rusty,
If you'd like to see nhaler's RY4 (or R Why Not?) included in the Category Groups, please shoot me a PM about it with the groups that you feel apply.
The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)
- Thread starter billherbst
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rusty,
If you'd like to see nhaler's RY4 (or R Why Not?) included in the Category Groups, please shoot me a PM about it with the groups that you feel apply.
what follows is the categorization of RY4 e-liquids i have personal sampled and bought myself. All liquids are from UK vendors unless otherwise stated. I have separated the categories as follows:
Balanced
To be considered 'balanced', that is neither strong on tobacco, vanilla or caramel (the three base elements of any true RY4), rather these balanced mixes represent all three flavors in unison. These should be your first port of call if you are looking for a well blended liquid, id also suggest these to a new RY4 user looking to try the liquid as these probably represent best what an RY4 'should be' in that all elements sing in harmony without overshadowing each other.
Tobacco Heavy
This is fair self explanatory really, an RY4 variant with strong or pronounced tobacco overtones. these are your strong RY4's, the caramel and vanilla take a back seat to tobacco. Earthy and slightly dirtier RY4's, prob a good place to look for heavy mixes with good TH.
Dessert like
The sweet selection. Caramel rich, often gooey and occasionally lacking any tobacco at all, these are for the sweet toothed RY4 consumers out there.
Hybrids
The ones that simply couldn't or wouldn't belong anywhere else. some of these are likely not really RY4 at all, they share base characteristics but otherwise should be considered 'special blends', signature mixes of a particular vendor. you'll find some RY3 mixes here also for your consideration.
I have included a top 10 (against some advice admittedly) I've done this because 1: I quite like lists of things 2: It's all very silly really, and you should all be taking anything either i or Bill says about this as 'our personal findings' rather then gospel truth. 3: I like to imagine 'a whole lotta love' playing in the back ground as my top 10 gets read out each week, Top of the Pops style!
Balanced:
Janty Elixir RY4 18mg PG:
The best RY4 around. Pure and clean, sweet and slightly sour, not sweet enough to be sickly and not Tobacco heavy enough to dry you out. Beautifully balanced. Highly likely to be the original RY4 now considered lost.
I-vapour elixir RY4 11mg PG:
Not quite as good as the janty, but still a great RY4. Prob needs to be 18mg, it's mild. Needs to steep, but not excessively so. Easy to vape all day.
Vapour world uk RY4 intense 50/50 PG / VG 24mg:
Incredibly strong RY4. Sourness like the Janty, (possibly the Dekang origins?) very tobacco heavy mix, thick liquid, the thickest I've yet vaped. Lots of vapour from this stuff and a very strong TH at 24mg, possibly too strong for me. Needs to be steeped, slightly chemical when fresh. After 2 weeks steeping this juice truly shines into a beautiful RY4. The TH is less harsh after steeping and the rich caramel bass tones come out to soften the tobacco. A wonderful blend, one of the best around.
Tobacco Heavy
Paradise vapes uk 50/50 PG/VG 18mg
This RY4 needs lots of steeping, incredibly subtle if you vape fresh. Heavy on tobacco and largely flavorless without 2 weeks steeping, probably needs a month or more though. When properly steeped, caramel more pronounced, but still a tobacco heavy mix. Can vape all day, but there's more flavorful mixes around. No vanilla here.
A quick disclaimer here as i see you a little confused by just 'one entry' under tobacco heavy. To be honest other RY4 mixes Ive tried could fit this category, but it was only later after trying many mixes, allowing for steeping time etc that actually, an awful lot of tobacco heavy RY4's are in fact just balanced when left to steep. I suspect when it comes to tobacco rich mixes, you guys over the other side of the pond have it better with BWB and others.
Dessert like
The Titan fluid RY4: Totally wicked 18mg - 11mg PG only
Solid dependable juice. Easy to vape all day. A dessert RY4, very clean, typically Chinese in simplicity. Its very sweet indeed, sugary caramel all the way.
Paradise vapes uk 50/50 PG/VG 18mg RY4 Caramel
like standard Paradise Vapes RY4, but much sweeter, a dessert mix. Needs steeping still, but less time then above. Vanilla comes out a bit, burnt creme brelee style caramel, pleasant though. Nice to vape, good to mix with stronger RY4's to add sweetness. A slightly chemical taste remains with this juice however, even after months of steeping. I could live with it personally, but others may find it off putting.
ENjuice premium range: 18mg PG PG/VG
RY44 crystal pure PG mix: very dessert like RY4, heavy syrup like, maple syrup rather than caramel. Tobacco is there, but subtle. Vanilla too. A clean liquid, slightly lacking on throat hit and vapour, but still a good all day RY4.
RY44 premium standard PG/VG Mix:
Much like the above, the addition of 50/50 VG makes little diff here really. One of the, if not the sweetest RY4 mixes ive tried. spun sugar like qualities sit softly in the background whilst a soft, buttery like vanilla comes on the exhale.
Pure indulgence, surprisingly complex. *watch this space, theres more to be said about this mix, i have newer, different blends of this mix requiring further review.
Liberty Flights RY4 18mg 50/50:
Average RY4 mix, typically Chinese. Neither special or offensive. Little stands out here. On the sweeter range of the RY mixes. Titan fluid is better.
Freedom smoke USA (ecig wizard in uk) RY4
Sweet and dessert like, but there is also something extra with this stuff, possibly maple syrup flavoring or at least a very syrup like caramel. It's OK, but slightly overrated IMO. As a side note: This liquid is surprisingly dark for an RY4, almost akin to a coffee like mix. The RY5 variant FSUSA do is darker again.
Hybrids
The Titan fluid RY3: Totally wicked 18mg - 11mg PG only
The best RY3 I've tried, very sweet on the caramel, golden syrup like, buttery with hints of popcorn and vanilla. Pure dessert vape, little tobacco.
Cloud 9 Vaping RY3 18mg 50/50
Decent alternative to Titan fluid, but not as good flavor wise. Still buttery, still sweet, but mild. Good when looking for an alternative to RY4.
Freedom smoke USA (ecig wizard in uk) RY5 18mg 50/50
A very odd juice. Vanilla heavy and tobacco strong at the same time. I didn't like this that much, despite my best efforts. Incredibly dark liquid, like a coffee juice. For me it became more and more unpleasant the more i vaped it. Not a success story at all.
Libbero Riskee Yuice 18mg
I've put this here as many consider 'Riskee' made juices to be RY4 mixes. For me this isn't strictly an RY4, its very honey like and actually very unusual. Tobacco rich but swamped by a honey comb like richness which sticks to the mouth and throat for a long time after vaping. Honey cured tobacco, it's actually a very nice mix, but only here for the hybrid curious, i'd never consider this an RY4.
The UK Top 10 RY4(3) Round-up:
#1: Janty Elixir RY4 (ivapour-world uk)
#2: Janty RY4 (ivapour-world uk)
#3: Vapour world UK RY4 Intense Dekang
#4: i-Vapour Elixir RY4
#5: Totally Wicked Titan Fluid RY4
#6: Paradise Vapes UK: RY4
#7: ENjuice RY44 Premium
#8: Totally Wicked Titan Fluid RY3
#9: Pardise Vapes UK: RY4 Caramel
#10: Cloud 9 Vaping RY3
So there is it folks, Janty Elixir is my personal fave RY4 ever...So far. see thats the problem with lists and indeed vaping in general, there will be times where a better juice comes along and knocks it off the top spot. There will also be times where i get sick of the stuff and all other RY4 and go off vaping maple waffles and other non RY4 juices till i return. Its all subjective, my deliciously, sour but balanced Janty, may for you be like pure posion. So dont take it all too seriously, its all a bit of fun and an attempt to put in order, something which can't really be ordered!
Like Bill i'd like to offer out a hand to fellow European vapers, if you think an RY4 needs to be in this list which isn't please let me know with a small detailed description of the e-lqiuid and i'll try and include and update this list as we go. Better yet, if you want to actually send me some RY4 for review i'll do this too. PM is your friend!
Balanced
To be considered 'balanced', that is neither strong on tobacco, vanilla or caramel (the three base elements of any true RY4), rather these balanced mixes represent all three flavors in unison. These should be your first port of call if you are looking for a well blended liquid, id also suggest these to a new RY4 user looking to try the liquid as these probably represent best what an RY4 'should be' in that all elements sing in harmony without overshadowing each other.
Tobacco Heavy
This is fair self explanatory really, an RY4 variant with strong or pronounced tobacco overtones. these are your strong RY4's, the caramel and vanilla take a back seat to tobacco. Earthy and slightly dirtier RY4's, prob a good place to look for heavy mixes with good TH.
Dessert like
The sweet selection. Caramel rich, often gooey and occasionally lacking any tobacco at all, these are for the sweet toothed RY4 consumers out there.
Hybrids
The ones that simply couldn't or wouldn't belong anywhere else. some of these are likely not really RY4 at all, they share base characteristics but otherwise should be considered 'special blends', signature mixes of a particular vendor. you'll find some RY3 mixes here also for your consideration.
I have included a top 10 (against some advice admittedly) I've done this because 1: I quite like lists of things 2: It's all very silly really, and you should all be taking anything either i or Bill says about this as 'our personal findings' rather then gospel truth. 3: I like to imagine 'a whole lotta love' playing in the back ground as my top 10 gets read out each week, Top of the Pops style!
Balanced:
Janty Elixir RY4 18mg PG:
The best RY4 around. Pure and clean, sweet and slightly sour, not sweet enough to be sickly and not Tobacco heavy enough to dry you out. Beautifully balanced. Highly likely to be the original RY4 now considered lost.
I-vapour elixir RY4 11mg PG:
Not quite as good as the janty, but still a great RY4. Prob needs to be 18mg, it's mild. Needs to steep, but not excessively so. Easy to vape all day.
Vapour world uk RY4 intense 50/50 PG / VG 24mg:
Incredibly strong RY4. Sourness like the Janty, (possibly the Dekang origins?) very tobacco heavy mix, thick liquid, the thickest I've yet vaped. Lots of vapour from this stuff and a very strong TH at 24mg, possibly too strong for me. Needs to be steeped, slightly chemical when fresh. After 2 weeks steeping this juice truly shines into a beautiful RY4. The TH is less harsh after steeping and the rich caramel bass tones come out to soften the tobacco. A wonderful blend, one of the best around.
Tobacco Heavy
Paradise vapes uk 50/50 PG/VG 18mg
This RY4 needs lots of steeping, incredibly subtle if you vape fresh. Heavy on tobacco and largely flavorless without 2 weeks steeping, probably needs a month or more though. When properly steeped, caramel more pronounced, but still a tobacco heavy mix. Can vape all day, but there's more flavorful mixes around. No vanilla here.
A quick disclaimer here as i see you a little confused by just 'one entry' under tobacco heavy. To be honest other RY4 mixes Ive tried could fit this category, but it was only later after trying many mixes, allowing for steeping time etc that actually, an awful lot of tobacco heavy RY4's are in fact just balanced when left to steep. I suspect when it comes to tobacco rich mixes, you guys over the other side of the pond have it better with BWB and others.
Dessert like
The Titan fluid RY4: Totally wicked 18mg - 11mg PG only
Solid dependable juice. Easy to vape all day. A dessert RY4, very clean, typically Chinese in simplicity. Its very sweet indeed, sugary caramel all the way.
Paradise vapes uk 50/50 PG/VG 18mg RY4 Caramel
like standard Paradise Vapes RY4, but much sweeter, a dessert mix. Needs steeping still, but less time then above. Vanilla comes out a bit, burnt creme brelee style caramel, pleasant though. Nice to vape, good to mix with stronger RY4's to add sweetness. A slightly chemical taste remains with this juice however, even after months of steeping. I could live with it personally, but others may find it off putting.
ENjuice premium range: 18mg PG PG/VG
RY44 crystal pure PG mix: very dessert like RY4, heavy syrup like, maple syrup rather than caramel. Tobacco is there, but subtle. Vanilla too. A clean liquid, slightly lacking on throat hit and vapour, but still a good all day RY4.
RY44 premium standard PG/VG Mix:
Much like the above, the addition of 50/50 VG makes little diff here really. One of the, if not the sweetest RY4 mixes ive tried. spun sugar like qualities sit softly in the background whilst a soft, buttery like vanilla comes on the exhale.
Pure indulgence, surprisingly complex. *watch this space, theres more to be said about this mix, i have newer, different blends of this mix requiring further review.
Liberty Flights RY4 18mg 50/50:
Average RY4 mix, typically Chinese. Neither special or offensive. Little stands out here. On the sweeter range of the RY mixes. Titan fluid is better.
Freedom smoke USA (ecig wizard in uk) RY4
Sweet and dessert like, but there is also something extra with this stuff, possibly maple syrup flavoring or at least a very syrup like caramel. It's OK, but slightly overrated IMO. As a side note: This liquid is surprisingly dark for an RY4, almost akin to a coffee like mix. The RY5 variant FSUSA do is darker again.
Hybrids
The Titan fluid RY3: Totally wicked 18mg - 11mg PG only
The best RY3 I've tried, very sweet on the caramel, golden syrup like, buttery with hints of popcorn and vanilla. Pure dessert vape, little tobacco.
Cloud 9 Vaping RY3 18mg 50/50
Decent alternative to Titan fluid, but not as good flavor wise. Still buttery, still sweet, but mild. Good when looking for an alternative to RY4.
Freedom smoke USA (ecig wizard in uk) RY5 18mg 50/50
A very odd juice. Vanilla heavy and tobacco strong at the same time. I didn't like this that much, despite my best efforts. Incredibly dark liquid, like a coffee juice. For me it became more and more unpleasant the more i vaped it. Not a success story at all.
Libbero Riskee Yuice 18mg
I've put this here as many consider 'Riskee' made juices to be RY4 mixes. For me this isn't strictly an RY4, its very honey like and actually very unusual. Tobacco rich but swamped by a honey comb like richness which sticks to the mouth and throat for a long time after vaping. Honey cured tobacco, it's actually a very nice mix, but only here for the hybrid curious, i'd never consider this an RY4.
The UK Top 10 RY4(3) Round-up:
#1: Janty Elixir RY4 (ivapour-world uk)
#2: Janty RY4 (ivapour-world uk)
#3: Vapour world UK RY4 Intense Dekang
#4: i-Vapour Elixir RY4
#5: Totally Wicked Titan Fluid RY4
#6: Paradise Vapes UK: RY4
#7: ENjuice RY44 Premium
#8: Totally Wicked Titan Fluid RY3
#9: Pardise Vapes UK: RY4 Caramel
#10: Cloud 9 Vaping RY3
So there is it folks, Janty Elixir is my personal fave RY4 ever...So far. see thats the problem with lists and indeed vaping in general, there will be times where a better juice comes along and knocks it off the top spot. There will also be times where i get sick of the stuff and all other RY4 and go off vaping maple waffles and other non RY4 juices till i return. Its all subjective, my deliciously, sour but balanced Janty, may for you be like pure posion. So dont take it all too seriously, its all a bit of fun and an attempt to put in order, something which can't really be ordered!
Like Bill i'd like to offer out a hand to fellow European vapers, if you think an RY4 needs to be in this list which isn't please let me know with a small detailed description of the e-lqiuid and i'll try and include and update this list as we go. Better yet, if you want to actually send me some RY4 for review i'll do this too. PM is your friend!
Z.,
Wonderful! Thanks so much. It's like reading a brand-new thread and having déjà vu at the same time. Baseball and Cricket. Trucks and Lorries. Peanut Butter and Jelly. Football and, well, Football.
Now we have a franchise. Like making "Frankenstein" and then "Bride of Frankenstein" (or, in this case, "Cousin of Frankenstein"). It's the Really Big All-World RY4 Round-up!
Wonderful! Thanks so much. It's like reading a brand-new thread and having déjà vu at the same time. Baseball and Cricket. Trucks and Lorries. Peanut Butter and Jelly. Football and, well, Football.
Now we have a franchise. Like making "Frankenstein" and then "Bride of Frankenstein" (or, in this case, "Cousin of Frankenstein"). It's the Really Big All-World RY4 Round-up!
Bill, thanks for the kind words! I hope to contuine my plans to make this an international list of Ry4! An unexpected finding of both mine and your lists (aside form the obvious fact you've tired many more then I at this point) was a rather susprinsgly slant towards sweeter dessert like Ry4's in the uk... Indeed I find this slightly strange, the English, as far as I am able to know, don't especially favour sweet flavours in either ciggarettes or anywhere else really. I found it odd we were relatively lacking in strong tobacco based blends, it's possible of course a great many more do exsist and are yet to be discovered (watch this space of course!) but that the US should have quite a variety it seems was an interesting find.
The us I do often associate with having a sweeter tooth, indeed a lot of the food over there is higher in sugar then ours this side of the pond. Whilst it may come from unfair stereotyping, I found it an interesting, if unexpected find of our lists so far. To be fair though I do actually think the US is one of the spiritual homes of homegrown tobacco (discovered by Raleigh I believe) I often associate, strong, dry tobacco flavours with the old, untamed image of the American wild west. Possibley too many Seigio Leone cowboy flicks, and heck he was Italian! Lol.
Cuoffrdga:
Vaperite Ry4 has been mentioned in this thread a few times, indeed in the original listing on this thread (pg1) by Bill he placed it at a very respectable No3 in his all time list. It may since of droped (I'll have to check) but you'll find yourself in good stead with such a mix I'm sure. That is unless the blend has changed significantly since the original posting, something that can and does happen often with or without warning from vendors more often then I'd like to be honest.
Edit: a quick check at the bill's latest listings shows vaperite VR4 (organic) at no:4 now, so it's only slipped one place, it's safe to say it's a very, very decent Ry4. And for completions sake it's considered in the caramel heavy mix group FYI.
The us I do often associate with having a sweeter tooth, indeed a lot of the food over there is higher in sugar then ours this side of the pond. Whilst it may come from unfair stereotyping, I found it an interesting, if unexpected find of our lists so far. To be fair though I do actually think the US is one of the spiritual homes of homegrown tobacco (discovered by Raleigh I believe) I often associate, strong, dry tobacco flavours with the old, untamed image of the American wild west. Possibley too many Seigio Leone cowboy flicks, and heck he was Italian! Lol.
Cuoffrdga:
Vaperite Ry4 has been mentioned in this thread a few times, indeed in the original listing on this thread (pg1) by Bill he placed it at a very respectable No3 in his all time list. It may since of droped (I'll have to check) but you'll find yourself in good stead with such a mix I'm sure. That is unless the blend has changed significantly since the original posting, something that can and does happen often with or without warning from vendors more often then I'd like to be honest.
Edit: a quick check at the bill's latest listings shows vaperite VR4 (organic) at no:4 now, so it's only slipped one place, it's safe to say it's a very, very decent Ry4. And for completions sake it's considered in the caramel heavy mix group FYI.
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I need a little help picking a RY4 to try. I want a high VG percentage put don't want it to be really thick or dark.
Here's my desired properties in order of importance.
VG 70% but want it about as thick as PG
light in color
would like to taste the carmel but not dessert sweet.
Tried to figure it out but got lost. thanks to this thread I have some juice on order from Vixen Vapors and Prime Vaping.
Here's my desired properties in order of importance.
VG 70% but want it about as thick as PG
light in color
would like to taste the carmel but not dessert sweet.
Tried to figure it out but got lost. thanks to this thread I have some juice on order from Vixen Vapors and Prime Vaping.
Filthy Beast,
With those criteria, you have plenty of choices. Here are three stellar RY4s from the very top of the Rankings List that fit the bill perfectly:
Janty Elixir RY4
Janty electronic cigarettes, e-liquids and carts - Elixir VG eLiquid RY4 15ml
Ikenvape RY4 Gold VG
IKV RY4 Gold VG Based 70/30 20ml
Prime Vaping PV4
http://www.primevaping.com/tobaccos...ypage_images.tpl&product_id=90&category_id=28
For PV4, you'll have to select the 30/70 blend from the drop-down PG/VG menu. Janty and Ikenvape are both sold only in that 70VG/30PG ratio.
With those criteria, you have plenty of choices. Here are three stellar RY4s from the very top of the Rankings List that fit the bill perfectly:
Janty Elixir RY4
Janty electronic cigarettes, e-liquids and carts - Elixir VG eLiquid RY4 15ml
Ikenvape RY4 Gold VG
IKV RY4 Gold VG Based 70/30 20ml
Prime Vaping PV4
http://www.primevaping.com/tobaccos...ypage_images.tpl&product_id=90&category_id=28
For PV4, you'll have to select the 30/70 blend from the drop-down PG/VG menu. Janty and Ikenvape are both sold only in that 70VG/30PG ratio.
Thanks Bill,
I got a notify request in with Janty, an order for PV4, and IKV was in-stock so I ordered some of that as well. Can't wait to try these in the VPX tank on my Darwin.
I got a notify request in with Janty, an order for PV4, and IKV was in-stock so I ordered some of that as well. Can't wait to try these in the VPX tank on my Darwin.
Back when the Big RY4 Round-up thread began, I posited that the essential flavor ingredients of RY4 were tobacco, caramel, and vanilla. At the time, I felt that this "formula" of three ingredients provided a much-needed structure or benchmark for identifying what is an RY4 versus what isn't.
However, the three-ingredient formula is obviously an oversimplification. For one thing, caramel typically contains vanilla. For another, some caramels are made with dairy (milk and or butter), and different sugars may be substituted, as well as differing levels and intensities of sweetness.
Historically, "caramel" was not a flavor at all. Instead, it was a culinary process ("caramelization" or browning) describing visual, physical/chemical, and taste changes (browning) that occur when carbohydrate (starch or sugar) is slowly heated. A common starch caramelization is heating bread to make toast. The same phenomenon with proteins (as in searing or browning the surface of meat) is called a "Maillard reaction."
In modern society, however, with its mass marketing of synthetic or artificial foods, caramel and butterscotch are now considered flavors more than cooking processes. As a result, "caramel flavoring" can include a wide range of ingredients and tastes.
Here are some additional ingredient flavors that might be used as subtle flavor elements in RY4s and RY4-variants. This list is far from inclusive, but it will serve to give a few examples:
My own instinctive, gut-level answer is "No. Chocolate is verboten in RY4s." My reasoning would be that---unlike ice cream, where chocolate and vanilla play together quite nicely---in e-liquids, chocolate is an unwelcome intruder in vanilla country (which is the RY4 realm). Like mustard and ketchup, it's one or the other, but not both. As always, that's just my opinion, of course.
I'm curious, however, to learn how other members of our thread feel. Let us know---yea or nay---and if you will, tell us why or why not. This is just an informal poll/discussion to keep us entertained between further RY4 reviews, more of which are on the way...
However, the three-ingredient formula is obviously an oversimplification. For one thing, caramel typically contains vanilla. For another, some caramels are made with dairy (milk and or butter), and different sugars may be substituted, as well as differing levels and intensities of sweetness.
Historically, "caramel" was not a flavor at all. Instead, it was a culinary process ("caramelization" or browning) describing visual, physical/chemical, and taste changes (browning) that occur when carbohydrate (starch or sugar) is slowly heated. A common starch caramelization is heating bread to make toast. The same phenomenon with proteins (as in searing or browning the surface of meat) is called a "Maillard reaction."
In modern society, however, with its mass marketing of synthetic or artificial foods, caramel and butterscotch are now considered flavors more than cooking processes. As a result, "caramel flavoring" can include a wide range of ingredients and tastes.
Here are some additional ingredient flavors that might be used as subtle flavor elements in RY4s and RY4-variants. This list is far from inclusive, but it will serve to give a few examples:
dairy - milk, cream, butter
caramel variants - butterscotch, toffee
sugars/candies - cotton candy, marshmallow (plain or toasted), brown sugar, crème brûlée,
molasses, maple or maple syrup, corn or corn syrup, honey, ethyl maltol, sucralose
liquors/liqueurs - brandy, rum, whiskey, bourbon, irish cream
fruits - all the usual suspects
miscellaneous - menthol, mint, vinegar, salt
chilies/peppers - black pepper, cayenne, jalapeno, serrano, horseradish/wasabi
spices - anise/licorice/fennel, cardamom/ginger, cinnamon, nutmeg
This post is actually a question about a specific flavor. The flavor is chocolate. The question is: Can an RY4 contain chocolate and still qualify as a bonafide RY4?caramel variants - butterscotch, toffee
sugars/candies - cotton candy, marshmallow (plain or toasted), brown sugar, crème brûlée,
molasses, maple or maple syrup, corn or corn syrup, honey, ethyl maltol, sucralose
liquors/liqueurs - brandy, rum, whiskey, bourbon, irish cream
fruits - all the usual suspects
miscellaneous - menthol, mint, vinegar, salt
chilies/peppers - black pepper, cayenne, jalapeno, serrano, horseradish/wasabi
spices - anise/licorice/fennel, cardamom/ginger, cinnamon, nutmeg
My own instinctive, gut-level answer is "No. Chocolate is verboten in RY4s." My reasoning would be that---unlike ice cream, where chocolate and vanilla play together quite nicely---in e-liquids, chocolate is an unwelcome intruder in vanilla country (which is the RY4 realm). Like mustard and ketchup, it's one or the other, but not both. As always, that's just my opinion, of course.
I'm curious, however, to learn how other members of our thread feel. Let us know---yea or nay---and if you will, tell us why or why not. This is just an informal poll/discussion to keep us entertained between further RY4 reviews, more of which are on the way...
Copper Creek's House Blend is one of the few I can think of where a chocolate and vanilla vape work. House Blend reminds me of a chocolate vanilla swirl ice cream cone (dipped in nuts). Just MMMmmm.
That said, NO. I don't want any chocolate in my RY4. I like it sweet or a bit sour, caramel heavy or light, strong tobacco or cake-like. I can deal with a bit of nuttiness or even a cotton candy. But chocolate, even in small amounts will overpower other flavors.
Now I must admit my palate has a long way to go before I can detect each ingredient in a nicquid. I often have trouble telling what is in a carto, if I fail to mark it. "Tastes like Strawberry Lemonade." "No, it is Sweet Tart." "Well, at least it is sort of the same genre."
But I can honestly say that I can tell the difference of each of my 10 RY4s. Each is very distinct. Some have a strong tobacco. Some have a cookie flavor. Some have great TH, some great vapor. But none have cocoa as an ingredient, and that's the way I like it.
That said, NO. I don't want any chocolate in my RY4. I like it sweet or a bit sour, caramel heavy or light, strong tobacco or cake-like. I can deal with a bit of nuttiness or even a cotton candy. But chocolate, even in small amounts will overpower other flavors.
Now I must admit my palate has a long way to go before I can detect each ingredient in a nicquid. I often have trouble telling what is in a carto, if I fail to mark it. "Tastes like Strawberry Lemonade." "No, it is Sweet Tart." "Well, at least it is sort of the same genre."
But I can honestly say that I can tell the difference of each of my 10 RY4s. Each is very distinct. Some have a strong tobacco. Some have a cookie flavor. Some have great TH, some great vapor. But none have cocoa as an ingredient, and that's the way I like it.
FWIW, I agree - I don't want chocolate in my RY4. It's a lovely flavour without it.
It's an interesting question because some of us accept other flavor such as nut and still call it RY4, but if it has too much nut it's 555 even if the other elements are caramel, vanilla and bacco. Your category breakdown in itself displays a wide array of mixes that qualify, so what if a juice hits the major notes but has additional notes that others don't have? Or was there some nut in the original so should we punish those that don't have it? If we do allow/disallow other flavors for variants are we arbitrary in accepting or not? If we accept it as a minor note, what if it becomes a major? Lots of questions.
Would we be as harsh on a juice that's using a more complex bacco base? I recently taste-tested Goodejuice's Natural Perique which is made by macerating real Perique and if used as a base it would be adding some distinctive fruit flavor, to me kind of more compote or dried, like prunes, rather than real fruit. Would that no longer be considered RY4? Just because it used a different bacco base?
To me it would but I can see where others wouldn't. Then off course there's the camp that don't consider it RY4 unless it matches what they vaper up to '99. (Reminds me of a line from "Hotel California". Considering that caramel and vanilla don't really have variants, just better to worse, bacco flavor is the only one that could vary while strictly staying in the formula. Besides that, many chocolate juices just miss the mark so all in all..........No choc for me.
Would we be as harsh on a juice that's using a more complex bacco base? I recently taste-tested Goodejuice's Natural Perique which is made by macerating real Perique and if used as a base it would be adding some distinctive fruit flavor, to me kind of more compote or dried, like prunes, rather than real fruit. Would that no longer be considered RY4? Just because it used a different bacco base?
To me it would but I can see where others wouldn't. Then off course there's the camp that don't consider it RY4 unless it matches what they vaper up to '99. (Reminds me of a line from "Hotel California". Considering that caramel and vanilla don't really have variants, just better to worse, bacco flavor is the only one that could vary while strictly staying in the formula. Besides that, many chocolate juices just miss the mark so all in all..........No choc for me.
Ceegary,
You beat me to the punch with your post. My next question was going to be about tobacco bases. Given all the different kinds of varieties of tobacco---virginia, turkish, burley, perique, etc---and the many infinite blends possible, as well as the varying sources---essence versus extract, synthetic chemist's lab versus macerated natural tobacco, simple versus complex tobacco bases---I wondered if folks might feel that one kind or formulation of tobacco was better suited to RY4s. I haven't really thought through this issue enough to even pose the right questions yet. Your post reminds me, however, that nothing stands alone with RY4s---every element interacts with and affects every other element.
When I wrote the post about chocolate, I had no idea or expectation about the responses. I really had no clue as to how people might feel. So far, all the initial responses indicate agreement about chocolate not being especially suited to RY4. Seems to me that chocolate is a tough flavor to get right in any juice, not just RY4. For me personally, I've blown a lot of money on chocolate juices that I won't vape often, if at all (Chocolate Fudge Brownie comes to mind), because the descriptions sound so yummy. That's not a knock on the juicemakers and vendors, by the way. But the few juices I find amazing that include chocolate---such as Copper Creek House Blend and Prime Vaping Nostalgia---don't use it as a primary flavor component. Instead, they employ chocolate sparingly and subtly, more as a background hint than an up-front taste. Less is more, apparently, which may be why I like BWB Café Mocha so much. Another example is that I'm beginning to like ECBlend's Chocolate Hazelnut Tobacco quite a bit.
And then, as you wrote, there's the whole nuts or no nuts thing. Oy. Whenever the thread gets quiet for a day or two, I think to myself, "Wait a minute, there are so many issues and questions concerning RY4s that we haven't even brought up yet for discussion." Besides the obvious stuff of what's good and digging up the history of where RY4 came from, I mean. Reviews may be at the core of the thread, but they can keep us interested only so long. I guess we can start kicking around all the other issues now.
You beat me to the punch with your post. My next question was going to be about tobacco bases. Given all the different kinds of varieties of tobacco---virginia, turkish, burley, perique, etc---and the many infinite blends possible, as well as the varying sources---essence versus extract, synthetic chemist's lab versus macerated natural tobacco, simple versus complex tobacco bases---I wondered if folks might feel that one kind or formulation of tobacco was better suited to RY4s. I haven't really thought through this issue enough to even pose the right questions yet. Your post reminds me, however, that nothing stands alone with RY4s---every element interacts with and affects every other element.
When I wrote the post about chocolate, I had no idea or expectation about the responses. I really had no clue as to how people might feel. So far, all the initial responses indicate agreement about chocolate not being especially suited to RY4. Seems to me that chocolate is a tough flavor to get right in any juice, not just RY4. For me personally, I've blown a lot of money on chocolate juices that I won't vape often, if at all (Chocolate Fudge Brownie comes to mind), because the descriptions sound so yummy. That's not a knock on the juicemakers and vendors, by the way. But the few juices I find amazing that include chocolate---such as Copper Creek House Blend and Prime Vaping Nostalgia---don't use it as a primary flavor component. Instead, they employ chocolate sparingly and subtly, more as a background hint than an up-front taste. Less is more, apparently, which may be why I like BWB Café Mocha so much. Another example is that I'm beginning to like ECBlend's Chocolate Hazelnut Tobacco quite a bit.
And then, as you wrote, there's the whole nuts or no nuts thing. Oy. Whenever the thread gets quiet for a day or two, I think to myself, "Wait a minute, there are so many issues and questions concerning RY4s that we haven't even brought up yet for discussion." Besides the obvious stuff of what's good and digging up the history of where RY4 came from, I mean. Reviews may be at the core of the thread, but they can keep us interested only so long. I guess we can start kicking around all the other issues now.
I think it's akin to saying mint chocolate ice-cream is still a mint ice-cream... 'technically it has those elements still, but no, it's not a mint ice-cream in isolation, it's a hybrid', this is Irrespective of there being an infinite number of different tastes and versions of what amounts to 'the same basic thing'.
RY4 we know to be based on one single receipe (one with it's own story and history worthy of a book or film quite frankly) and that original receipe (what many of us here in this thread now consider the janty mix) does not contain chocolate. The base elements are caramel, vanilla and tobacco. I take your point about how different ingredients may go into the making of those base elements, but that is why almost all Ry4 mixes are so dramatically different. The difference bwteen a green and blacks chocolate and a caburys dairy milk is worlds apart, but on the face of it, their base ingredients are nearly identical. In fact they are both actually made by the same company! But the end product differs hugely.
I'll contuine to look at our base elements as the grounding of what I'd consider a 'typical RY4'. It's those flavours in tandem we all fell in love with and consider our 'all day vape' dependable juices. If a variant comes along with those base elements and contains something else, that's fine, but should be categoriesed as a Hybrid mix. It's why I was keen to introduce the category in my own listings I think. Signature blends or one off vendor mixes have their place, but should be duely noted as being 'different' or 'unusual' mixes in the already deep and mysterious world of Ry4.
Before I got heavily involved in vaping and juices etc, there I was with a silly little super mini kit and some pre filled carts and during my research days I kept seeing this juice name: RY4. I had no idea what it was. Trouble was, until I came to ECF and this thread, it appears most others didn't either! I kept reading: It was a mysterious mix and hard to describe. Almost everyone agreed it had tobacco, caramel and some vanilla but often I'd see talk of a mysterious 4th or even 5th ingredient. I think there is more to RY4 on the surface then simply saying it is 'tobacco, caramel and vanilla' which is why threads like this and other review sites are vital.
But I do maintain we have to have a base to start from, one that's established and agreed upon before we can really discuss the other variants and hybrids which may later appear I think. For me that base is Janty, probably because, (with some room for manoeuvre granted) that mix is largely considered to now be the 'original recipe' or at the very least as close as we'll ever come today.
Just as an absolute, personal opinion aside: I absolutely hate choloate in my vapes. I've yet to try a single one I liked and I have tried many as I rather like chocolate as a foodstuff, but to vape it simply doesn't work for me. Every variant from any number of vendors I have tried has a horrible burnt, slightly metallic aftertaste to it which is deeply unpleasant to me. Whilst I'd certianly try an RY4 chocolate hybrid, I'd be amazed if that chocolate added anything to the mix rather then the deeply unpleasant metallic aftertaste described above. It would need to be incredibly sutble, a creamy, dairy milk inspired chocolate (more sugar and butter then coca if we are honest) and would need to be blended expertly with the tobacco to work I think.
RY4 we know to be based on one single receipe (one with it's own story and history worthy of a book or film quite frankly) and that original receipe (what many of us here in this thread now consider the janty mix) does not contain chocolate. The base elements are caramel, vanilla and tobacco. I take your point about how different ingredients may go into the making of those base elements, but that is why almost all Ry4 mixes are so dramatically different. The difference bwteen a green and blacks chocolate and a caburys dairy milk is worlds apart, but on the face of it, their base ingredients are nearly identical. In fact they are both actually made by the same company! But the end product differs hugely.
I'll contuine to look at our base elements as the grounding of what I'd consider a 'typical RY4'. It's those flavours in tandem we all fell in love with and consider our 'all day vape' dependable juices. If a variant comes along with those base elements and contains something else, that's fine, but should be categoriesed as a Hybrid mix. It's why I was keen to introduce the category in my own listings I think. Signature blends or one off vendor mixes have their place, but should be duely noted as being 'different' or 'unusual' mixes in the already deep and mysterious world of Ry4.
Before I got heavily involved in vaping and juices etc, there I was with a silly little super mini kit and some pre filled carts and during my research days I kept seeing this juice name: RY4. I had no idea what it was. Trouble was, until I came to ECF and this thread, it appears most others didn't either! I kept reading: It was a mysterious mix and hard to describe. Almost everyone agreed it had tobacco, caramel and some vanilla but often I'd see talk of a mysterious 4th or even 5th ingredient. I think there is more to RY4 on the surface then simply saying it is 'tobacco, caramel and vanilla' which is why threads like this and other review sites are vital.
But I do maintain we have to have a base to start from, one that's established and agreed upon before we can really discuss the other variants and hybrids which may later appear I think. For me that base is Janty, probably because, (with some room for manoeuvre granted) that mix is largely considered to now be the 'original recipe' or at the very least as close as we'll ever come today.
Just as an absolute, personal opinion aside: I absolutely hate choloate in my vapes. I've yet to try a single one I liked and I have tried many as I rather like chocolate as a foodstuff, but to vape it simply doesn't work for me. Every variant from any number of vendors I have tried has a horrible burnt, slightly metallic aftertaste to it which is deeply unpleasant to me. Whilst I'd certianly try an RY4 chocolate hybrid, I'd be amazed if that chocolate added anything to the mix rather then the deeply unpleasant metallic aftertaste described above. It would need to be incredibly sutble, a creamy, dairy milk inspired chocolate (more sugar and butter then coca if we are honest) and would need to be blended expertly with the tobacco to work I think.
Has anyone heard anything about a change in NLV's Renegade RY4 recipe? I ordered a 10ml bottle on my first order and it was a light-ish amber color and I fell in love with the flavor. On my next order I picked up two 30ml bottles and it's now a reddish-orange color and the flavor is not the same. It has more of a chemical/alcohol flavor to it that I don't much care for...
I agree 100%.
Tobacco, caramel, and vanilla are the base flavors. Period.
Those three are the "holy trinity of RY4" in much the same way as mirepoix in traditional French cuisine, the combination of onions, carrots and celery aromatics (or onions, bell peppers, and celery in Louisiana Cajun and Creole cooking).
Ludo, the co-owner of Janty who "created" and named the first-ever RY4, told us that he and the chemist started out with the base flavors and then worked all day to refine the juice by changing proportions in the mix and experimenting with additional ingredients to arrive at a juice formula they not only liked but felt was special (which it was and still is). They called it Ruyan 4 (shortened to RY4) because the final juice was their fourth remix of the day. The lower-numbered RYs (RY1-3) came many months after, not before, and Ludo was not involved in their backward engineering. So, we know for certain (or as close to certainty as we outsiders will ever get) that the original RY4 contains extra ingredients, but they are used not so much as obvious flavors, but modifiers for balance and to enhance the overall impact.
Basically, every RY4 that came after the Janty original is an RY4-variant, including the fabled lost Dekang recipe. In the ever-expanding world of RY4s, some of these newer variants are attempts to clone close facsimiles of the either the Janty original or the early Dekang variant. Others are creative experiments using the base flavors of RY4 as a jumping-off point for flights of fancy or ersatz exaggeration.
The only question in this for me is whether a new variant should be named "RY4" or "something else" (such as Tribeca, Halo's version of RY4, or the new Alien Visions' offering, Raf-a-licious), and that's essentially a judgment call on the part of the vendor.
goodtimes,
Gene at NLV has stated to customers that he created a second version of Renegade to increase the flavor intensity.
I would imagine that they will make you the "old" version if you asked (and if it is possible). The customer service there is exemplary (good).
Hey Bill, I noticed that you listed Vapor Station VS4 in both "Stronger Tobacco (less sweet)" and "Balanced/Blended".... but their RY4 didn't make any of these sub-lists... Were one of these instances intended for their "RY4"? Thanks! 
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