"they say that e cigs are as bad a regular cigs"?

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ad356

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 25, 2010
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north java, ny
i was talking with a guy at work and mentioned that i ordered an e cig. he said that "they say that they are no good either". i told him that i believe that they are just trying to protect their big tobacco tax dollars. i really truely believe that anyone that believes government sourced "research" needs to think about it. the government historically has only been out for its own interests. one example is industrial grade hemp. during world war II the government actaully promoted farmers to grow it, after the war suddenly ......... was evil and no form of growing was allowed. the goverment changes their stance when every they feel fit. i dont believe a damn word they say, we need an unbaised study.

anyone who believes propaganda nees to have their brain examined.
i dont believe "they". "they" are criminals

i will also add that this guy is a cigarette smoker.
 
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jj2

Moved On
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May 30, 2009
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I've run into some that have said that. I just tell them that it isn't so and give them a few reasons why I believe that they are less harmful. Then I say, don't take my word and give them this web address, and tell them to go see for themselves. Once logic triumphs government bullcrap and they are smoke free, they'll thank themselves for taking the time to find out the truth.
 

uba egar320

Vaping Master
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Dec 9, 2009
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I had a guy at a party try to make an ... out of me for no reason.He asked what is that your puffing on.I told him and he wanted to know what was in it.I gave him the card that came with the e cig(npro) and he went on and on about antifreeze and other chems that are going to kill me quicker than smoking real cigs.After a minute or so I got a little tired of it and told him not to worry about it.Seeing how this guy smoked til he had a heart attack in his mid 30's I didn't really feel like taking his advice.If ecigs are bad for me,they can't be any worse than the real thing.4000 chems compared to 5 or 6.
 

Hubby

Full Member
Jul 9, 2010
12
0
Norway
I had a guy at a party try to make an ... out of me for no reason.

Well, he had a reason, just not a very good one :)

About health effects, I read everywhere that there's no sufficient research done on the health effects of ecigs, however i did find that the liquid is the same as used in fog machines that have been used for theatrical purposes, fire drills and whatnot for several decades.

The health effects of these fog machines have been studied. I don't have the post count yet to post a link here, but you can find it in wikipedia with links to the studies in questions.
 

four2109

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May 9, 2009
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The anti-freeze argument seems to come from the smokers that really don't want to face quitting cigs. I know that before I heard of ecigs, the thought of quitting was frightening to me. I knew they owned me and that quitting was a 60/60/24/7/52 battle that I probably wouldn't win. It has to be on their own time when they are ready.
Since my enthusiasm has faded it doesn't bother me because I am doing it for me. I don't feel I need to promote ecigs or save smokers anymore. If their interest is not genuine, I don't bother.

As for the theater/dance fog. There is controversy there too. I always hated the glycerine fog on dance floors. Lungs were made for oxygen. We just pick our poison.
 
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Vocalek

CASAA Activist
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
I had a guy at a party try to make an ... out of me for no reason.He asked what is that your puffing on.I told him and he wanted to know what was in it.I gave him the card that came with the e cig(npro) and he went on and on about antifreeze and other chems that are going to kill me quicker than smoking real cigs.After a minute or so I got a little tired of it and told him not to worry about it.Seeing how this guy smoked til he had a heart attack in his mid 30's I didn't really feel like taking his advice.If ecigs are bad for me,they can't be any worse than the real thing.4000 chems compared to 5 or 6.

The "antifreeze" chemical, diethylene glycol (DEG), was found in one Smoking Everywhere cartridge. The quantity was 1%. It would take vaping thousands of cartridges in a single day to reach the Minimal Risk Level (dose required to make you sick). Meanwhile, if there was nicotine in them-thar cartridges, you never would have made it that far.

The MRL for DEG is 0.8 ml. per kilogram of body weight.
The MRL for nicotine is only 0.01 ml. per kilogram of body weight.

Here's a comparison, using 66 kg (around 150 pounds) as the body weight and 2.4% (usually labeled 24 mg) as the nicotine strength.

First we calculate how many ml. of liquid are required to get up to one entire ml. of the potentially toxic substance by dividing the percentage of that substance into 1. Then we multiply by the # ml required per kg for MRL, and finally multiply by the weight in KG.

DEG
1 / .01 = 100 * 0.8 = 80 * 66 = 5280 ml.
Nicotine
1 / .024 = 41.66 * 0.01 = 0.4166 * 66 = 27.49 ml.

If your cartridge holds an entire ml. of liquid, the above results show how many carts you'd need to go through to hit those MRLs. Double the quantities if your cartridges only hold 1/2 ml (as do most of the Smoking Everywhere brand and the NJOY NPRO cartridges).

No other lab has ever reported finding DEG in the liquid or the vapor. So the FDA results have not been replicated in that regard.

Now, about the so-called carcinogens. The FDA failed to report how much of the "carcinogens" (Tobacco-specific Nitrosamines or TSNAs for short) it found in the NJOY cartridges.

We know from Health New Zealand's testing that a 16 mg. (nicotine content) Ruyan cartridge contains 8 nanograms/gram of TSNAs. The lab that tested the NJOY cartriges in response to the FDA test reports came up with pretty much the same amount in the "high" cartridge--around 8 ng.

To put that into perspective, you need to know that a Nicoderm patch also contains 8 ng. of TSNAs, and one piece of 4 mg. Nicorette gum contains 2 ng. So if the FDA isn't putting a cancer warning on the patch or the gum, we can be pretty sure that the quantity of TSNAs in those products is well below the amount required to generate cancer.

If you know you are going to run into him again, before you go out the door, print this lab report and hand it to him when you see him.

http://www.casaa.org/files/Study_TSNAs_in_NJOY_Vapor.pdf

Here's another kicker. We don't drink the juice. We vaporize it. The lab that tested the NJOY vapor found that only one of the TSNAs makes it into the vapor and that this particular TSNA doesn't actually cause cancer!

Research has shown that the TSNAs in the nicotine gum do make it into the user's body. Don't know about the patch.

Oh, and those Marlboros your buddy still smokes? 11,180 ng. of TSNAs.

His smokes deliver a boatload of chemicals that are not found in vapor. These include tar, carbon monoxide, heavy metals, particles of ash and around 4,000 new compounds that are created when the tobacco is burned. Most of these are toxins and many are carcinogens. This difference in ingredients probably explains why 90% of e-cigarette users are experiencing improvements in their health.

Is your friend's health getting any better from the smoke he inhales?
 

Vocalek

CASAA Activist
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Thanks to the FDA's disinformation, there is a lot of angst about "what's in the vapor"?

CASAA is supporting a new study of the effects of e-cigarette vapor on indoor air quality (IVAQS). The study is being conducted by a respectable, reliable and dependable consulting firm that specializes in indoor air quality/environmental tobacco smoke.

CASAA.org

Anything you can afford to contribute will help. We need to raise $75,000 as fast as possible to fight the disinformation being used to justify including vapor in the indoor smoking bans.
 

CtryBoy

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 24, 2010
433
6
Texas
Stopped by my local tobacco shop to see what they might stock and the lady about lost it. Said she tried ecigs and they gave her pneumonia and she was now only going to carry tobacco products.

Seeing her mind was made up, I politely perused her wares and left never to return. Honestly this is going to be an uphill battle against ignorance and pig headed self interests. Keep up the good fight, but you dont have to win every battle.
 

misterD

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 27, 2009
2,632
653
worster - crappychusetts
Thanks to the FDA's disinformation, there is a lot of angst about "what's in the vapor"?

CASAA is supporting a new study of the effects of e-cigarette vapor on indoor air quality (IVAQS). The study is being conducted by a respectable, reliable and dependable consulting firm that specializes in indoor air quality/environmental tobacco smoke.

CASAA.org

Anything you can afford to contribute will help. We need to raise $75,000 as fast as possible to fight the disinformation being used to justify including vapor in the indoor smoking bans.
no paypal?:(
 

Dizzy-Jim

Full Member
Jul 29, 2010
44
2
71
North Georgia
The "antifreeze" chemical, diethylene glycol (DEG), was found in one Smoking Everywhere cartridge. The quantity was 1%. It would take vaping thousands of cartridges in a single day to reach the Minimal Risk Level (dose required to make you sick). Meanwhile, if there was nicotine in them-thar cartridges, you never would have made it that far.

The MRL for DEG is 0.8 ml. per kilogram of body weight.
The MRL for nicotine is only 0.01 ml. per kilogram of body weight.

Here's a comparison, using 66 kg (around 150 pounds) as the body weight and 2.4% (usually labeled 24 mg) as the nicotine strength.

First we calculate how many ml. of liquid are required to get up to one entire ml. of the potentially toxic substance by dividing the percentage of that substance into 1. Then we multiply by the # ml required per kg for MRL, and finally multiply by the weight in KG.

DEG
1 / .01 = 100 * 0.8 = 80 * 66 = 5280 ml.
Nicotine
1 / .024 = 41.66 * 0.01 = 0.4166 * 66 = 27.49 ml.

If your cartridge holds an entire ml. of liquid, the above results show how many carts you'd need to go through to hit those MRLs. Double the quantities if your cartridges only hold 1/2 ml (as do most of the Smoking Everywhere brand and the NJOY NPRO cartridges).

No other lab has ever reported finding DEG in the liquid or the vapor. So the FDA results have not been replicated in that regard.

Now, about the so-called carcinogens. The FDA failed to report how much of the "carcinogens" (Tobacco-specific Nitrosamines or TSNAs for short) it found in the NJOY cartridges.

We know from Health New Zealand's testing that a 16 mg. (nicotine content) Ruyan cartridge contains 8 nanograms/gram of TSNAs. The lab that tested the NJOY cartriges in response to the FDA test reports came up with pretty much the same amount in the "high" cartridge--around 8 ng.

To put that into perspective, you need to know that a Nicoderm patch also contains 8 ng. of TSNAs, and one piece of 4 mg. Nicorette gum contains 2 ng. So if the FDA isn't putting a cancer warning on the patch or the gum, we can be pretty sure that the quantity of TSNAs in those products is well below the amount required to generate cancer.

If you know you are going to run into him again, before you go out the door, print this lab report and hand it to him when you see him.

http://www.casaa.org/files/Study_TSNAs_in_NJOY_Vapor.pdf

Here's another kicker. We don't drink the juice. We vaporize it. The lab that tested the NJOY vapor found that only one of the TSNAs makes it into the vapor and that this particular TSNA doesn't actually cause cancer!

Research has shown that the TSNAs in the nicotine gum do make it into the user's body. Don't know about the patch.

Oh, and those Marlboros your buddy still smokes? 11,180 ng. of TSNAs.

His smokes deliver a boatload of chemicals that are not found in vapor. These include tar, carbon monoxide, heavy metals, particles of ash and around 4,000 new compounds that are created when the tobacco is burned. Most of these are toxins and many are carcinogens. This difference in ingredients probably explains why 90% of e-cigarette users are experiencing improvements in their health.

Is your friend's health getting any better from the smoke he inhales?


WoW, Thanks for that nice post ,, some one knows how to do " REAL " research!
 

jj2

Moved On
ECF Veteran
May 30, 2009
196,879
212,801
Hundred Acre Wood
no paypal?:(

PayPal turned it's back on the e-cig. Closed accounts and, the last I heard, the funds in several accounts were made unavailable.
Basically, if CASAA used PayPal, PayPal could use it's policy to abscond with the money---or at least tie it up for a very long period of time.

If you use PayPal for any of your e-cig needs, don't let them know!!!


--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
Consider me your recycling center for Njoy Pro, Smoking Everywhere Gold, Cloud 9, Smoke 51 Trio, and DSE103 dead batteries.
Other hardware if it’s still usable.
Those I loan out to/give to thank you.
Support CASAA
CASAA | The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-Free Alternatives Association
Don’t forget to donate to IVAQS research
CASAA.org
 

Zelphie

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 29, 2010
1,483
554
S.E. Michigan
Stopped by my local tobacco shop to see what they might stock and the lady about lost it. Said she tried ecigs and they gave her pneumonia and she was now only going to carry tobacco products.

Seeing her mind was made up, I politely perused her wares and left never to return. Honestly this is going to be an uphill battle against ignorance and pig headed self interests. Keep up the good fight, but you dont have to win every battle.

Thats too bad, I would like to see juice more available locally for when I run out or dont have enough money to buy my internet favs. Funny shes ok selling tobacco though. Good thing (in this case) that money means more than personal beliefs, if its selling that is.
 
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