This is happening at my work

[redddog]

I think it's the historically bad success rates of Nicotene replacement therapies that make the insurance companies completely comfortable with Nicotene as a screen. Really, up until the E-cig, the patch, gum etc were almost guaranteed to fail. And if you are a company trying to estimate how much premium they're going to charge you to offset the estimated costs they'll be on the hook for (plus a ridiculously huge profit), they're betting that you'll be on the stankies every time.

E-cigs have changed tha equation, I think, but until those figures become more mainstream available, they're happy to take your money based on the Nic screen and the public villification of smokers.

 

[MattBott]

The company I work for, Target, started this last year. They charge $5 a week for a "tobacco Surcharge." When you are 6 months tobacco free, you have to call the "Target Well Being Hotline" and tell them. No box I can just tick online like everything else they do for the store.

 

[junkman]

Well, your screwed basically. If a serious health condition arises for you or anyone covered under your policy, you can bet that the insurance company is going to win if you don't pay the premium.

 

[junkman]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the 'benefit people'. Did you talk to your Health Insurance company or your Human Resources department of your employer?

My company did the same thing 2 years ago. Last year my health insurance rates were jacked up 80% over a non-smoker. This year after I'd been vaping for about a month I called my insurance company directly and told them that I'd stopped smoking a month earlier. I never even mentioned vaping but then I told them I was chewing nic gum regularly and was curious if I could list myself as a non-smoker during open enrollment this November. I was told yes and she said if you read the smoking affidavit that you're required to sign, it actually specifies "Do you use tobacco products?", not do you use nicotine.

This was the exact opposite of what our company nurse and the HR rep told me.

My advice is call your insurance company and discuss it with them directly because if your HR dept is anything like my employer, they are stumbling around in the dark on most issues anyway.

cheers,
cho

If they tell you that, you better get it in writing. Too easy for them to tell you that verbally, but when the SHTF you will likely be the one it blows back on.

 

[GIMike]

I'm not racist at all, but I can't help but think back to the times when people were. Us white folk used to think other races were unhealthier than us. That it was because of their race (not the fact that they didn't have any rights here, and lived in poor environments). If they had health insurance back then, would the "healthier" races have to pay less? It just ticks me off, cause that was completely unfair to those people then, and this just seems like another form of the same line of thinking. I know that smokers in general may have more health costs. But what about those who don't use nicotine in an unhealthy manner? You want to put a charge on something, put an alcohol tax out there. I'd almost bet that there are more costs associated with drinking and driving, domestic violence, and other issues than there is from smoking these days. It's already on the way out, we have less smokers now than we ever did. How much do you want to beat a dead horse? Ok, here's your soapbox back, thanks for letting me borrow it....

**edit** One more thing before I'm done. We can't all afford new hybrids. Maybe some of us don't have the credit for it. How long will it be before you have an "non-hybrid" fee of $500 a year for owning a pure gasoline car. Or when they jack up the price of gasoline to $15 a gallon not because we have to, but to keep people from driving non-electric or non-hybrid cars. "Second hand exhaust kills millions each year" I see it coming......

 

[junkman]

Indeed, clarification is what I need so I've been digging. I called my Health Insurance company again and explained things, then asked for their official policy on whether ecigs or nic gum are considered tobacco products ( I didn't mention FDA). When she finally came back on the line I was told no. Is that your official stance? Yes. My provider is one of the largest in the nation and as I was voicing my displeasure with regards to them gouging smokers on the premiums I was amazed when she told it wasn't them that set the smoker rates, it was my company.

So then I called my HR dept and told them exactly what the insurance company had just said and then posed them the same question:
are ecigs and nic gum considered tobacco products in regards to the affidavit that we'll have to sign next month? zzzzz... He didn't know, tried to call the director, not in presently, great question though, I'll call you back and let you know.

Well yes sir, I'd say it's a very relevant and timely question since you have at least 10 employees who have stopped smoking in the last couple months by switching to ecigs, and that's just on one shift. So waiting for the return call... should be interesting.

I suppose this all depends on the individual company as far as their set policy. I really don't see the nic itself being a roadblock in regards to my own since they actually have a smoking cessation program where they'll pay 100% for the patches and nic gum.

But who knows, all I'm certain of is I'll save a boatload of cash next year if they call me back and say, "ecigs are good to go."
---------------------------



UPDATE: just got the call back from my employer, direct from the Director of Benefits, "Ecigs are good to go."

Ok, I'm paraphrasing but that was the jist of it, was told I can enroll as a non-smoker under the cheaper rates. I should celebrate and buy a zap or something.

Get it in writing!!!!

 

[NancyR]

This is nothing new tho, insurance companies have been doing this for many years in some places. My sister and her husband use to drive truck, and they had to pay more for their insurance because of being smokers. They where tested so it didn't matter how you got the nic you where counted as a smoker so long as the test showed nic.

 

[RosaJ]

Well, something popped into my head... I can see a surcharge for even non-smokers because of second hand smoke. Wow, then everybody is going to have to pay the tobacco surcharge!

 

[MorpheusPA]

I tell you three times: Get It In Writing.

Doing that has saved my .... several times. Not doing so has been a problem on occasion. This is too important a point to ignore that.

 

[redddog]

Get it in writing!!!!

Yahoo! You just made $360! Go drop a huge juice order!

 

[chohan]

If they tell you that, you better get it in writing. Too easy for them to tell you that verbally, but when the SHTF you will likely be the one it blows back on.

I tell you three times: Get It In Writing.

Doing that has saved my .... several times. Not doing so has been a problem on occasion. This is too important a point to ignore that.

Very wise advice mates. I concur and intend to do just that.

 

[div]

Thank you for all the responses. Yes I will get it in writing. I'm meeting
with them couple of hours. Will recap later this evening. Phone typing sucks lol.

 

[cdunn96]

this is total bull ...., what is next, do you drink coffee? Caffeine or non caffeine?

 

[damthisisfun]

I had the same thing at work - 30 bucks as of 11/1/11 - but it specifically lists e cigs as an NRT - wow - thgt FDA had already won in court that these are not tobacco cessation devices and/or nicotine replacement therapy. But it says it cannot contain tobacco products - well - all nico comes from tobacco - so we all like WT?

 

[div]

Well it was easy, go thru questions, and she asked me if I smoked (no specifics) and I said no. The yes tobacco/no tobacco thing won't be online till later in the week, so I am told by again benefits people. This person was just to review medical coverage, dental and vision benefits for me and my family, our regular package. So why the uproar? Well I know it hasn't settled down yet and will see what they have in writing when I reaffirm my no stand. Can't help but feel something sneaky is going on....and so far keeping my mouth kinda shut, no need to give them a heads up since they worded the yes/no quite carelessly (maybe on purpose)....I appreciate all the responses, you gave me more info to look into and what to watch for and for that I thank you....as it unfolds will give you an update.

 

[zapped]

Next its going to be Body Mass Index. My little brother works at a Catholic hospital and he's wasnt allowed to have any nicotine in his system. Its harder to fight because of the whole separation of religion versus state thing.

He's been using an electronic that I turned him onto on and off for a year or two now and was livid about this change.He ended up going up the chain of command and eventually got approval for his device. I'll ask if he got it in writing.

He brought up some good points to his supervisor, mainly that theres NO WAY that someone who's morbidly obese doesnt pose more of a health risk than a person pursuing healthier nicotine alternatives and even had a note from his personal physician attesting to his better health as a result of e-cigarettes.

Keep fighting, especially when you know its in your best interest to do so.

 

[YoursTruli]

Being in the healthcare industry as far as I am aware healthcare companies/employers test for nicotine period. Employees who are not being tested sign the tobacco free forms under penalty of perjury (an audit of relevant medical records could result in back-billing and a recall of claims) so getting in writing that ecigs are excluded from both your employer and health insurance company will be your only defense down the road.

"Next its going to be Body Mass Index"

Some states such as Alabama (the first to do so 2008) and North Carolina (the second 2010) with other states/companies following suit have already begun to add a surcharge to health policies for individuals who are obese.

 

[whispers76]

I used to sell life and health benefits to businesses. It is normal practice for companies to have this sort of a surcharge. I have never seen the qualifying questions mention nicotine, they always say tobacco. They usually mention cigarettes, chewing tobacco, etc... This may have changed since I've been out of the business for a few years though.

 

[div]

I work in the heathcare industry for 20 years and I have never had to take a nicotine test or been asked. No signing of yes/no tobacco till now. I don't know if this new policy is paving the way for nicotine testing down the road. I'm watching for what happens next and seeing what they have in writing. Sure past records may say I smoked before, but when I went to ER last year, that will also state the doctor noted I QUIT tobacco, because I told him when he asked if I smoked.

Being in the healthcare industry as far as I am aware healthcare companies/employers test for nicotine period. Employees who are not being tested sign the tobacco free forms under penalty of perjury (an audit of relevant medical records could result in back-billing and a recall of claims) so getting in writing that ecigs are excluded from both your employer and health insurance company will be your only defense down the road.

"Next its going to be Body Mass Index"

Some states such as Alabama (the first to do so 2008) and North Carolina (the second 2010) with other states/companies following suit have already begun to add a surcharge to health policies for individuals who are obese.

I agree with the BMI...that is more of a health concern. And the ER visit was for my knee..just in case you're wondering.

 

[junkman]

I work in the heathcare industry for 20 years and I have never had to take a nicotine test or been asked. No signing of yes/no tobacco till now. I don't know if this new policy is paving the way for nicotine testing down the road. I'm watching for what happens next and seeing what they have in writing. Sure past records may say I smoked before, but when I went to ER last year, that will also state the doctor noted I QUIT tobacco, because I told him when he asked if I smoked.


I agree with the BMI...that is more of a health concern. And the ER visit was for my knee..just in case you're wondering.

My feeling is there will be no nicotine testing, UNLESS you get cancer. At that point they will likely test if you claimed non-smoker and paid lower rate. At that point it is in their economic interest to test you to try to deny coverage of expensive cancer treatments.