice flavorings are mixed sparingly, so that the spiciness is relatively subtle as a background tone. I’ll guess that the spices are cardamom and clove. I can’t taste any cinnamon, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t any.

Guess what? Spicy RY4 is a well-blended juice. The spices complement the tobacco, caramel, and vanilla, without distracting from or competing with the core ingredients. They actually add something interesting. Right away, I found Spicy RY4 to be quite a tasty vape. No acquired taste or learning curve here. It’s odd, but it’s a good odd. I’ll give Spicy RY4 a B to keep it right next to its brother. The juice made me wonder why no one else has come up with a retail custom RY4 with a spice kick, but I can’t think of any. This is good enough in an unusual way that I might actually vape it, so I just ordered a larger 15ml bottle. Makes me want to get some cardamom and clove flavoring to add to my DIY arsenal (I already have both sweet and hot cinnamon).

For custom RY4 lovers, ECBlend Spicy RY4 is definitely worth a look-see. (Use coupon code “10020” to get 20% off ECBlend’s already low discount prices.)

Links to purchase:
ECBlend RY4
ECBlend Spicy RY4
 

clnire

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Bill, I am sensitive to pg so Hangsen retail and many others are not viable for me. Believe me, I have tried. I have a bottle of Hangsen sitting at home in my dark closet. Tried it and the PG almost knocked me out. I appreciate all the reviews and gradings, lets me go research for companies who will make low pg (at least 50/50) juice. I know the lack of pg can affect the flavor, but the vendors I have purchased from so far (Mr Vape is my favorite so far, with Indigo Classic so close. I also really like TVR's Ginger's RY4, it is different, sweeter? stronger flavor? than others, but I won a 15 ml bottle in a contest and I really like it) say they honor my request for a small amount, not a "flavor shot" just a little, extra flavor to help with the low pg. ECBlend was one of the first RY4s I every tried and I liked it so much it got me hooked on RY4 and following this wonderful thread.

Thanks for all your hard work, and thanks to everyone who contributes!!! So many more I want to try.... :vapor:
 

Zombitedesade

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Bill, I am sensitive to pg so Hangsen retail and many others are not viable for me. Believe me, I have tried. I have a bottle of Hangsen sitting at home in my dark closet. Tried it and the PG almost knocked me out. I appreciate all the reviews and gradings, lets me go research for companies who will make low pg (at least 50/50) juice. I know the lack of pg can affect the flavor, but the vendors I have purchased from so far (Mr Vape is my favorite so far, with Indigo Classic so close. I also really like TVR's Ginger's RY4, it is different, sweeter? stronger flavor? than others, but I won a 15 ml bottle in a contest and I really like it) say they honor my request for a small amount, not a "flavor shot" just a little, extra flavor to help with the low pg. ECBlend was one of the first RY4s I every tried and I liked it so much it got me hooked on RY4 and following this wonderful thread.

Thanks for all your hard work, and thanks to everyone who contributes!!! So many more I want to try.... :vapor:

Clnire, I'm not sure if this is helpful to you or not, but I source my Hangsen Ry4 from an Irish site called bargin vapours. They do 100% VG Hangsen RY4 in 100ml bottles for pretty cheap, they allow you even to be charged in dollars, so I guess that's a possible sign, that they ship overseas too.

HS RY4 VG 100ml

Having had both, I can say, that the VG mix does lose some of the finer flavour points of the PG version, but if VG is all you can vape, then its certianly worth considering. It's not as sweet and is a generally more muted vape over its PG counterpart. I'd be tempted to suggest putting a little caramel flavouring in there perhapes to offset that muted VG taste, but its something you'll need to do at your own discression. I guess one way around would be to order some PG and the VG and 50/50 it yourself in a seperate bottle or via syringe in a big enough tank / carto / whatever of your choice.
 

Zombitedesade

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@On Target - The EVOD was the exact bottom coil I used. I was astounded by the result as I had never seen anyone mention it. My initial reaction to the experiment was "are you kidding me?!" Although my experiment is only a couple of days old, it seems to answer a lot of my questions about this juice, for example: why so many times in the past I have struggled to look for that taste, while other times it's right there, very bold and distinctive?; why do I always taste it at the local B&M store (uses cartomizer tanks), every time, but it's not consistent on my own Tribeca and devices? Why was it present all the time when I started off (this was my first liquid) using a Halo G6 (with Kanger 808 Cartomizer)?

At this point, it seems as though Tribeca contains a type of Caramel flavoring that's more sensitive to high heat exposure, which can then easily produce a distinctive, slow-roasted flavor. The heat on a Top Coil tank is inhaled upward and away from the juice, which is not the case with bottom coil and cartomizer type delivery, where heat can permeate throughout the liquid with every vape. Do this over and over and it can significantly change the attributes of juice remaining inside, while still looking like a fresh liquid. Just thinking aloud here.

Cali, your findings are interesting indeed. I've almost exclusively always preferred the taste of any juice when the atomiser device is top coiled or in the case of 306LR right up on my lips. I prefer the warm vapour and the slightly increased throat hit sensation. Turns out I have a kanger pro tank now though, I think I'm going to test out your theory and refill it with TriBeCa when its next empty. My TriBeCa is still very very new though, I suspect I won't truly experience the toasty flavour you mention until mines steeped more, it sounds like at least 6 months will be needed.
 

billherbst

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Bill, I am sensitive to pg so Hangsen retail and many others are not viable for me. Believe me, I have tried. I have a bottle of Hangsen sitting at home in my dark closet. Tried it and the PG almost knocked me out. I appreciate all the reviews and gradings, lets me go research for companies who will make low pg (at least 50/50) juice. I know the lack of pg can affect the flavor, but the vendors I have purchased from so far (Mr Vape is my favorite so far, with Indigo Classic so close. I also really like TVR's Ginger's RY4, it is different, sweeter? stronger flavor? than others, but I won a 15 ml bottle in a contest and I really like it) say they honor my request for a small amount, not a "flavor shot" just a little, extra flavor to help with the low pg. ECBlend was one of the first RY4s I every tried and I liked it so much it got me hooked on RY4 and following this wonderful thread.

clnire,

I stand corrected. An allergy to PG is certainly a very good reason not to buy FastTech's Hangsen RY4 or any RY4 with a mostly-PG base.

Happily, you have many alternatives that are mostly-VG among RY4s, not only in retail RY4 liquids, but also with the many fine DIY all-in-one pre-mixed RY4 flavorings that can be mixed 10/90 PG/VG.

MrVape RY4 and Indigo Classic are both among my favorites, although I'm not a big fan of TVR Ginger's. If you like Ginger's RY4, however, by all means vape away!

$18.57 for 100mls of Hangsen RY4 in PG or VG from BargainVapour in Ireland isn't a half-bad price for a non-Chinese-deep-discount vendor. I didn't put a bottle in a cart to find out what shipping costs, although BV's home page touts inexpensive international shipping rates.
 

clnire

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Thanks Zombit and Bill. I travel so much with work I have not really dipped my fingers into DIY, but this winter when I am home I plan on purchasing some of the RY4 flavorings reviewed and see what I can do. And your recipe Bill,I have it saved in a file on the ole' laptop! I understand everyone's flavor preferences differ, and I love the fact that no one judges here, just real reviews we can test ourselves. :toast:

PS I will check out BarginVapors. Also I will probably purchase some Hangsen RY4 flavor and experiment...Can't wait for winter!
 

Calivapr123

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Review: DEKANG SILVER LABEL RY4

Dekang2.jpg

I've had these 2 x 10ml Bottles of Dekang Silver Label RY4 for the better part of 2 months now, this is a rock solid RY4, with an incredible Tobacco taste, imo. These bottles were gifted to me by a friend who had travelled to the Philippines and purchased these 2 bottles from a local B&M store there.

I initially thought these were just the common Dekang RY4, up until recently I posted a picture in the forum, and a member responded that it is either a Gold or Silver Label Dekang. I presume Gold or Silver Label would be of higher quality, versus regular, but I wouldn't know as I have never had a regular Dekang RY4 before.

The fact that it is a Silver Label explains the unusual bottle and labeling from the other regular Dekang bottles, or other bottles for that matter, marked with plain paper stickers. The label is of high quality and has a bright silver, hologram at the lower portion (see pic) that gives it a special, very "legit" look and feel to it. This webpage indicates:

"The new bottle not refillable and world patent protected, consumers globally have the better rights to taste the authentic Dekang recipe with the use of new bottle.
Dekang will spare no effort to consolidate our image and spare no effort to crack down counterfeit" [sic]


als1p2.png


When I received this, I was very excited to vape it right away. It tasted horrible. I mean really bad, like I was vaping a concentrated Raisin flavor with barely any tobacco taste. I had little hope that I would like it, even if steeped. I left the bottle alone for a few weeks, hoping that it would fix itself somehow, or maybe just to forget the yucky taste. After about a month, I tried again. It was a delightful surprise that after a little bit of steeping, it had transformed into a wonderful RY4 taste. Delicious tobacco with some sweetness, that is quite difficult to describe.

Honestly I don't detect Caramel here, nor Vanilla, both of which are quite present in other RY4's. It's another kind of fruity sweetener. As seen in the pictures, it does list Tobacco Extract in its ingredients, and interestingly, Cocoa. I presume the Tobacco Extract is what produces a very tasteful, smokey and solid Tobacco taste that is very different from the tobacco taste of so many RY4 on the market. It is a NET (which perhaps is an attribute of the Silver/Gold Labels?] According to the same webpage previously quoted:

"Dekang is the only one who use high quality tobacco and bio extracts to make refilling liquid for electronic cigarette..." [sic]

I consumed the first bottle, and didn't break the second bottle open until shortly after that. This is when I discovered how essential it is, at least for this liquid, to be decanted. That second bottle that I opened tasted no different from the first, when I had opened that one. I then realized this needs some "air time." I decanted it by transferring to another bottle using a funnel, and then returned the rest in the original bottle, and let that sit for a few days, shaking and airing it out occasionally (I lose about 3 drops due to decanting). I took a vape and voila, what had initially taken a few weeks of closed bottle steeping on the first one, took only a couple of days on the second bottle, mostly due to having decanted it. I vaped a couple of tanks and left the rest alone until I consumed the remaining ~5ml over the last couple of days.

Throat hit is very present (I got 11mg Nic) and it is a 30/70 PG/VG mix (indicated, but not seen on the above pic), so it produces a tremendous amount of vapor, even on low voltage. Yet, it is very, very flavorful and delightlfully smokey, and clean. It's the kind of taste that would probably convert a common, hard headed, analoger towards ecigs right on the spot. Feels real, but exceptionally clean without the chemically, nor burned paper taste of analogs. Despite these familiar positive characteristics of an analog, there is that very subtle fruity-sweet flavor that is surprising in an RY4. This is fruity sweetness is extremely strong in a freshly opened bottle, but fades away into just a subtle hint after proper steeping/decanting.

Dekang does make a Gold Label as well. I wonder how that tastes? I try to source this liquid somewhere in the US, but my searches are not yielding any leads. Whatever I do find is available in Asia or Europe only. I'll keep looking. But in about 10 days, that friend of mine has family that is coming from the Philippines to visit the US, and I will be ordering a couple of 30ml bottles of this, and if possible, some Gold Label, too. Maybe share a little with some of you guys (maybe even trade) for your own assessment, and compare/contrast to other RY4's.
 
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billherbst

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Cali,

The proliferation of RY4s seems to be growing like wildfire.

The major players, such as Janty, Dekang, and Hangsen, now have sizable RY families, from RY1 to RY8. In addition, not content to offer a single RY4, they've got an RY4 for each of their product lines (sort of like the old GM structure for automobiles, with Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, and Cadillac---each designed for and marketed to a certain status/wealth segment of the population). Regular, Silver Label, Gold Label, with different lines for markets in China, the U.S., and Europe. I read somewhere just a day or two ago that Hangsen's Crentia line is specifically formulated for the European market. Or maybe it's just regular Hangsen with a new label and a higher price tag, LOL.

Even many of the smaller retail vendors who make and sell their own usually Custom RY4s now offer two or three different versions of RY4. Mom&Pop were the first vendor I remember way back when to sell three different RYs---RY4, RY4v2, and RYO---but now there must be at least 20 vendors offering multiple versions. The Custom RY4 genre keeps expanding into new (and wilder) flavor combinations.

I'm not complaining, by the way. This is, after all, how the consumer economy works: businesses spin-off their big successes, and competitors copy them. With RY4s, however, it's getting complicated, a bit confusing, and more than I can keep track of.
 

RPadTV

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Random question for your Bill: How did you decide on the term "custom" for RY4s? Classic totally makes sense to me, since those types of RY4s strive for the old-school (in vaping years...which is funny when you think about it) Chinese style. Most of the newer RY4s I've tried have a heavier emphasis on the caramel and vanilla flavors. I usually refer to those as "modern" or "Western" RY4s. Within this thread, if I use the term custom, most people know what I'm talking about. When I talk about RY4s at vape shops, modern makes more sense to the people I chat with. I'm not trying to get you to change terminology or anything; I'm genuinely curious about how "custom" came to be. Cheers!
 

Calivapr123

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So true, Bill. And it's a staggering thought when we realize that the market for eLiquids and eCigs is merely in an "embryo" stage at the moment. The number of smokers in the world is about triple the population of the entire United States, and yet only a minuscule fraction (less than 1%) of those have converted to eCigs and are patronizing the eLiquid market ... the transformations and consolidation is likely to continue at very fast pace, like you said, more than we can keep up with.

What I have learned most recently however, with this Dekang Silver Label, is that Tobacco Extract (NET) is a whole different ball game in eJuice, it seems synthetics just can't capture that tobacco taste as good as an extract can.
 

billherbst

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Random question for your Bill: How did you decide on the term "custom" for RY4s? Classic totally makes sense to me, since those types of RY4s strive for the old-school (in vaping years...which is funny when you think about it) Chinese style. Most of the newer RY4s I've tried have a heavier emphasis on the caramel and vanilla flavors. I usually refer to those as "modern" or "Western" RY4s. Within this thread, if I use the term custom, most people know what I'm talking about. When I talk about RY4s at vape shops, modern makes more sense to the people I chat with. I'm not trying to get you to change terminology or anything; I'm genuinely curious about how "custom" came to be. Cheers!

RPad,

The answer to your question is buried in the thread, having been discussed at some length over the initial year of posting and reviews.

The thread began with a single category: RY4. Soon after, however, it became apparent that we needed a way to distinguish RY4s that strayed from the flavor profile of typically Chinese RY4s. Initially, we called these "RY4-variants." Over time, however, that term was revealed to be unwieldy and a source of potential confusion rather than clarification. I felt strongly that we needed two genres, but only two (otherwise the genres would quickly multiply like rabbits)---one for "traditional" RY4s, and one for every other offshoot that might be called RY4 or, if named something else, still bore an obvious relation to RY4, at least in its component ingredients containing the Holy Trinity---tobacco, caramel, and vanilla. One day I woke up with the terms Classic and Custom in my head, and I began using them. Since then, I have periodically left posts attempting to explain and refine the differences---what qualities make an RY4 Classic or Custom?

I like the term "Custom" because it's purposely vague. All it really tells you is that you're getting something different from a Classic RY4, which was part of my intention in choosing it. I also like the alliteration of the hard Cs---Classic and Custom.

The reason I prefer Custom to "Modern" is that RY4 was invented in 2007 and is only six years old. Insufficient time has elapsed for vaping to have any authentic traditions. Everything in vaping is modern. That's why I like the term "Classic." It isn't synonymous with "Ancient" or "Antiquated," which, for some people, are the opposites to modern.

"Chinese vs. Western" has its own problems. Some American-made RY4s are definitely Classic, and some Chinese RY4s (Janty RY4-X, for instance) are Custom.

Not that Custom is perfect as a genre designation. Far from it. A Classic RY4 could conceivably be a custom-designed liquid, as most people use the term custom. But for me, Custom works as a genre designation, so I use it.

I'm not surprised that you don't find the Classic-Custom designations commonly used or understood in the vaping world beyond the thread. This thread is a niche phenomenon. It has some influence, but not widespread. But then, this thread is way ahead of the rest of world about RY4s. LOL.
 

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Thanks Bill!

It's funny. If I bring a Janty RY4 with me to an LA vape shop, most people -- including most of the store owners -- have no idea that it's an RY4. They think of more recent custom blends that focus on the sweet notes when they think about RY4s. If anything, I use classic and modern because it's easier to explain in a short amount of time to peeps at a vape shop.
 

billherbst

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What I have learned most recently however, with this Dekang Silver Label, is that Tobacco Extract (NET) is a whole different ball game in eJuice, it seems synthetics just can't capture that tobacco taste as good as an extract can.

Cali,

If by NETs we mean extracts derived from chopped tobacco leaves that are macerated in PG, VG, or a mix of the two, sometimes with added Alcohol, and either cold-steeped or heat-assisted, the flavored liquids from which (the extracts) are then used to make flavoring bases for tobacco blend eliquids, I was unaware that any major Chinese juice manufacturer is using NETs. What I understood the Chinese to use in some of their juices is the commercial product Tobacco Absolute (TA), which is a kind of super-concentrated essential oil of tobacco suspended in alcohol.

I've always assumed NETs to be a phenomenon built entirely on the efforts of small retail vendors. To the best of my knowledge, NETs remain the exclusive in-house product of these independent vendors, with no large-scale manufacturing facility having been mounted by anyone to provide wholesale NETs to juice manufacturers who might out-source them. I haven't read anything on the Natural Tobaccos thread to indicate that this has changed, but I haven't kept up with that thread as much over the past month, so maybe I missed some major revelation about the Chinese Juice Titans making and using their own NETs.
 

billherbst

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Thanks Bill!

It's funny. If I bring a Janty RY4 with me to an LA vape shop, most people -- including most of the store owners -- have no idea that it's an RY4. They think of more recent custom blends that focus on the sweet notes when they think about RY4s. If anything, I use classic and modern because it's easier to explain in a short amount of time to peeps at a vape shop.

Amazing, isn't it, that in some ways Janty RY4s are almost Custom (in part because they're not particularly sweet, but also, I think, because of their varying degrees of sourness), even though Janty made the original, first-ever RY4.

There's an old joke about a farmer in a field whose mule had stopped pulling the plow and wouldn't budge. A passer-by heard the farmer verbally haranguing his mule (to no effect), and offered to help. He grabbed a two-by-four from the farmer's wagon nearby, walked up to the mule, and---without a word---whacked the mule's rear haunches fairly hard with the stout piece of wood. Instantly, the mule began to pull the plow again. He said to the farmer, "It's easy. You just have to speak in a language the mule understands." Rim shot.
 

Calivapr123

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Bill - perhaps then I'm mistaken in interpreting what Dekang claims:

"Dekang is the only one who use high quality tobacco and bio extracts to make refilling liquid for electronic cigarette..." [sic]

Maybe they have some process we are unaware about. It's difficult to get to the bottom of it due to the language barrier and lack of resources. I would love to learn though.
 

billherbst

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Bill - perhaps then I'm mistaken in interpreting what Dekang claims:

"Dekang is the only one who use high quality tobacco and bio extracts to make refilling liquid for electronic cigarette..." [sic]

Maybe they have some process we are unaware about. It's difficult to get to the bottom of it due to the language barrier and lack of resources. I would love to learn though.

Cali,

Yeah, good luck on deciphering that ad copy. Some of it is obviously false---Dekang is hardly the only juicemaker using tobacco and bio extracts. Ask Ahlusion or Highbrow or OrbVapor about that. The rest of the sentence? Who knows? (Presumably, Dekang does...) As to what they mean by "extract," I haven't a clue. Maybe they have a manufacturing facility full of 500-gallon vats with a ton or two of organic tobacco macerations steeping in PG, VG, or alcohol, with sophisticated multi-stage filtration procedures to get the extract after it's ripe. Maybe they make their own all-natural real fruit "bio-extracts." Again, I don't know.

I would like to try some of their new Premium, Gold, or Silver lines of juices. They're trumpeting the all-natural thing pretty loudly.
 
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