This is why we have to be thorough when mixing with high nic bases

[Giraut]

A fellow vaper told the following story that happened to him the other day:

He decided to make his own liquids. He purchased 52 mg VG base on the internet, regular glycerine at the chemist to dilute it to the concentration he wants, and flavorings.

Why 52 mg you ask? Because nic juice is illegal here, so he reckoned it'd be less risky to import one highly concentrated bottle than several with a lower concentration - only one small illegal parcel, instead of a big one, or several in a row, and only one chance to get busted. Not sure his risk reduction strategy is correct, but that's what he thought.

When he made his 6 mg juice, he used a big syringe to transfer a little nic base, and another, totally identical syringe to transfer a lot of plain jane VG.

See where this is going?

Long story short, he made 40 mg juice, and ended up with a really bad case of sea sickness and a headache.

The first lesson is: be safe and don't buy high concentration nic base. If you mess up, you won't hurt yourself.
The second lesson is: prohibition is stupid, because it makes people take risks to get what they want illegally.

 

[edyle]

high conc nic also needs time to mix especially if it is VG.

 

[Giraut]

high conc nic also needs time to mix especially if it is VG.

Yeah well, juices need steeping time anyway.

 

[twgbonehead]

A fellow vaper told the following story that happened to him the other day:

He decided to make his own liquids. He purchased 52 mg VG base on the internet, regular glycerine at the chemist to dilute it to the concentration he wants, and flavorings.

Why 52 mg you ask? Because nic juice is illegal here, so he reckoned it'd be less risky to import one highly concentrated bottle than several with a lower concentration - only one small illegal parcel, instead of a big one, or several in a row, and only one chance to get busted. Not sure his risk reduction strategy is correct, but that's what he thought.

When he made his 6 mg juice, he used a big syringe to transfer a little nic base, and another, totally identical syringe to transfer a lot of plain jane VG.

See where this is going?

Long story short, he made 40 mg juice, and ended up with a really bad case of sea sickness and a headache.

The first lesson is: be safe and don't buy high concentration nic base. If you mess up, you won't hurt yourself.
The second lesson is: prohibition is stupid, because it makes people take risks to get what they want illegally.

No, I have no idea where this is going.

I often vape 36 mg juice; that's what I started with. 40Mg juice should not be life-threatening.
Did your friend go on Belgian TV and claim "E-cigarettes almost killed me"?

I find your attitude offensive. Anyone who does DIY SHOULD know to try out a small sample at first. SHOULD know to let it steep and mix well. SHOULD understand proportions, and what he or she is mixing.


Hi-concentration nic base is NOT the problem. And you act as if the "incident" was something that everybody should stand up and take notice of. "really bad case of sea sickness and a headache" ?? Yeah, sounds like too much nicotine. Didn't kill him, didn't fry his brain, didn't cause him to jump off a ledge or get committed to a mental hospital. Didn't need a hypo of adrenaline straight to the heart to get her back on her feet and back home before her boyfriend killed John Travolta.

 

[AmandaD]

I've actually made higher nic than that for a friend who needed it.

As has been said, there's nothing wrong with using a higher nic base. People need to assume responsibility for their actions, however - and take extra care.

Not all juice needs steeping incidentally - but it does need to be well mixed!

 

[buffaloguy]

This is a case of a new mixer not paying attention to detail. Its ignorance and has absolutely nothing to to with the strength of nicotine purchased. Everyone here stresses knowledge, safety, and more knowledge acquired by experience.

Those without the knowledge should not be just buying nic, grabbing a calculator, and going at it while not paying attention to their own actions. We all make mistakes but smarter mixers develop checks and balances in their mixing processes.

Its stories like this that get overblown by media outlets. Frankly I think a mod should delete this thread permanently.

 

[Midniteoyl]

The lesson is - Dont use the same type of equipment (syringes) for different bases... Chemistry 101.

 

[dannyv45]

Moral of the story is know what your doing before you do it.

 

[Giraut]

I find your attitude offensive.

Then you are easily offended my friend

Look, the guy was shooting for 6 mg and ended up with 40 mg, and while he didn't die, his body didn't react well. People have different tolerant levels, and you are being disingenuous if you claim high nic concentration is not a problem. It may not be a problem for nic sponges such as you, but to him or to me, it would be.

All I'm saying is, if you want to be on the safe side, use lower nic base. That way, when you mess up out of ignorance, stupidity, carelessness... you mess up less. If you DON'T want to be on the safe side, or you can take the dose, or you're super-careful all the time and you're an expert and all that, there's nothing to prevent you from doing what you want too.

FWIW, he didn't blame anybody but himself for the incident.

 

[Ld3441]

I use the same syringes for all my mixing BUT when I draw anything into a syringe I put it right into the bottle I am mixing. I don't set it down so there is no mixing anything up. I always add things in the same order and nicotine is always last. There are always people that do dumb things no matter what the topic. Doesn't make buying in high mg a bad thing. The whole key is knowing what to do with it.

 

[dannyv45]

Its stories like this that get overblown by media outlets. Frankly I think a mod should delete this thread permanently.

huge +1 on that friend.

 

[patkin]

"you are being disingenuous if you claim high nic concentration is not a problem"

Really? Nic base strength was NOT the problem. The hand holding it was. Further, to say it was is possibly "disingenuous" but surely misleading.

 

[Wingsfan0310]

If you can't be careful while measuring and using Nic, then the answer is: You shouldn't be using it in the first place. I use 100mg/ml Nic and have never confused the amount I'm supposed to use with the amount of PG/VG I'm supposed to use. That's just plain careless. If your that careless, I suggest buying store bought, period.

Edit Like LD, I also always do things in the same order, with Nic being last. I'm a measure twice, cut once kind of guy. If I can't give my mixing my undivided attention, I wait to do it till I can.

 

[dannyv45]

Then you are easily offended my friend

Look, the guy was shooting for 6 mg and ended up with 40 mg, and while he didn't die, his body didn't react well. People have different tolerant levels, and you are being disingenuous if you claim high nic concentration is not a problem. It may not be a problem for nic sponges such as you, but to him or to me, it would be.

All I'm saying is, if you want to be on the safe side, use lower nic base. That way, when you mess up out of ignorance, stupidity, carelessness... you mess up less. If you DON'T want to be on the safe side, or you can take the dose, or you're super-careful all the time and you're an expert and all that, there's nothing to prevent you from doing what you want too.

FWIW, he didn't blame anybody but himself for the incident.

Your comments may be in the best intentions but your title "This is why high nic concentration bases are a bad idea" does nothing but start hystera. This is something the vaping community does not need with all this legislation going on all over the world. There are better more tactful ways to get your point across.

 

[3mg Meniere]

Long story short, he made 40 mg juice, and ended up with a really bad case of sea sickness and a headache.

As has been said, there's nothing wrong with using a higher nic base. People need to assume responsibility for their actions, however - and take extra care.

People have different tolerant levels, and you are being disingenuous if you claim high nic concentration is not a problem.

I use the same syringes for all my mixing BUT when I draw anything into a syringe I put it right into the bottle I am mixing.

The nic concentration that is necessary for one person can cause serious discomfort or even permanent damage to another. All people are not the same. I just resumed rinsing out my syringes immediately after use in vodka, with an intake and expel. And this story reinforces my decision. Do your math, folks, especially when working with higher concentrations-- I treat even my 48mg/ml with care, even though I do like the math.

In the case of mixing juice, one problem could be where the vodka went.

 

[drksideken]

I'm relatively new at mixing (six months or so). I started with 100 str. Nic pg. I ONLY ordered ANY of it after reading everything I could find on these forums and other sources about the process. I watched every you tube video I could find...(and found that half the people mixing there are not that safe about it either.) I lay out all of my supplies in a clean area that is well ventilated and I have a handy supply of paper towels right next to where I work which is covered in a plastic table cloth. Everything I'm planning on mixing with is on the right side. I put the bottle I'll be putting the stuff in right in the center and when I finally mix it (wearing latex gloves) I use one syringe for each ingredient and when I'm done with that I immediately put the bottle and syringe on the left half of the table...or as I call it...the Done side. All of this is done after checking and then rechecking my ejuice me up calculator and if it is a complex recipe (for me that is something with more than one flavor) I'll use a check off sheet. As far as I'm concerned I can't really be much safer than that in my home environment. Anyone who doesn't at least read up on the risks in order to take the precautions shouldn't be mixing at all.

I would love to see some others post some of their step by steps on their process of mixing on here. Would be interesting to see how some of the long time veterans do it. Would be educational as well because I know I'm not doing it perfect either.

 

[Giraut]

Its stories like this that get overblown by media outlets. Frankly I think a mod should delete this thread permanently.

While you're at it, also delete all the sub-ohm horror stories: exploding batteries, fires... The media will love those.

And the stories about massive cloud chasing too: juice that's heated too hard may cause cancer ya know. The media will run wild with these too.

Or you could just close ECF if you're so afraid to discuss issues that doesn't cast our hobby in a perfect light...

 

[Nat79]

Of course it could be said that if he had 100mg he would have been more careful. But honestly the only point this this makes is that prohibition leaves the unqualified with no choice (just look at bootleg bathtub Gin killing people). I think we should stop attacking the OP as I'm sure the friend wouldn't feel the need to mix if s/he could simply go down to a B&M and pick up a bottle.

 

[olderthandirt]

Well said Nat.

 

[zelda]

I'm a bit confused here. How did he end up with 40mg juice if he added a lot of vg? Even using one syringe of vg and mixing it well with the nic base should have lowered it to 26mg. And how could he tell it was 40mg? Did he test it?