The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)

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billherbst

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Can someone recommend a percentage to mix Perfumer's Apprentice RY4-Doubled at?

Cool,

I'd say to start off at 10% on a small quantity---3-5 mls total juice. Shakeshakeshake. Atty drip test. If that's too "subtle" (weak), then double the flavoring to 20%. From there, go up further (if necessary) only in very small increments, like 2% more at a time, since jumping right to 30% might ruin the juice for you. Each time you add flavoring (if you do), recalculate and add the extra nic and base you'll need. But you know that, of course.

20% is a standard benchmark for many flavorings, but that's not a dependable rule. Some flavorings are more concentrated and work best at 5-10%. Others need 30% for the flavors to pop. A very few, such as Diablo Loco and Tobacco Absolute, are so concentrated that they require significant thinning before use, and even then are best applied by adding only one drop at a time. Learning from experience (meaning failures) is part of the journey for DIYers.

Experimentation is required. DIY juice-making isn't a paint-by-numbers kit. Well, it is, actually, but you make up the numbers yourself. So, bring out the mad scientist from inside, and be prepared to pour lots of juice down the drain. LOL.
 

sanjosse

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sanjosse,

Flavor strength: 15% M-80 for both juices.

The RY4 might be interesting with more flavoring---less subtle, but with more impact. I think the RY5 would be over-the-top with more than 15%, however. But then, I'm just guessing about that.

Cool, that's what I ordered. It's too bad that I wont get until next week cause of VapeStock :-(, but on the bright side, my BWB RY4 turns 1 month old in a couple days :) Man that stuff is SO GOOD!
 

Cool_Breeze

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Thanks, Bill.

I've been doing DIY for a while. Some flavorings have 'recommended' starting percentages. At best even these recommendations are a rule of thumb. Most that I've done have been FlavourArt at +/- 5%. I've not had experience with Perfumer's Apprentice flavors. That's not to suggest that all flavors from a manufactuer might be used in similar amounts.

Thanks for your comments and I'll follow your 10% 3-5 mls suggestion for starters.
 

billherbst

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First off, my sincere thanks to the hangdude for sending me nearly full 5ml bottles of these juices. His generosity in passing on to me some of his hand-me-downs is helping to keep my reviews alive. I really appreciate that.

Both these juices are nearly clear liquids, with just a slight golden tint, at 18mg nic concentration in a mostly-VG base (90%VG/10%PG). They’re both extremely thick and would probably benefit from a little thinning with vodka, everclear, or distilled water for use in a carto tank. Throat hit is mild at 18mg nic, and vapor production is copius for each one, as we would expect from mostly-VG.

ecizusa STB Tobacco
When I first got ready to test the STB Tobacco (“STB” is an acronym for “Simply The Best”) by atty-dripping, I blew out the remaining juice from the trusty 1.8 ohm LR306 I use as my standard test atty, then added five drops of the very thick (90%VG/10%PG) liquid. At 4.4 volts, I took a toke and thought, “How weird---lemon tobacco.” Then I realized that the juice I’d just blown out of the LR306 was a Lemonade diy juice I’d recently made up, and that was the reason I was tasting lemon. Ack! Juice contamination! Lemon’s a particularly hard flavor to purge from an atty when changing juices. Menthol and mint also tend to linger after cleaning.

So, I swapped out the LR306 for a standby 1.5 ohm LR510 bonut-modified atty I had within easy reach on my desk. Lower resistance requires lower voltage. I clicked down the voltage on the Vtube a couple tenths to 4.2 and took a hit. Yuk. Nasty, burnt taste. I turned it down again to 4.0 and took another hit. Still burnt. Finally, after going all the way down to 3.7 volts, I found the sweet spot and the real flavor.

How was it? Quite good, actually. Smooth, subtle, but still tasty, with the tobacco flavor wrapped in the creaminess of the almost-all-VG base. It reminded me again why I prefer American-made tobacco flavors to the Dekang Chinese tobacco flavors. Dekang’s flavors are just too specific for my palate. They leave no wiggle room for my brain to improvise. Many of the American-made custom tobacco blend juices are somewhat more vague, or at least not so laser-focused in their flavor profiles, which in this context is a good thing. They let my brain more easily fill out the flavor by association, morphing it a little, and literally improving it.

Does this juice justify its superlative acronym---Simply The Best? I don’t know about that, but it does compare favorably with my current two favorite straight tobacco juices (by “straight,” I mean juices that allow the tobacco to be the star and shine through on center-stage, rather than the many “candied” blends, such as Vanilla Tobacco or Caramel Tobacco, where dessert flavors may compete or even overwhelm the tobacco. As an example, Vermillion River Kentucky Premium Blend and NLV Bounty Hunter are both delicious juices, but neither is what I consider “straight” tobacco). My two current favorites for straight tobacco are MrVapes Special Blend and Aroma Turkish Blend (without WTA). STB Tobacco isn’t quite on a par with either of my faves---they're both fantastic, while STB is just pleasing---but it leans in the same direction of smooth, creamy goodness.

I’m impressed that STB does so well at “low” voltage (I hardly vape at 3.7 volts anymore). The downside is that---at least with my particular test equipment---STB doesn’t hold up well at any voltage from 4.0 volts on up. The juice seems to burn very easily.


ecigzusa RY4
If you put Janty Elixir RY4 at one end and STB Tobacco at the other, ecigzusa RY4 is not close to the Janty end of the scale. It’s not even in the middle. It’s much closer to STB Tobacco than it is to just about any RY4 I can think of. I’d say it’s essentially STB with a hint of caramel and the slightest wisp of vanilla.

The owner of ecigzusa (who is, I presume, the juice-maker/creator of ecigzusa’s juices) left a post on the ecigzusa thread in the Supplier’s Forum stating, half-jokingly, that he’d considered calling this juice “not-RY4.” I think that’s a good idea, for it’s not truly RY4-enough to be called “RY4.”

Not that it’s a bad juice. I like it just about as well as I liked the STB. Maybe a tad less, perhaps a bit more. Hard to judge. It would probably depend on my mood. The RY4 is somewhat sweeter than the STB, but both juices are really very good. Neither has any off-tones or odd flavor elements that detract from enjoyment, and their core flavors are smooth and yummy.

Each juice is an all-day-vape candidate rather than a knock-your-socks-off, in-your-face juice. They’re subtle but satisfying, and I think many people could vape one or the other of these juices (which they’d prefer depends on how much of a sweet tooth they have) for a long time without getting tired of them. You marry juices like this for the long-term rather than court them in a torrid or romantic love affair. They offer friendship much more than passion. Agape rather than eros. And friendship can be a very good thing.

As it so happens, I’ve been introduced recently to a significant number of new RY4s and tobacco blends that are very subtle. My palate is grateful for this, because for me, intensely flavored juices tend to be either extremely good or extremely bad. Even when they’re good, though, there’s something about intensely flavored juices that becomes quickly “too much” for my palate. Flavor overkill. Juices with a combination of subtlety and wonderful taste, such as MrVapes Special Blend, MrVapes RY4, and Aroma Turkish Blend are preferable to my taste buds, even though I’m not an all-day-vape kind of guy.

Well, add these two ecigzusa juices to that list (and one sort-of-RY4 to the Big List). I’m happy to make their acquaintance.

ecigzusa STB Tobacco
ecigzusa RY4
 

billherbst

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I agree with Cool_Breeze that VermillionRiver Kentucky Vanilla is a benchmark. Vanilla Love by AltCig is another one that comes to mind, although the vanilla in that blend is a bit stronger than I'd prefer. Luckily, AltCig uses a very good vanilla flavoring, so I don't mind.

Vanilla Tobaccos aren't quite as ubiquitous as RY4s, but I'd venture a guess that probably 50 or more vendors sell one.

I've also taken to adding various vanillas to some of my personal favorite tobacco blends to produce semi-DIY versions: GoodEJuice Vita Bella with Vanilla, for instance.
 

On Target

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Thank you Bill for starting this thread. I have read it from start to finish and I must say it has really steered me in many directions as to what vendor's to consider for different juices, not only the ry4's. I am still a relative newbie (had my last analog on 4/20/12) and I was lucky enough to get my hands on one of the BWB 30ml bottles from their last batch. I loved it at first, couple weeks later was so-so, and now I just really do not care much for it. Granted, it has only steeped a few weeks, but with steeping time it seems to me to be getting worse. Could be that 38 years of analogs has allowed my taste buds to revive so much that everything tastes different to me now than it did a few weeks ago. I really like the PV4 and vape it every morning as it really goes good with my java. I bought a 10ml bottle of Dekang last week and tried it. Did not really expect to like it but it was OK, better to me than BWB but I do detect that "cool aid" taste that others have mentioned and I really am not crazy about this sensation. Bill you mentioned you used to have Casablanca from BWB in your daily rotation but now you no longer crave it as much - I am the same, loved it at first - still vape it daily but it is getting less and less vape time. Now I am considering spending MORE money and experiment on other juices. I like what I have been reading about Mountain Oak and will probably pull the trigger and get a sampler pack this week. And hey, they are only about an hour drive from my home and if for no other reason, support the locals so to speak.

The only other RY4's i have tried are Tribeca (cannot stand their base, maybe will like after 8 months LOL) and Quic Nic (pretty good, but like PV4 better). Again, thanks for starting this thread, it has been an educational tool for me. My wife even commented she has NEVER seen me spend this much time reading anything. :)
 

billherbst

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On Target,

One of my "rules" about vaping (I don't "obey" it because it's a rule; rather, I recognized that it was a rule for me because I experienced it all the time) is that I completely accept my own likes and dislikes. The only person I have to please in vaping is myself, so I never second-guess or give myself grief about any of it. Posting on ECF is entirely different, of course, since it's inherently social. I try as best I can in my posts and reviews to consider the perspectives of others and not belittle or slam them. But privately, in my own apartment, the minute I stop liking a certain juice or PV or atty or whatever, I change it. Without a moment's hesitation.

Sorry, I don't mean to preach. You're obviously doing fine without any advice. Your post just got me thinking about the changing kaleidoscope of what pleases us and what doesn't. One great thing about RY4s is that there are so many of them---if we looked up one day and were suddenly fed up with 20 RY4s we had previously liked, that's OK, because there are 180 more to choose from.

I can remember loving both BWB RY4 and PrimeVaping PV4. Then, after awhile, I no longer loved them. I mean, I really didn't love them. Then, still later, I made up with PV4 and became at least moderately friendly to BWB RY4. Go figure. I happen to feel that both are very well-made juices created by people I like and respect. I won't bad rap either juice. But so what? Either I like them or I don't.

That's why it's all OK, because the only person I have to please is myself.
 

Briar

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I also enjoy this thread very much, though I don't post often. It re-introduced me to RY4, which was my second-ever juice when I started vaping (Ecopure was the first, because it came with my 510 kit - but I still rather like it once in a while).

The interesting thing is that, while I have general preferences, I pretty much like everything - as long as it's good quality flavor: no chemical taste, strong enough to figure out what it is, has more than just a couple of notes, components don't hate each other, etc.

I mean, some flavors are just plain bad, like so many chocolates and coffees that pretty much taste like a year old burnt coffee ground and/or dirty dish water... But other than that? I've never really disliked a good quality flavor, to be honest.

Recently, for instance, I tried MOV Classic Country RY4 (writing a long review on it) and VS4. Different as night and day, and I really like them both. :)

I suppose the reason is that I have 30 cartos filled with 30 different juices sitting next to me at all times, and I just sort of vape according to whatever mood strikes me. I never get tired of any particular juice because I never vape it long at one time. :D

See, I learned my lesson. At one time, I thought that I was supposed to have an "all day vape". Tried Boba's and fell in love. Vaped nothing but Boba's for a week straight. And then woke up one morning and hated it's guts, it's smell, it's color, it's bottle, and even the thought of it. For that matter, I pretty much hated *vaping* at that point. The idea of vape made me nauseous. Flavorless and Ecopure saved my .... from butts, but I didn't touch any other flavors for two weeks. And then, for some reason, couldn't touch nutty stuff for months - even though Boba's doesn't really have a nutty flavor. I think. Who really knows, with Boba's...

So, after that, I gave up on the idea of one special juice. I like lots of them, and use lots of them every day. I have 1st tier and 2nd tier juices, and swap them around once in a while, but that's about it. Heck, even Boba's has come back into my repertoire, after about a year steeping. LOL It kinda tastes different now.

So - no divorces or break-ups or make-ups for me. Good thing, too, 'cause I like doing detailed reviews, I found, and I would *hate* giving a bad review to something. I avoid that by only buying stuff that other reviewers I like recommend. LOL
 

ogredog

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Passer if you were implying I don't has them lol I took this when I received them!
 

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EleanorR

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Bill and others,

Which 'just-tobacco-n-vanilla' e-liquids do you recommend !?

I heartily recommend Darth Vaper's Vanilla Tobacco (I get it 70/30 pg/vg, with extra flavor). It's a nice, medium-woody natural-extraction tobacco with a delicious vanilla punch, and very carto friendly. :)

Darth Vapers - Custom Blended E-Liquid
 

On Target

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On Target,

One of my "rules" about vaping (I don't "obey" it because it's a rule; rather, I recognized that it was a rule for me because I experienced it all the time) is that I completely accept my own likes and dislikes. The only person I have to please in vaping is myself, so I never second-guess or give myself grief about any of it. Posting on ECF is entirely different, of course, since it's inherently social. I try as best I can in my posts and reviews to consider the perspectives of others and not belittle or slam them. But privately, in my own apartment, the minute I stop liking a certain juice or PV or atty or whatever, I change it. Without a moment's hesitation.

Sorry, I don't mean to preach. You're obviously doing fine without any advice. Your post just got me thinking about the changing kaleidoscope of what pleases us and what doesn't. One great thing about RY4s is that there are so many of them---if we looked up one day and were suddenly fed up with 20 RY4s we had previously liked, that's OK, because there are 180 more to choose from.

I can remember loving both BWB RY4 and PrimeVaping PV4. Then, after awhile, I no longer loved them. I mean, I really didn't love them. Then, still later, I made up with PV4 and became at least moderately friendly to BWB RY4. Go figure. I happen to feel that both are very well-made juices created by people I like and respect. I won't bad rap either juice. But so what? Either I like them or I don't.

That's why it's all OK, because the only person I have to please is myself.

Bill, I totally forgot one RY4 I had put away in my juice box and it is the very first one I bought back in April. It is from "E-Smoke Premium ejuice". I know you have already reviewed e-smoke riskee juice but I do not think this is the same company. Anyway, I did not like it at all when I first tried it (first RY4 i found on Google, bought before I found this thread), thought it had no taste at all.

I brought it out of my juice box this morning and put a tank into my twist set at 4 volts and to my surprise, it was nothing like I remembered. Very good juice. It is 24 mg of nic and a little stronger that my usual 18 mg now(went with 24mg on my first few purchases to ensure I took care of my nic fix) but it is a pleasure to vape now. The vanilla and caramel are not present on the inhale but are very present upon exhale. Neither flavor is dominant, very well balanced and there is a creamy caramel/vanilla blend after taste on my palate that is very smooth. The tobacco makes its presence upon inhale and is dominant, probably due to the 24 mg. Not a harsh tobacco, but not mild either and their is no chemical taste. They did not list the PG VG mixture but I would assume its at least 70 or 80% PG as the vapor production is sub par.

So there you go, my first attempt at a review. LOL.

PS, I ordered the sampler pack plus 15mls of CountRY4 from MOV this morning. Looking forward to trying them.
 
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