The Rose v2 Rebuildable Atomizer

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Tamer El-Meehy

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Thanks petemoss.
I'll give that a try for sure, I like 26g as it stays in place nicely but i'll try it with 28.

How far do you guys raise the coil above the air tube 1-2mm?

Actually this is one of the tricky things with the Rose. Raise it too high and you get a throat hit that is too powerful and a muted flavor IMO. Too low and you risk having liquid liquid leaking through the tube. There is a recommendation that Worked great for me: have the top of the coil barely above the top of the cup..just barely


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TrollDragon

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Actually this is one of the tricky things with the Rose. Raise it too high and you get a throat hit that is too powerful and a muted flavor IMO. Too low and you risk having liquid liquid leaking through the tube. There is a recommendation that Worked great for me: have the top of the coil barely above the top of the cup..just barely


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Thanks Tamer.
Many excellent suggestions in this thread, I'll give that one a try as well.
 

roxynoodle

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I like my Roses with 28g and a 2mm coil whether its vertical or horizontal. Hmm, not sure how I got italics...darn tablet!

I sit the coil right on the airtube on my verticals. Your top lead must go into the positive post and bottom lead into the negative so it won't short.
 

ignotus

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Ok so I'm going to pick up more kanathal for my rose as I'm running out of my 30g what Guage wire should I get for a proper build with my mvp2.0 it only goes up to 11 w

Have you considered an upgrade? I feel the Rose needs at least 15 watts to reveal its full potential.
 
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petemoss

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Thanks petemoss.
I'll give that a try for sure, I like 26g as it stays in place nicely but i'll try it with 28.

How far do you guys raise the coil above the air tube 1-2mm?

28g is more of a personal preference. The main thing is a smaller diameter coil so you can have more wick surrounding the coil to act as a reservoir.
When I use thicker wires, it take longer for the coil to heat up and cool down.
 

ignotus

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So I've been vaping the Rose for about 8 months. Before switching I used the KFL+, and since then I've experimented with the Kayfun v4 and Taifun GT II. I thought I'd write some short comparisons between these three, and demonstrate why I think the Rose beats them all.
Rose vs. KFL+
It's difficult to say anything really negative about a classic atomizer such as the KFL+. Like the Rose, it has exceptional flavor and is simple in design. Aesthetically, I think the Rose looks better; the KFL+ always reminds me of the Kremlin for some reason. More importantly, the Rose has advanced features the KFL+ does not, such as juice control and the ability to tinker with the build without dumping and rinsing the tank (which was extremely annoying when I was new to rebuilding). They both have air control, though I'm pretty sure everyone just left the KFL+ fully open. Finally, to its credit the KFL+ does allow one to use a different mouthpiece.
Most important, however, is the coil and feeding system. The Kayfun design is easier to setup, but I think it was and continues to be disadvantageous for having the coil situated above the reservoir of juice, which has to travel vertically up the wick to reach it. The results, in my experience, are two: first, any given build cannot support as high a wattage in the Kayfun as it can in the Rose wherein the wick extends horizontally from coil to juice, and second, because the wick is never really as saturated as it could be, it has to be changed more often. I would run a 28 gauge build in the KFL+ at between 14-16 watts and need to rewick every two tanks, and from what I've seen on this forum, that was not uncommon. I run a hotter build in the Rose and can go an entire week or more without needing to rewick (at which point I usually just rebuild). This is a huge advantage to me, who would rather spend an hour or so once a week setting up a durable build than 20 minutes every other day maintaining it.
Lastly, the flavor of both atomizers is, as I said, exceptional. In fact, I think they are the same in quality, but the Rose provides greater quantity. This is due to the fact that it can better support a build with lower gauge wire thanks to the true bottom coil design mentioned above along with a proportionately increased airflow.
End.
 

ignotus

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Rose vs. Kayfun v4
In the first comparison, I mentioned that both the Rose and KFL+ were simple, and simplicity is a virtue. The Kayfun v4 is complicated, and that is a fault. Especially so since the v4's complexity is not, I contend, the product of ingenuity but rather of a desperate attempt to impose innovative features (namely juice control, top-filling, and a glass tank) onto an antiquated design they were never meant for. I don't remember the precise number, but the v4 is made up of some 40 parts, and it is a labor to disassemble. In fact, I had to make a trip to the hardware store in order to do so completely (I'll never trust the manufacturer to give an RTA a proper cleaning). And the results of all that are less than impressive: the air control isn't immediately accessible (I adjust mine often), I saw no reason the juice control couldn't just be left fully open all the time (so all of those parts are really just to allow for top-filling), the glass tank setup presents too many seams for comfort (mine would tend to perspire e-liquid when making adjustments), and the top-filling, meh (the Erlkonigin did it better). The Rose is beautiful in its simplicity, and all of its features are immediately and what's more, easily manipulated.
With all of that being said, the v4 still suffers from the same limitations as the KFL+ I described before. It can support a lower gauge wire since it does feed better than its predecessor and has greater airflow and a larger deck, yet it still can't match the Rose with identical builds. My go-to build in the Rose is 8 wraps of 26 gauge Kanthal around a 3/32" bit, which I run mostly at 20 watts, but up to 22 as the build ages. I could only get 18 watts out of the same build in the v4, and still had to rewick after 3 or 4 tanks (slight improvement). As for the flavor, well that depends on many factors, such as the particular build and airflow setting, but it seemed a bit thin to me, though by no means terrible.
That's all I have to say about the Frankenstein of RTAs, except that to sell an atomizer so complex without any spare parts is neither responsible nor considerate.
End Part 2.
 

ignotus

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Rose vs. Taifun GT II
I had been interested in the Taifun, an old and venerable RTA, for a while, so when the second iteration came out I decided to get one. I liked 26 gauge in the Rose, but thought the Taifun would be a good candidate for a 24 gauge build since it has a similar coil and wick setup, but in a larger chamber with increased airflow. When it arrived, I began to break it down and noticed something I really did not like: the base is press-fit together and cannot be disassembled. Like I said before, I don't want to vape an RTA until I have cleaned it to my own personal satisfaction, so this was disappointing. In addition, I know from experience that e-liquid tends to work its way down into the base of any atomizer and pool up in the various cavities or cake up on the positive post assembly, so why the user should be prevented from opening up the base is difficult to understand. This makes me appreciate the Rose, which is supplied with tools both to disassemble the base and also to reassemble it in such a way (tightly) that it won't come apart when refilling or rebuilding.
Nevertheless, I cleaned it as best I could and set it up with a 24 gauge build using a KGD wick. It must be said that the Taifun is the easiest RTA I've ever built; building the Rose can be difficult since you have to work on it from above, but the Taifun allows total access from the side, which I appreciated. However, one notices that the juice flow is controlled by means of the cap that screws onto the chamber ring, so it's not accessible from the outside. This wasn't a big deal for me since I don't really adjust my juice control much, but for others it might be. The airflow is controlled via a ring on the bottom of the atomizer similar to that of the Rose, except that it isn't trapped in place but can be slid right off the base...more on that later. The tank is glass, and I think it is implemented much better on the Taifun than on the Kayfun v4: it's a long cylinder that slides into an outer steel shell rather than a stumpy cylinder squished between two steel rings.
Anyway, I ran the specified build at around 25 watts with the airflow about half open. It was a good vape: the flavor was just underneath the Rose in quality but the vapor production was quite a bit greater. I don't care much for blowing large clouds since I don't have anyone to compete with, but it made me feel cool when buying juice at the vape shop. So, in terms of performance, I was pleased.
I was less pleased with some other design aspects, however, in addition to the press-fit base. Like I said, the airflow ring isn't really locked in place as it is on the Rose, but weakly held in place by a mere o-ring. As a result, several times when I went to unscrew the base from the tank I ended up pulling it off instead. Next, it isn't really a true bottom-coil design in which the juice-level can never drop below the wick: there's a significant gap between the wick and the bottom of the tank, which leads to my last and greatest irritation. If you look at the base of the Rose, you'll notice that it has two o-rings: the one right below the build deck is the bottom of the tank, the second one is only there to block any juice that should ooze past the first one. On the Taifun there is only one, large o-ring at the very bottom with which juice is in constant and full contact. As a result, every time I screwed the base back onto the tank, a significant amount of liquid would get squeezed out from around that o-ring onto the exterior, which I would then have to take time to wipe off. E-liquid would also tend to seep out of there when carrying the tank around with me to vape, such that I didn't ever want to put it in my pocket. As a result of these issues, and for the better flavor, I quickly decided to stay with the Rose.
End Part 3.
 

Tamer El-Meehy

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Thank you or this detailed review/comparison..very informative to say the least. Unfortunately I have only tried the KFL+ (I decided not to buy the KF4 right from the start due to the reasons you mentioned). As for the TGT 2, for some reason I didn't really feel like buying it possibly because I think the first TGT gives an OK vape compared to the KFL+ or even the KF 3.1 (I'm a flavor chaser and I'm not that interested in blowing large clouds or huge air flow).
 
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petemoss

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TrollDragon

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I like the Kayfun V4 as it is actually quite easy to use, take apart and put back together. Yes there are 41 parts with the glass tank in the exploded diagram but 13 of those parts are o-rings and 4 screws. The Kayfun 3.1 ES has 23 parts if you break it down the same way they do with the V4. There is not really any juice control like the Rose has, you either shut it off to top fill or open it up to use. I don't know anyone who would try and control the juice flow with it. I find the vape from the Kayfun V4 to be very good, it is extremely easy to build and wick. I use 10 wraps of 26g on a 2.4 mandrel to give 1.2Ω, that way I can use it on my 20W iStick as well.

If you are looking for ease of use, excellent flavor and vapor production, then neither the Rose or the Kayfun V4 can compete with the Flash E-Vapor V3 IMHO.

Right now in the Rose I have ignotus's build of 8 wraps of 26g on 2.4mm, split wicked with Japanese cotton and it is vaping quite well. :thumb:
 

roxynoodle

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IMO, the Rose kills them all in flavor :D

If I were to give one of my attys up right now, it would be the k 4. Its good, but I've never found it great. My kfl and first TGT have been gone a long time now. Never bothered to try the TGT2, and probably won't. At this moment, I have 25 tanks in use, with an Urba on the way. I've told myself no new tanks unless I give one up :). Hold me to it, folks.
 

Tamer El-Meehy

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Your welcome. So (looking at your signature) how does the Rose compare to the Squape Reloaded?
The Squape R is more versatile with 3 building decks to chose from, ease of building and adjusting your wick, large tank capacity, and better airflow adjustment ring. Wicking and coil placement can be tricky though. I also tried the Erlkonigin by the way..All in all, like Roxy said, the Rose beats them all when it comes to flavor.
 

Tamer El-Meehy

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IMO, the Rose kills them all in flavor :D

If I were to give one of my attys up right now, it would be the k 4. Its good, but I've never found it great. My kfl and first TGT have been gone a long time now. Never bothered to try the TGT2, and probably won't. At this moment, I have 25 tanks in use, with an Urba on the way. I've told myself no new tanks unless I give one up :). Hold me to it, folks.

I am seriously considering trying the Ubertoot, and the Aqua V. 2
 
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