The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)

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passerbyeus

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Ok the bottles I ordered on Monday are still not even shipped :blink:, I just checked for the tracking and nothing but it does On or before Tue. Jun. 18 on the order so if I dont get out this weekend like planned it should be no later then Tues.




update.... great news bottles did com in today
 
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Randy C

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I picked up some Totally Wicked RY4... I tried some of their tobacco Americano a few months back and it thought it was pretty good, and I've read some rave reviews on their RY4, so I decided to give it a try. This is some pretty good stuff! I mixed 10ml's of 18mg with 10mg's of 36mg to achieve my standard 24mg. This provides an excellent TH, probably the best I've EVER experienced from an RY4 (high in PG), clouds of thick vapor, and it doesn't lack flavor in the least! I'm getting a strong, but smooth tobacco on both the inhale/exhale, with sweet caramel notes on top. It is a little weak in the vanilla department, but it's not missing by much. I would consider this a "must try". I'm not overly thrilled with the price, but hey... there are more expensive RY4's.
 

billherbst

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I picked up some Totally Wicked RY4... I tried some of their Tobacco Americano a few months back and it thought it was pretty good, and I've read some rave reviews on their RY4, so I decided to give it a try. This is some pretty good stuff! I mixed 10ml's of 18mg with 10mg's of 36mg to achieve my standard 24mg. This provides an excellent TH, probably the best I've EVER experienced from an RY4 (high in PG), clouds of thick vapor, and it doesn't lack flavor in the least! I'm getting a strong, but smooth tobacco on both the inhale/exhale, with sweet caramel notes on top. It is a little weak in the vanilla department, but it's not missing by much. I would consider this a "must try". I'm not overly thrilled with the price, but hey... there are more expensive RY4's.

Randy,

Just to be clear, we're talking about Totally Wicked's Patriot Range RY4, right? Totally Wicked has two juice lines: Titan and Patriot, each of which offers an RY4. Titan is all Chinese liquids manufactured by JoyeTech, whereas Patriot Range is made-in-USA juices by an unnamed source. I've not tried the Titan JoyeTech RY4, but I assume that it's probably similar to the very good JoyeTech RY4 I've reviewed and graded as a B+.

Passerbyeus' glowing recommendation was the motivation for my buying and reviewing TW Patriot Range RY4 back in December 2012. I'm glad I did, because your positive post today makes at least three of us who feel that Patriot Range RY4 is superb. Vaping some again this morning after reading your post, I'm reminded why I rank it so highly---in the A group. It's Custom, but not far from being Classic, and less sweet than I remember---not that it was dessert sweet before, just very well-balanced. I'm also getting a subtle but delightful sour flavor today that I hadn't noticed earlier. As a result, I added it to Sweet & Sour Category Group. Maybe steeping has changed it some, diminishing the sweetness and bringing out the sour element, or perhaps my palate is simply more sensitive to sourness after my DIY RY4 experiments. Either way, I like it.

I agree that Patriot Range RY4 is a bit pricey---not outrageous, but 20 bucks plus shipping for a 30ml bottle does lean toward the high end---so having gotten mine on a yo-yo sale makes me smile.

Damn! I wish I could make a DIY RY4 like this, but alas, I guess one has to be a Certified Juice Alchemist to achieve that.
 

Randy C

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Randy,

Just to be clear, we're talking about Totally Wicked's Patriot Range RY4, right?

Hi Bill, Yes, I was sharing my thoughts of the Patriot Range RY4. Good call on the sour taste.... It's kind of strange.... The sweetness was a little more pronounced when I received it, but after a two week steep, I do indeed get more of a balanced flavor, with just a hint of sour coming through to counteract the sweetness. I am going to order some more and this time I'll let it steep for a good 3-4 weeks. Ohhhh. just a though; I'm calling this to be a 70 pg/ 30 vg juice because of TH...I just can't believe the TH this juice offers!
 
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billherbst

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As anyone who reads this thread already knows, most American-made RY4s are Custom. China is the home of Classic RY4s, although not all Chinese-made RY4s are perfect examples of the genre. The house-brand RY4s sold by both Greenhouse1 and HealthCabin deviate a little from the Classic flavor profile---not enough to be called Custom, but sufficiently that they don't rank among the best Classic RY4s. Hell, Bauway RY4 is from China, and the two bottles I purchased were among the worst juices I've ever vaped. I think it's safe to say, however, that if an RY4 is made in China, it's most likely designed and intended to be a Classic RY4. At least the Chinese aren't yet copying any American Custom RY4s that I know of.

So, with notable exceptions, the Chinese are generally the masters of Classic RY4s. They all share the Classic signature: The juices are pale gold transparencies in color, their tobacco is neutral in flavor, and all the flavorings are balanced and blended into a single, unified overall taste. No one flavor stands out.

American juice-makers created the Custom genre. In Custom RY4s, the liquid's colors may be all over the map, from nearly transparent to extremely dark. One component flavor might take center stage and stand out, but even when the flavors are balanced in the mix, the overall flavor profile emphasizes the individual ingredients, each of which tends to be tasted distinctly.

This afternoon, I did something I've been meaning to do for a long time. I went through all the American-made RY4s among the 100 total RY4s that sit on my desk, sampling each one (well, not every single one, but any that might be in question, which was about 60 of them) to determine whether each American-made RY4 was Classic or Custom.

I ended up with three groups: True-Classic, Close-to-Classic, and Classic-Custom (meaning midway between the two sets of criteria, containing elements of both genres). I intend to alter at least one of the three pages of The Big RY4 List for future updates---I'll probably do use The RY4 Report Card---to include one of three designations---Classic, Custom, or Classic-Custom---after each RY4. Maybe that'll get done by next month's update, or maybe not.

Below are the three groups from today's sampling/judging. As always, these are my opinion only, and subject to change. YMMV.

True-Classic
Apollo RY4
CrystalELiquid RY4
eSmoke4Life Riskee Yuice
MrVape RY4
Nhaler R Why Not
RWVapors RY4
Vapor..... Our-Y4

Close-to-Classic
AlienVisions Raf-a-licious
ElixirLiquid RY4
Halo Tribeca
HitLiquid RY4 (not sure it’s USA-made)
LiquidXpress Taboo
TotallyWicked Patriot Range RY4
VaporTalk Dulcis

Classic-Custom
BlueMist RY4.5
DeeJStuff RY4
GoodEJuice RY4
ECBlend RY4 (only with no extra flavoring)
Indigo Classic
MisterELiquid MrE’s RY4
MyVapeJuice RY4
SpringVapor Black Label RY4
SpringVapor Black Label RY4 Day and Night
Sweet Vapes RY4
TopShelfVapes RY4
VapeBig RY4
Vaporescence RY4​
 

Sero

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Nice list Bill, that will be a big help for people looking for Ry4s that fall into their prefered flavor profile. I agree with the classifications of the ones on there I have tried so far.

This week I have some BestEcig RY4 from China coming to me. I tried this juice a back in 2009, and I remember liking it a lot. I finished the 10ml sample I got and I can remember I got the the sensation I get with my favorite RY4s where I can almost feel the caramel in my mouth as I vape it. I was really into 555 at that time so I didn't get anymore of it.

Nowadays I'm pretty much RY4 only, so I'm revisiting it to see where it stands now that I have vaped many types of RY4s. I always thought it may have just been Dekang RY4 from them, but it is not. I emailed them before my recent order and Beci from BestEcig told me they manufacturer their own liquid and that their formula has not changed since they started making it a few years ago. I will post my impressions.
 

billherbst

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Back on October 15, 2012, I reviewed FlavourArt RY4, FA's all-in-one, ready-made RY4 flavoring concentrate for DIY. Here's a link to that review, in post #2989.

Back then, I didn't think much of it. In fact, I gave it a grade of C-. In The Big RY4 Report Card section for DIY RY4 flavorings, FlavourArt gets a straight C, because with RY4 flavorings, I keep it simple and give only whole grades (no + or - half-grades). In my original review, I was pretty hard on this flavoring concentrate, and---since the DIY juice I'd made to test it hadn't steeped at all---I admitted that I might have to come back later to re-assess and possibly append my review. I'm doing that now, eight months later. Why now? Well, let's just say that I have my reasons. (At some point in the future, I may reveal what those reasons were, but---right now, for the good of everyone concerned---they need to remain private.)

For those of us who make DIY juices---whether creating juices from scratch by combining individual flavorings or by using an all-in-one ready-made flavoring---two serious problems stand out: ingredient mix ratios and steeping.

Mix percentage is critical. Flavoring amounts are expressed as percentages of overall liquid volume, and no “standard” percentage of flavoring applies across the board. Regular flavorings require the highest percentages; flavoring concentrates require much less; and flavoring super-concentrates take only a tiny amount. Not only do different flavor manufacturers vary widely in concentration of flavorings, but even within a given company's line of flavorings, recommended percentages can vary widely---from 2% up to 30%. Use too little flavoring, and you get weak juice. Use too much, and you get muddy juice that tastes awful. Using either too much or too little flavoring results in lousy juice.

In addition, individual vapers like different flavor intensities. A juice that is "subtle and sublime" for one vaper might be "weak and tasteless" to another. Conversely, a juice that one vaper loves as "potent and flavorful" may be "dreadfully over-flavored" to another vaper.

FlavourArt's RY4 is a flavoring concentrate. Recommended amounts are from 2-8%. You can use more than that, of course, but doing so will definitely mess with the flavor, and probably not in good ways.

Steeping is hugely important. Juice-making in vaping is similar to making soup in cooking. "Soup" is not merely ingredients cooked in a broth, or added to a broth after cooking. No. Part of making great soup involves giving the ingredients time during cooking to meld together. That's why people sometimes ask, "Is it soup yet?" The same process (although usually without heat) applies to making eliquids. Flavorings need time to settle in, interact, and cooperate. Some retail juices are sold already steeped; others are made-to-order and require considerable steeping to mature. Obviously, DIY juices are made fresh. Most DIY juices need at least a couple days to steep, and some benefit from longer steeping times, up to a month, and in rare occasions, much longer.

The 30ml bottle of FlavourArt RY4 (8% mix) I made following the original review has now had eight months to steep. That's more than long enough, LOL. I hadn't sampled it since October, and when I did vape it again today, I discovered that the so-so fresh juice had transformed and is now much, much better.

The upshot is that I’m moving up FlavourArt RY4 in the flavoring rankings. Way up. The other highly-ranked RY4 all-in-one flavorings (Want2Vape RY4, TFA RY4 Double, and FlavourArtUK Nutzilla) are all Custom RY4s. If you’re looking for a Classic RY4 flavor profile in a ready-made RY4 flavoring concentrate, however, FlavourArt RY4 is the one to get.
 

josho

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Bill -

Have you had the opportunity to sample Velvet Cloud Vapor's White Beard Tobacco?

It's very RY4ish in form to me, though they don't describe it as such.. they offer a couple of custom variants upon request, one that is caramel focused and one that is vanilla focused. It'd be interesting to see your take on it.
 

billherbst

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Bill -

Have you had the opportunity to sample Velvet Cloud Vapor's White Beard Tobacco? It's very RY4ish in form to me, though they don't describe it as such.. they offer a couple of custom variants upon request, one that is caramel focused and one that is vanilla focused. It'd be interesting to see your take on it.

Yes, I have a 15ml bottle of VCV White Beard Tobacco (along with 15ml bottles of Burley Beard Tobacco and Vanilla Tobacco). I don't personally find White Beard to be similar to an RY4, although I understand how you might. To me, White Beard is one of those juices that has a very odd mix of flavors but ends up being surprisingly tasty.

VelvetCloudVapors is relatively unique among natural tobacco juice makers/vendors. A considerable number of vendors use commercial Tobacco Absolute in their tobacco blend juices, but VCV is different in that they make their own in-house proprietary TA, which requires sophisticated equipment and is neither easy nor simple. Also, VCV uses Burley tobacco for their in-house TA, rather than the Bulgarian used to make commercial TA.

I don't feel that VCV ranks as high as Ahlusion (which is, to me, the Gold Standard of NETs), but VCV definitely deserves praise for their juices, both tobacco and non-tobacco flavors. Also, I love the arty graphic sensibilities of their web site and labels.
 

passerbyeus

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I feal like a kid setting in my room waiting to see what my punishment is for
RY4 Ana from Bill hahahaha



Yes, I have a 15ml bottle of VCV White Beard Tobacco (along with 15ml bottles of Burley Beard Tobacco and Vanilla Tobacco). I don't personally find White Beard to be similar to an RY4, although I understand how you might. To me, White Beard is one of those juices that has a very odd mix of flavors but ends up being surprisingly tasty.

VelvetCloudVapors is relatively unique among natural tobacco juice makers/vendors. A considerable number of vendors use commercial Tobacco Absolute in their tobacco blend juices, but VCV is different in that they make their own in-house proprietary TA, which requires sophisticated equipment and is neither easy nor simple. Also, VCV uses Burley tobacco for their in-house TA, rather than the Bulgarian used to make commercial TA.

I don't feel that VCV ranks as high as Ahlusion (which is, to me, the Gold Standard of NETs), but VCV definitely deserves praise for their juices, both tobacco and non-tobacco flavors. Also, I love the arty graphic sensibilities of their web site and labels.
 

billherbst

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I feal like a kid setting in my room waiting to see what my punishment is for
RY4 Ana from Bill hahahaha

What punishment? This isn't the Spanish Inquisition, just some of us fooling around and sharing the results of our playtime.

Got Ana yesterday. Drip-tested it this morning. It's sweet and tasty. Classic neutral tobacco in a Custom recipe mix with caramel/vanilla (meaning that the component flavors are more distinct than unified, and a bit more vanilla-rich to my palate than evenly balanced). But what's not to like about that? Congratulations! You made a nice juice that qualifies as an RY4. That said, does Janty have any reason to worry because of our amateur efforts? Nah, not for a second. Even if we did make an RY4 that put theirs to shame, they wouldn't lose a single minute of sleep.

Passer, you're the fourth thread participant from whom I've sampled DIY RY4s. There was the guy from Venezuela who sent me three different RY4s by a friend of his. Those were very strange. Then the hangdude sent me his Hazelnut RY4, which was a wonderful Custom RY4 for hazelnut lovers. Of course, there are my own 30-or-so DIY RY4 attempts (only two of which have been tasted by anyone but me, thank heaven). And now your Ana. Shoot, you're in good company.

By the way, I think I may have discovered one of the keys to making a decent Classic RY4 from scratch. Revisiting FlavourArt's all-in-one pre-mixed RY4 flavoring concentrate (which is technically called "Legend RY4," I think) produced a revelation. FA RY4 can be really good, but only when mixed with a very light hand, keeping the amounts of flavoring concentrate in the mix to an extremely low percentage. Aha! Turns out that---as is so often the case---less is more.

That made me curious about the other RY4 flavorings that aim at a Classic flavor profile: Hangsen Essence RY4, TFA RY4 Asian, and HealthCabin house-brand RY4 Essence. (All the rest of the pre-mix RY4 flavorings I have are clearly Custom flavor profiles---want2vape RY4, TFA RY4 Double, etc.) I already had bottles of DIY RY4 made from each of the three flavorings above, but they were all mixed at 10-20%, which was way too much.

I made fresh bottles (small ones, 6ml) of each, starting out with percentages that were crazy low---like 2%---then adding more a little at a time until the Classic RY4 flavor began to bloom. Well, dog my cats. At 3-5%, they all passed muster easily as darned good Classic RY4s. FA RY4 was still the winner, but all four of them could hold up their heads against any of the most highly-rated Classic RY4 retail juices.

Armed with the "Less is More" revelation, I renewed my quest for making a decent Classic RY4 from scratch. I made two versions last night. Neither is a winner---I need to find a good neutral synthetic tobacco flavoring from my huge stash and mate that with the right caramel and vanilla or bavarian cream that will harmonize best (I have 23 different caramels and 31 different vanillas)---but both new experiments were headed in the right direction. I hesitate to speak too soon, but I think I may be onto something here. Classic RY4 is a lightly-flavored recipe. Custom RY4s can be intensely flavored and even in-your-face, but Classics have to be subtle. That might even be why some vapers don't like Classic RY4s, because they expect to get bowled over by flavor, and Classic RY4s don't do that. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

I'll keep working on this and report in if and when I have any successes worth sharing.

In the meantime, you can relax, Passer. You did good.
 
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Cool_Breeze

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...By the way, I think I may have discovered one of the keys to making a decent Classic RY4 from scratch. Revisiting FlavourArt's all-in-one pre-mixed RY4 flavoring concentrate (which is technically called "Legend RY4," I think) produced a revelation. FA RY4 can be really good, but only when mixed with a very light hand, keeping the amounts of flavoring concentrate in the mix to an extremely low percentage. Aha! Turns out that---as is so often the case---less is more.
...

I have begun to think that some of my FlavourArt tobacco experiments may have suffered from the same malady...overdone. I've now passed those flavors on and am left with uncertain retrospect. I may give Legend RY4 a try one of these days.
 

billherbst

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I have begun to think that some of my FlavourArt tobacco experiments may have suffered from the same malady...overdone. I've now passed those flavors on and am left with uncertain retrospect. I may give Legend RY4 a try one of these days.

Cool,

Not that everyone suffers from this malady, but I'm convinced that the bane of many DIYers is using too much flavoring.

The false seduction of "If a little flavoring is good, then more is better" is darned hard to resist. I'm learning, though. I've just been a bit slow to catch on and come to the realization.

Any of the four RY4 flavorings I mentioned in my post can make a very acceptable diy Classic RY4: FA Legend RY4, Hangsen Essence RY4, TFA RY4 Asian, and HealthCabin Essence RY4, in that order (at least to my palate).

All four are improved by the addition of a little sourness, using either TFA Sour (which is pure malic acid diluted to 20%) or Lorann Tart & Sour (which is a blend of diluted malic acid and citric acid). Malic acid is getting bad-rapped these days due to some research that suggests it's harmful to the lungs (which is why I'm sticking with Lorann for now), but I'm not seriously worried, given the tiny amounts needed to get the sweet-sour contrast in RY4s (literally about one drop per 5ml of juice, and that one drop is diluted anyway). Some of the really sour candy juices might be a concern, however.
 

Sero

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Got my Bestecig RY4 in from China today. I'm very impressed. It tastes as amazing as it did when I tried it in 2009. I thought that it may have just been re branded DeKang juice all this time, and since my current bottle of Dekang tastes horrible, I thought they changed the formula and did not order more. The current Dekang formula tastes like a sweet Chinese cigarette to me, no discernible caramel taste. For those who have never tasted a real Chinese cigarette, it has a very unique flavor which is why in all those Dekang RY4 threads, people have different ways of describing it. I find it very off-putting myself. I emailed Bestcig and they said they manufactured their own liquid and that their formula had not changed, so I ordered more.

The BestEcig RY4 starts off with a sweet note then goes into a very smooth vanilla-y tobacco that balances out the initial sweetness. It all blends together into a finish and aftertaste that I can only describe in one way: It tastes like I have eaten one of those chewy caramel candy cubes. Sweet, rich, and satisfying. The tobacco in this does not have that overwhelming "chinese cigarette," "pine tree" flavor I mentioned was in the DeKang.

It's a very authentic flavor that fools me into thinking I have just finished a piece of that caramel candy. I even smack my tongue against the roof of my mouth reflexively. This RY4 could definitely be described by some as being sweet and "caramel-rich,"(which I prefer) but even though the caramel is dominate in this, it still has those other critical RY4 flavors to wrap everything together.

This is one of the flavors that got me off analogs and into vaping years ago. Overall, it is one of my top RY4s and a potential alternate to Tribeca and MrVape RY4 for me. This is definitely one of the RY4s I have been searching for and it was under my nose this whole time. I'm glad I decided to re-visit it and I highly recommend it to other RY4 lovers for its great taste and price. It may change how you think of Chinese RY4s. 9/10
 

Cool_Breeze

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Cool,...

...All four are improved by the addition of a little sourness, using either TFA Sour (which is pure malic acid diluted to 20%) or Lorann Tart & Sour (which is a blend of diluted malic acid and citric acid). Malic acid is getting bad-rapped these days due to some research that suggests it's harmful to the lungs (which is why I'm sticking with Lorann for now), but I'm not seriously worried, given the tiny amounts needed to get the sweet-sour contrast in RY4s (literally about one drop per 5ml of juice, and that one drop is diluted anyway). Some of the really sour candy juices might be a concern, however.

Do you have experience with FlavourArt Bitter Wizard? Then again, I suppose bitter is not the same as sour.
 
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