The use of water in your DIY juice...
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Vaporize Me-- Lot of misconceptions thrown around--the use of distilled water in you mixture will not hurt your atomizer at all or accumilate--just be sure to use the right proportions as you do not what to thin an e-liquid mixture. To thin a mix may in fact flood the atomizer--but all you have to do is blow it out to rectify this-------------Sun
Thanks Sun for clarifying that. This was the first time that I have read that water could be detrimental to your atty.
Having one die today, I just want to rule out the different variables that could have contributed to its death.
Having one die today, I just want to rule out the different variables that could have contributed to its death.
I use 36mg juice unflavored VG. I cut it to 18mg. To do this I mix 50/50 juice to Wilton's glycerin (found at Michael's craft store - used in cake icing). To make a dropper bottle of flavored juice, I put in 4ml of my 18mg juice and add .5ml distilled water and .5ml of flavor. If I have a flavor that is weaker to begin with, I add 1ml of flavor and no water. When I start to cut lower than 18, I will use a glycerine and distilled water mix. I don't want to make my juice too thick, however the glycerine gives great vapor.
I use a little water in my homebrew juices sometimes, just to thin out the glycerine a bit if it's too gloopy. I use tap water, but we do live in a very soft water area, so limescale isn't an issue here. If you have hard water, then I think distilled water would be gentler on the atomizer, but NEVER use mineral water - it may seem appealing, but it's hard (that's the "mineral" bit!)
A temperature of 90°C will evaporate all "Alcohol", "Glycerol" and "Propylene glycol", it will not remove water.
On the tests that I carried out I discovered that any water added to my mixes only resulted in reduced vapor and a general degradation in performance.
Using a newly charged battery 4.2volts and a manual switch ( I used the screwdriver) - water retention was not a problem with 5% or less water.
With an auto switch and carts - (not dripping) I found the water accumulated in the atomizer and around the cart, this effect increases as the battery voltage drops.
The result is that vapor production drops off-
1) you check your cart - it is not empty!
2) you try to top it off - it only takes a couple of drops!
3) you try a new recharged battery.
It works but not as well as before.
Slowly but surely the atomizer performance decreases.
You then go through the atomizer cleaning and re-priming process...
( water is the enemy it serves no useful purpose, and you don't need it. )
You then end up overheating your atomizer - trying to get a decent hit....
Of course this is only my opinion, and I am certainly not an expert its just my experience, try it out and see what you think.
On the tests that I carried out I discovered that any water added to my mixes only resulted in reduced vapor and a general degradation in performance.
Using a newly charged battery 4.2volts and a manual switch ( I used the screwdriver) - water retention was not a problem with 5% or less water.
With an auto switch and carts - (not dripping) I found the water accumulated in the atomizer and around the cart, this effect increases as the battery voltage drops.
The result is that vapor production drops off-
1) you check your cart - it is not empty!
2) you try to top it off - it only takes a couple of drops!
3) you try a new recharged battery.
It works but not as well as before.
Slowly but surely the atomizer performance decreases.
You then go through the atomizer cleaning and re-priming process...
( water is the enemy it serves no useful purpose, and you don't need it. )
You then end up overheating your atomizer - trying to get a decent hit....
Of course this is only my opinion, and I am certainly not an expert its just my experience, try it out and see what you think.
Boiling point information:
Water: 100 degrees C
Propylene Glycol: 188.2 degrees C
Glycerol: 290 degrees C
I still haven't received my first e-cig (in the mail), but two things make me think that the coil should get more than hot enough to vaporize the water easily. One, of the main components above, it has the lowest boiling point. Two, having seen all these in person, and spilled them, water dries up a lot faster than the other two when left out in the open (or smeared across a lab top while trying to clean it up). However, a too thin liquid leaking out and flooding things does make sense.
Water: 100 degrees C
Propylene Glycol: 188.2 degrees C
Glycerol: 290 degrees C
I still haven't received my first e-cig (in the mail), but two things make me think that the coil should get more than hot enough to vaporize the water easily. One, of the main components above, it has the lowest boiling point. Two, having seen all these in person, and spilled them, water dries up a lot faster than the other two when left out in the open (or smeared across a lab top while trying to clean it up). However, a too thin liquid leaking out and flooding things does make sense.
Just for giggles, I asked my wife what she thought, since she was a chemistry major in college and has been teaching chemistry for several years at a private school. While not being too knowledgeable on how the atomizer works specifically, she said it would make sense that the water could affect performance if the balance of the mix was off. She's assuming that the atomizer is designed to vaporize PG/VG as a primary ingredient. But, in small enough quantities, she thinks it wouldn't be a problem, as some have stated that has been their experience.
Of course, this is all simply speculation, but I am actually beginning my first foray into mixing my own e-liquid strengths and flavors this weekend, so I'm already up for a little experimentation. Any results I get, though, won't be very thorough, as I only have an M401 right now. I'll try some things out, see if the wife will apply that scientific method she's always bragging about, and report what I see.
Ivisi
Of course, this is all simply speculation, but I am actually beginning my first foray into mixing my own e-liquid strengths and flavors this weekend, so I'm already up for a little experimentation. Any results I get, though, won't be very thorough, as I only have an M401 right now. I'll try some things out, see if the wife will apply that scientific method she's always bragging about, and report what I see.
Ivisi
Just go easy on the water, use as necessary to thin VG to a less-than-molasses consistency. Not gonna hurt anything permanently if you add too much.
Keep in mind that flavorings are mostly water or alcohol, so factor that in when mixing.
Jaaxx
Keep in mind that flavorings are mostly water or alcohol, so factor that in when mixing.
Jaaxx
NOTE: The coil can get up to 745C, as per the specs. (Failure after 800C, 1073K, 1472F.)
Heat-color chart. (I see cherry red when it is dry.)
http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/wtc/analysis/fires/metcolor.htm
With a wet wick, it should have a hard time getting over 200C. The water/evaporating fluids, carry away heat in the negative pressure chamber. (You create negative pressure as you suck on the vaporizer.)
PG and VG are only in the solution to create visual effect of smoke. (Fog machine fluid.)
Being that the melting point of poly-fill is 260C, and that is less than Glycerol (VG) 290C, you would gain from using water and glycerol. You have less chance of melting your cartridge wick. The water would steam-off first, and take some glycerol with it. This would reduce the viscosity too, allowing it to flow like Propylene Glycol (PG) 188C.
PG and water might be better for your health, if PG causes irritation, and VG causes undesired digestive issues. The water will be the carrier for the PG, but the viscosity may be too thin, and require a thicker wick to reduce flow.
In any event, mineral water is bad, and will cause undesired deposits that may short-out the coil. Distilled water should be better, but most distilled water is mineral enriched, to put back what was taken out!?!?!
You will have less "Visual Vapor", but you will actually have more vapor. You just don't see the water vapor, as it condensates faster in your mouth, and evaporates faster in the air. (It is there, just not large enough to diffuse the light, as a thick PG or VG cloud is able to do.)
That being said... it will also condensate more in your vaporizer air-chamber. This could lead to undesired dripping or liquid ejection when drawing on the device. If you have this issue, try less water.
Most bottled water is just tap-water from another location. Some say distilled and enriched, some say reverse osmosis and enriched, some say distilled and reverse osmosis. It is the "mineral enriched" water that you want to avoid. (As well as any mineral water, vitamin water, health water, etc... which have an ingredient list on the bottle.)
I imagine a nice neutral mix would be...
1/5 water (To restore the undesired high viscosity which VG creates)
2/5 VG (To reduce PG irritation)
2/5 PG (Original mixtures)
The water also helping to aid the removal of the other fluids, before the temperature is high enough to melt the poly-fil wick in the cartridge. (Using the 1/5 portion for any added flavoring too. Resulting in less water used.)
Heat-color chart. (I see cherry red when it is dry.)
http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/wtc/analysis/fires/metcolor.htm
With a wet wick, it should have a hard time getting over 200C. The water/evaporating fluids, carry away heat in the negative pressure chamber. (You create negative pressure as you suck on the vaporizer.)
PG and VG are only in the solution to create visual effect of smoke. (Fog machine fluid.)
Being that the melting point of poly-fill is 260C, and that is less than Glycerol (VG) 290C, you would gain from using water and glycerol. You have less chance of melting your cartridge wick. The water would steam-off first, and take some glycerol with it. This would reduce the viscosity too, allowing it to flow like Propylene Glycol (PG) 188C.
PG and water might be better for your health, if PG causes irritation, and VG causes undesired digestive issues. The water will be the carrier for the PG, but the viscosity may be too thin, and require a thicker wick to reduce flow.
In any event, mineral water is bad, and will cause undesired deposits that may short-out the coil. Distilled water should be better, but most distilled water is mineral enriched, to put back what was taken out!?!?!
You will have less "Visual Vapor", but you will actually have more vapor. You just don't see the water vapor, as it condensates faster in your mouth, and evaporates faster in the air. (It is there, just not large enough to diffuse the light, as a thick PG or VG cloud is able to do.)
That being said... it will also condensate more in your vaporizer air-chamber. This could lead to undesired dripping or liquid ejection when drawing on the device. If you have this issue, try less water.
Most bottled water is just tap-water from another location. Some say distilled and enriched, some say reverse osmosis and enriched, some say distilled and reverse osmosis. It is the "mineral enriched" water that you want to avoid. (As well as any mineral water, vitamin water, health water, etc... which have an ingredient list on the bottle.)
I imagine a nice neutral mix would be...
1/5 water (To restore the undesired high viscosity which VG creates)
2/5 VG (To reduce PG irritation)
2/5 PG (Original mixtures)
The water also helping to aid the removal of the other fluids, before the temperature is high enough to melt the poly-fil wick in the cartridge. (Using the 1/5 portion for any added flavoring too. Resulting in less water used.)
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Maybe she could find the heat of vaporization for PG and VG, I haven't had any luck. With those we could do a theoretical calculation of the energy required to vaporize a given amount of liquid, should give us some idea of matching heat required and heat output of the atomizer to liquid composition....Sorry, sometimes my inner geek becomes my exploding all over the place outer geek...
Then again: it's easier and more fun to just play with it. When you get fancy, it's called research.
Hi, I'm new to this and have been experimenting with cutting as well. I use flavored 36 mg and cut it with a base mixture of 80% pg / 20% vg. When my base mixture is ready I use this to cut a 36mg down to 1mg pre ml. It reduces the taste but I can tolerate it.
My question is, what gives off that waxy taste. It actually leaves a waxy coating in my mouth. Does this mean it's leaving that same coating in my air passages as well? I bought the PG and VG from an e-cig supplier specifically for cutting. So I'm assuming this is the right stuff.
Another thing that concerns me, what is the burning point of VG? I read somewhere (can't find the post anymore) that VG becomes a toxic element when it reaches a certain temp. Is this true? I was thinking of getting a SD or GG, but now I don't know if this might get too hot for a mix with VG?
I know that this is 100 time better than analogs and I'm not going to stop ecig and revert back. A bit of an education will certainly help. Just so I keep myself grounded and not kid myself to believe this is absolutely harmless and throw caution to the wind (some thing like that)...
My question is, what gives off that waxy taste. It actually leaves a waxy coating in my mouth. Does this mean it's leaving that same coating in my air passages as well? I bought the PG and VG from an e-cig supplier specifically for cutting. So I'm assuming this is the right stuff.
Another thing that concerns me, what is the burning point of VG? I read somewhere (can't find the post anymore) that VG becomes a toxic element when it reaches a certain temp. Is this true? I was thinking of getting a SD or GG, but now I don't know if this might get too hot for a mix with VG?
I know that this is 100 time better than analogs and I'm not going to stop ecig and revert back. A bit of an education will certainly help. Just so I keep myself grounded and not kid myself to believe this is absolutely harmless and throw caution to the wind (some thing like that)...
There is no doubt in my mind that vaping is not 100% safe for us... however having said that smoking a pack and a half a day was worse, and in my opinion it was WAY worse... I for one am willing to take any health risk that vaping may bring along with it... I know you said you knew it wasnt nearly as bad as smoking analogs... I just wanted to put my two cents in as well.
I am just starting to cut my own... so I wish we had a bit more on recipes... I have found some... and I know that trying is half the fun... but a base to go on would be really great.
and yes I have seen some break downs... 50/50 of e-liquid to VG (I like the VG way better than the PG... but tastes vary) and such... I just think it would be cool to see some of the other peoples recipes.
does anyone know what mix they use to get like the Camel flavor ... or the any of the tabacco flavors???
I am just starting to cut my own... so I wish we had a bit more on recipes... I have found some... and I know that trying is half the fun... but a base to go on would be really great.
and yes I have seen some break downs... 50/50 of e-liquid to VG (I like the VG way better than the PG... but tastes vary) and such... I just think it would be cool to see some of the other peoples recipes.
does anyone know what mix they use to get like the Camel flavor ... or the any of the tabacco flavors???
Sorry to go a little OT but is there anything that can be used instead of PG and VG so that there is NO visual effect of smoke.
I would like to have no visual Smoke at all so no one would even know i was vaping nicotine and assume i was using some sort of Asthma inhaler.
Hey dee! Seems when someone was asking about using water instead of PG/VG, it would cause steam instead of vapor (never tried it myself though).
But I see freddo asking about this: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...d-like-smokeless-liquid-stealth-vaping-2.html
Might be something to look into.
Lu
But I see freddo asking about this: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...d-like-smokeless-liquid-stealth-vaping-2.html
Might be something to look into.
Lu
Thanks for that link Lu. That's the sort of thing i was looking for.
PS. Of course i still care
I have had a problem with the vg and pg having kind of a distinct taste and smell and a little harsh on my throat.
So I mixed some distilled water ....about 10% to the vg. THEN ON INTUITION ADDED ABOUT 10% SWEET AND LOW LIQUID SWEETENER AND FLAVOING.
THIS JUICE IS GREAT....VAPES GREAT AND i HAVE NO VG OR PG TASTE OR SMELL...AND HAVEN'T HAD A PROBLEM WITH MY ATOMISER.
LOVE IT....FINALLY I HAVE A GREAT JUICE
So I mixed some distilled water ....about 10% to the vg. THEN ON INTUITION ADDED ABOUT 10% SWEET AND LOW LIQUID SWEETENER AND FLAVOING.
THIS JUICE IS GREAT....VAPES GREAT AND i HAVE NO VG OR PG TASTE OR SMELL...AND HAVEN'T HAD A PROBLEM WITH MY ATOMISER.
LOVE IT....FINALLY I HAVE A GREAT JUICE
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