Houston, we have a problem...BE nic titration results

[rkayw]

I tested another BE 100 mg VG, but this was one of those bottles that have no lot number. It came up 99.2 mg, so that one was spot on. Good. At least SOME of his nic is ok. It was purchase 11/8/11, so much more recent than the summer ones.

That's good news Kurt, and probable relief for that customer. Thanks for reporting that.

Good thing it came up spot on, being it had no lot number to track it down had it been bad.
The nic tested as being right, the QC on it however is still lacking...100mg nic sent out (by BE) to a customer with no traceable lot number. Unacceptable.

 

[Prettycat191]

my post blinked out the link for who gourmet vapor is recommending..

the email is in reference to 'cindy'. i went back and checked. all the past emails i have gotten was from both gourmet vapor and honneyville was from someone named 'cindy'.

now, this email i just got from gourmet vapor, said "thanks from the whole crew at gourmet vapor" hmmmm .. no specific person, just the "whole crew". interesting

Just an FYI, Cindy is out from surgery, that's likely why the email said that it was from the whole crew rather than from her. It was on the facebook page.

 

[kaykay]

so do we have alist of what vendors use box elder?

 

[tmcase]

That's good news Kurt, and probable relief for that customer. Thanks for reporting that.

Good thing it came up spot on, being it had no lot number to track it down had it been bad.
The nic tested as being right, the QC on it however is still lacking...100mg nic sent out (by BE) to a customer with no traceable lot number. Unacceptable.

That sample I believe was mine as Kurt PM'd me today with those numbers. And yes I am relieve but I had already done a test with the ebay test kit and came up within 10% of Kurt's results. My results were 89. The kit works. So I will be doing my own nic test on every new bottle of nic juice that I buy from now on. Thanks again Kurt.

 

[rkayw]

Can;t the guy be allowed to speak on this thread at least. Surely it is only fair to allow a defence.

No matter what one feels, I think he should have the right to speak.

Personally I'd go further; we asked for a recall and he did that. Late, yes; but it is in place now. Let's try to be constructive.

There's much evidence of faulty procedures, but not of greed or malice. I see this as an important point.

Let's try to go forward, for the good of the whole community; this is not the important battle. Nor should it even be a battle now; we don't shoot at people with white flags, do we; let's be fair.

Will it work out well in the end? Who knows; but I think that overall it is worth a try.

Sure, he can speak freely IMO. We can freely respond.

Just because there is a white flag doesn't mean WE are under a gag order, are we.
I feel that is fair.

He has to face the music with the ppl, and yes some ppl (maybe myself included) will not be so receptive and/or friendly.
That trust has to be earned back by Brad. It won't happen over night.
IMHO. YOMV.

ETA: there would not be this battle at all had BE stepped up immediately. Yes better late then never. But since it was later...there is still upset and anger that must be allowed to be expressed by the community. Kurts nic test results etc are helping to ease fear, anger, etc. It all works hand in hand IMO. Holding our feelings in won't help heal sore wounds. Someone will blow sooner or later. I am not always good at biting my tongue, and have a feeling a lot of others in the community aren't either. lol.

 

[kinabaloo]

That sample I believe was mine as Kurt PM'd me today with those numbers. And yes I am relieve but I had already done a test with the ebay test kit and came up within 10% of Kurt's results. My results were 89. The kit works. So I will be doing my own nic test on every new bottle of nic juice that I buy from now on. Thanks again Kurt.

I have noticed a trend with the test kit, and can't say for sure it is statistically significant, but the test kit seems to give readings slightly on the low side. Perhaps there is a reason for this, if it is indeed a fact. Worth keeping in mind ...

Just 2-3% ish. Perhaps the acid is slightly too strong or something like that. Kurt would be able to check on it. Nothing to worry about though - it is well within its limits; indeed, the test kit is one great positive to come out of this situation.

+++

I must sleep in a moment; but before i do i think it worth repeating something - the BE situation was a long-running catalog of errors, of that there is little doubt; but can anyone honestly see a motive of greed in it? Was it bad? You bet it was! But planned? I see nothing to suggest that.

What's that phrase about cutting off one's nose ...

 

[GoodDog]

Like Cozzicon said, all Brad would have to do is follow the rules here and he could post in this thread all he wants. He chose not to become a forum supplier even though many of his customers were a direct result of this forum. That's one reason I chose not to buy from any of his 3 companies. It just irritated me that he prospered from this forum but wouldn't pay the small fee to become a supplier here.

 

[rkayw]

I have noticed a trend with the test kit, and can't say for sure it is statistically significant, but the test kit seems to give readings slightly on the low side. Perhaps there is a reason for this, if it is indeed a fact. Worth keeping in mind ...

Just 2-3% ish. Perhaps the acid is slightly too strong or something like that. Kurt would be able to check on it. Nothing to worry about though - it is well within its limits; indeed, the test kit is one great positive to come out of this situation.

+++

I must sleep in a moment; but before i do i think it worth repeating something - the BE situation was a long-running catalog of errors, of that there is little doubt; but can anyone honestly see a motive of greed in it? Was it bad? You bet it was! But planned? I see nothing to suggest that.

What's that phrase about cutting off one's nose ...

Absolutely! There was greed. Planned? Absolutely!
Planned every time he ignored a customer's complaint. Planned every time he said it could never happen within his company. Planned every time he evaded direct questions.
Yes, I would say he cut off his own nose despite himself.
Sad really...to see such bad management of a potentially good company that even Kurt says had good tasting nic.

 

[kinabaloo]

Like Cozzicon said, all Brad would have to do is follow the rules here and he could post in this thread all he wants. He chose not to become a forum supplier even though many of his customers were a direct result of this forum. That's one reason I chose not to buy from any of his 3 companies. It just irritated me that he prospered from this forum but wouldn't pay the small fee to become a supplier here.

But is he even a supplier atm? The thing is that he should be able to reply with regard to the issue; we have all had our say. Just a limited chance to reply in this one thread is all i am asking - i think it only fair.

 

[kinabaloo]

Absolutely! There was greed. Planned? Absolutely!
Planned every time he ignored a customer's complaint. Planned every time he said it could never happen within his company. Planned every time he evaded direct questions.
Yes, I would say he cut off his own nose despite himself.
Sad really...to see such bad management of a potentially good company that even Kurt says had good tasting nic.

You might be right. Though I see still error of judgement, not greed. But I take your point; it has some validity.

But let's at least hear from the other side. Some will never forgive and I wouldn't question that. Personally I wuld give another chance, but don't expect many to feel the same; but I do think it right that BE has a chance to reply.

After all, there is no way that the forums could admit BE at the moment; the point is to allow access to respond to the current issue. I would be outraged if BE was siuddenly a forum accepted member! I might acceot it a few months on, but now that would be impossible. But let the guy speak !

I think all manner of mistakes were made; it almost couldn't be worse. But I really don't see grred as the motive; and that's why I feel, let's try to start over.

+++

This is the first such major incident. If you want to see it that way, let's be lenient this one time. If it happens again, no matter who, we can be tougher. In a strange way, a lot of good has come from this, and hopefully it almost could't happen again; for the test kit is out there now and a whole lot of people are wiser, and can be in the know; future problems will be picked up much sooner.

 

[ScottB]

I'm sure he's been reading/following this thread. And has already seen the venom and the deserved criticism. He's been hit in the purse, and is full in the knowledge of the community's outrage & concern. A "Towne Square" pelting would accomplish nothing constructive.

 

[rkayw]

No he is not a supplier here. Never has been under the dba of BE. GV yes, but not BE.

No one is stopping him from speaking here. He just has to follow the same rules every other supplier has to do.
Is it fair that our reputable suppliers be held to the ECF forum rules & standards, but not him. I think not.

Personally, I think he is here lurking. Maybe. Who knows.

 

[Kurt]

That sample I believe was mine as Kurt PM'd me today with those numbers. And yes I am relieve but I had already done a test with the ebay test kit and came up within 10% of Kurt's results. My results were 89. The kit works. So I will be doing my own nic test on every new bottle of nic juice that I buy from now on. Thanks again Kurt.

Yes, it was yours. We spent a lot of time trying to find the lot number, but it was not to be found. It only had a yes-its-nicotine CAS# 54-11-5.

 

[kinabaloo]

Bg danger of broken record syndrome now - i really gotta sllep, is almost dawn here. The BE mistakes were serious and potentially lethal; and those errors sustained over quite a long period. But still I say I don't see a bad motive. And that changes the possible charge (sleepy, sorrry). I don't see the point in pursuing BE now that they have done the right ting and seem open to improvements. Could hardly have been worse, yes; but what now ... sleep on it ...

 

[GoodDog]

I'm fairly sure Gourmet Vapor was never a supplier here? He had plenty of opportunity to join, like I said in my other post. He seems to have a pattern of denial, ignoring what he doesn't want to deal with.

 

[Katya]

I must sleep in a moment; but before i do i think it worth repeating something - the BE situation was a long-running catalog of errors, of that there is little doubt; but can anyone honestly see a motive of greed in it? Was it bad? You bet it was! But planned? I see nothing to suggest that.

Nah, not greed. He sold 27% nic for the price of 10% nic. That's not greed.

Carelessness, incompetence, hubris, frightening lack of imagination... maybe. But suggesting that he did anything that monumentally dangerous and self-destructive and stupid on purpose is just silly.

That said, I'd reather deal with a greedy but conscientious vendor than with a sloppy and generous one.

 

[GoodDog]

But don't forget the instances of him selling 48mg as 100mg. We don't know how many of those are out there and that could have been greed.

 

[rkayw]

@ Kin ~ You don't see bad motive. Many do. Many don't. Each are entitled to their own views and right to voice it. Just like you keep voicing no bad motive.
I'm not totally convinced they are doing the right thing as implied, proof of it is of yet to come thru in test results etc from them. Open to improvements, maybe. Again, remains to be seen.
I think with more spot on titrate test results, tensions will ease. Trust issues...ehh...IDK.
Sleep good Kin. Just now a little past midnight here. Nice tossing thoughts around with ya.

 

[Katya]

But don't forget the instances of him selling 48mg as 100mg. We don't know how many of those are out there and that could have been greed.

Honestly, if so, then you must assume that he knew what concentration eliquids he was selling and that he was doing some kind of testing. I seriously doubt that. Sloppiness is all I see.

But I don't know. Nobody does.

 

[kinabaloo]

If there is one last chance, srely Be is right on the edge of the plank and better do real good from now. I am with my fellow vapers at the ned of the day ...

Been a tough call. It;s their ball now. Thay better play it well ... It's not so clear cut; so ind the nd I will go with the majority sentiment (unusual fo rme, but i gave it a good shot)

I do feel unhappt that the free speech idnt revial though ...

G'night.