This is happening at my work

[div]

Effective January 1, 2013.....they say due to rising costs in heathcare, yada yada...there is now going to be a monthly nicotine surcharge of $30.00. Now it's automatically going to be added, so you have to go online and answer yes or no. But the yes or no supposedly says...smoker/tobacco user or non-smoker/no tobacco user. I have to sign in at work and see if that is really says just that. It doesn't mention anything else about nicotine use. I got the heads up from another worker and I asked the benefit people, and they said if you use nicotine then there is the charge.
Now I have no problem saying I'm a non smoker, really I don't. I don't smoke, vaping 2 years. If that question to answer is literal smoke or non smoke then my conscience is clear for me what I answer. I just have between now and January 1st to maybe give up some flavors I enjoy (American Spirit) and it includes now and then WTA. Doesn't say anything about testing, but I do want to be honest here. Go to zero nic, which was my intention when I started but stress got to me and I'm back up to 18-24mg.
Of course I am really po'd at this, smoker or not. Because where will it end? Smokers are easy targets...they aren't putting a surcharge (no offense to anyone) for obesity, high cholesterol, diabetes type 2, etc. What about unprotected sex (happily married), do I sign a waiver for that too? ok, that part being sarcastic, but makes you think doesn't it?
I can get on a crusade, as my daughter would say, and really got into this, but at this time how much of a crusade? They could make changes for the worse between now and Jan 1st, really worse, I know them it would not be better. I know of 2 others at work that vape (not in my department though) and of course the smokers are talking about switching (yeah) and back to asking me questions..I'm okay with that too.
Ok I vented, but would appreciate anyone to chime in with your thoughts.

 

[Buggs5347]

Wow, that is just unreal!! Are there are large number of people where you work that smoke?
In my workplace, I just cannot imagine it to be that much of an impact on overall costs. There is probably a dozen out of around 700 employees that smoke/vape.

And, another thought - since it's healthcare insurance costs are they asking about family members who are covered under the plan? An employee may not smoke but their covered family members sure could be smokers.

I read that quite a few companies are taking to these measures. Cost shifting. But, I still maintain it is terribly flawed.

You want to be sure to be honest in answering. It could be cause for dismissal and/or denial of coverage.

 

[RsK0807]

My company does the same thing. I claim myself as a NON smoker/tobacco user.

 

[zuzette]

I think you need to know more about the fine point of the policy. Your insurance carrier could be asking for the surcharge based on nicotine and not smoking - the yes no smoker question is simply one that is poorly worded. However, me, I live dangerously. I would probably answer the online question honestly (non-smoker for you) and just keep vaping. Unless the company makes the fine print available to you or the insurance company does, you can only answer based on available information.

and for ranting -

I understand too. Smoking IS bad and DOES lead to all kinds of heath issues. but many things do and its not fair to call out a single life style. It rather reminds me of going into a hair salon and being charged a higher price for my hair cut even though my hair (at the time) was simply a man's hair cut on a female head. Grrr.....

 

[Lbox88]

Well that sucks. At my work we are supposed to have yearly physicals and blood tests, and if everything is good it is supposed to lower our rates. I know one of the questions on it is tobacco user or not, so I wondered the same thing.

 

[BacsiBob]

Regarding the folks that thought up this "encouragement", the more people I meet, the more I like my dogs.

 

[div]

There are quite a few smokers at my building, you see the butts outside (yuck...even when I smoked I threw them away). I don't think there is a fine print of this policy, but will see today because I'll be looking for it. This policy covers all employees, not just at my building, so it is a very large number.
I thought so too, it is poorly written, rather keep it that way at this time. lol

 

[bacc.vap]

I'm no expert on the subject, but I remember reading that when insurance companies test people to see if they smoke, they don't actually test for nicotine itself, they test for some byproduct of nicotine. No matter how you get nic they will assume it's from smoking if they do a test. It's screwed up.

Edit: I guess I should of said they don't test for smoking per say, they test for a byproduct of nic, and if your positive for it, your a smoker as far as they're concerned, no matter how you got the nic.

 

[zapped]

Tell them youre currently on the patch to quit smoking and see what they say...leave e-cigarettes out of the equation since i seriously doubt they have a test to differentiate between the two.I bet they change their tune

 

[div]

no they won't sorry to say, I asked about it when I heard about this first before getting the paperwork in the mail. I see no fine print policy on this. It was just a couple of pages what new changes are happening with our health benefits.

Tell them youre currently on the patch to quit smoking and see what they say...leave e-cigarettes out of the equation since i seriously doubt they have a test to differentiate between the two.I bet they change their tune

 

[drsocal]

Yeah that's crazy.

 

[El Diablo Marrón]

I work for Walmart and last year they jacked the price of their medical over double if you "smoked".
I asked my HR person if E-cigs counted as "smoking" and she said she wasn't sure, so i called the company that handles our medical and asked them.
The person said "Electronic cigarettes are the same as smoking"
I fought a little and asked why it did not state that in the paper, And she told me it does,and directed me to some small print deep in the paperwork that said "Smoking and/or cigars/smokeless tobacco/Electronic cigarettes, or other nicotine products".
So I asked her why is it that I quit smoking,but have to still pay a smokers rate, and she replied "Because you still smoke"

So I told her i was going to cancel my medical.

It's cheaper to hop down to the $30 clinic anyway.
In my state they have to take care of you even if you have no money or medical.

 

[BumbleBee]

We don't have this here yet. We have the smoker/non-smoker rates for life insurance, but not health care.

I wonder, if you were vaping a 0mg liquid, would it matter to them?

 

[chohan]

Effective January 1, 2013.....they say due to rising costs in heathcare, yada yada...there is now going to be a monthly nicotine surcharge of $30.00. Now it's automatically going to be added, so you have to go online and answer yes or no. But the yes or no supposedly says...smoker/tobacco user or non-smoker/no tobacco user. I have to sign in at work and see if that is really says just that. It doesn't mention anything else about nicotine use. I got the heads up from another worker and I asked the benefit people, and they said if you use nicotine then there is the charge.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the 'benefit people'. Did you talk to your Health Insurance company or your Human Resources department of your employer?

My company did the same thing 2 years ago. Last year my health insurance rates were jacked up 80% over a non-smoker. This year after I'd been vaping for about a month I called my insurance company directly and told them that I'd stopped smoking a month earlier. I never even mentioned vaping but then I told them I was chewing nic gum regularly and was curious if I could list myself as a non-smoker during open enrollment this November. I was told yes and she said if you read the smoking affidavit that you're required to sign, it actually specifies "Do you use tobacco products?", not do you use nicotine.

This was the exact opposite of what our company nurse and the HR rep told me.

My advice is call your insurance company and discuss it with them directly because if your HR dept is anything like my employer, they are stumbling around in the dark on most issues anyway.

cheers,
cho

 

[bacc.vap]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the 'benefit people'. Did you talk to your Health Insurance company or your Human Resources department of your employer?

My company did the same thing 2 years ago. Last year my health insurance rates were jacked up 80% over a non-smoker. This year after I'd been vaping for about a month I called my insurance company directly and told them that I'd stopped smoking a month earlier. I never even mentioned vaping but then I told them I was chewing nic gum regularly and was curious if I could list myself as a non-smoker during open enrollment this November. I was told yes and she said if you read the smoking affidavit that you're required to sign, it actually specifies "Do you use tobacco products?", not do you use nicotine.

This was the exact opposite of what our company nurse and the HR rep told me.

My advice is call your insurance company and discuss it with them directly because if your HR dept is anything like my employer, they are stumbling around in the dark on most issues anyway.

cheers,
cho

The problem is ecigs are now officially classified as tobacco products.

 

[zuzette]

sure e cigs are classified as tobacco product but a nic test would reveal nic just nic. from gum patch or. vape it is the same. you definitely need clarification. on the nicotine policy irrespective of smoking.

 

[chohan]

The problem is ecigs are now officially classified as tobacco products.

sure e cigs are classified as tobacco product but a nic test would reveal nic just nic. from gum patch or. vape it is the same. you definitely need clarification. on the nicotine policy irrespective of smoking.

Indeed, clarification is what I need so I've been digging. I called my Health Insurance company again and explained things, then asked for their official policy on whether ecigs or nic gum are considered tobacco products ( I didn't mention FDA). When she finally came back on the line I was told no. Is that your official stance? Yes. My provider is one of the largest in the nation and as I was voicing my displeasure with regards to them gouging smokers on the premiums I was amazed when she told it wasn't them that set the smoker rates, it was my company.

So then I called my HR dept and told them exactly what the insurance company had just said and then posed them the same question:
are ecigs and nic gum considered tobacco products in regards to the affidavit that we'll have to sign next month? zzzzz... He didn't know, tried to call the director, not in presently, great question though, I'll call you back and let you know.

Well yes sir, I'd say it's a very relevant and timely question since you have at least 10 employees who have stopped smoking in the last couple months by switching to ecigs, and that's just on one shift. So waiting for the return call... should be interesting.

I suppose this all depends on the individual company as far as their set policy. I really don't see the nic itself being a roadblock in regards to my own since they actually have a smoking cessation program where they'll pay 100% for the patches and nic gum.

But who knows, all I'm certain of is I'll save a boatload of cash next year if they call me back and say, "ecigs are good to go."
---------------------------



UPDATE: just got the call back from my employer, direct from the Director of Benefits, "Ecigs are good to go."

Ok, I'm paraphrasing but that was the jist of it, was told I can enroll as a non-smoker under the cheaper rates. I should celebrate and buy a zap or something.

 

[Mr.Gene]

its truly a sad day when something like this happens. Yes smokers are the first to get a bulls eye tattoed on their back. then they try to up the cost of this or that. doesn't really matter that the smoker is a minority. lets just pick on them. Where can they justify adding on the cost to the insurance. How many people will accually get the use of that so called benefit. I would have to agree just ell them your on the patch or the gum and leave it at that. Best of luck !!!

 

[spraintz]

personally I would (and do) stand firm and state clearly that you are a non-smoker since you are not burning, eating, sniffing, chewing, licking or otherwise ingesting tobacco in any way. Unless your health insurance provider very clearly specifies "nicotine in any form" then I don't think they could/would touch you.

Patch, gum, e-juice...etc are not "tobacco products", they are items that contain nicotine and are designed to deliver only nicotine.

You wouldn't consider Mountain Dew and RedBull "coffee bean products" right?

 

[zapped]

All of the following vegetables contain nicotine in varying amounts. Just putting this out there in case people need to use that in similar cases.

1. Tomato: As hard as it is to believe, tomatoes do contain some amounts of nicotine. It has a net weight of 7.1 to 7.3ng/g. What this translates to is about 7.1 ng of nicotine for each gram a tomato has. However, it is said that the nicotine content reduces when the tomato ripens and it contains a nicotine alkaloid known as tomatine.

2. Potato: This is a vegetable that contains a nicotine alkaloid known as solanine, mostly found in the peel. A potato has an average weight of 15ng/g but goes to about 42.8ng/g if the potato is green or still budding while the ripe ones contain as little as 4.3ng/g net weight. If you get pureed potatoes, then the amount shoots up to about 52ng/g. Such high nicotine content is said to have fatal implications on human health.

3. Eggplant: Also known as aubergines, these contain about 100ng/g of this harmful substance. This may be the highest nicotine reading next to tobacco products. This loosely translates to the fact that about 10 kilograms of eggplants could contain the nicotine content of a cigarette.

4. Teas: As much as tea is one of the healthiest beverages around, it also contains some amount of nicotine. Green and black tea, whether caffeinated or decaf, does contain some nicotine. Black tea, for example, has content of about 100ng/g of nicotine. Instant tea, as compared to natural brewed tea, may have a nicotine reading going up to 285ng/g.

5. Peppers and Capsicums: These food flavorings contain alkaloids known as solanine and solanadine, much like the other nightshade family variations. You will find that peppers contain solanine levels of about 7.7 to 9.2 mg per 100 grams of food serving.

6. Cauliflower: Although it is not part of the nightshade family, it does contain its own share of nicotine. Cauliflower has nicotine standing of about 16.8ng/g.