This needs to stop

[soulkeeper]

I’ve noticed something around here that is bothering me quite a bit, it seems on this forum and some others that soon as someone comes here to post about a possible health problem they are having, they are flamed and shut out.

Honestly why are some of you being so ignorant? I see it all over these health forums and frankly it’s disturbing, soon as someone posts about a possible health problem that might be associated with vaping, everyone jumps all over them and tries to give excuses or tells them to shut up.

No matter how much research you have done on the internet, or how smart you may think you are, you are wrong for stating that vaping is or isn’t completely healthy, not enough time has even passed to even see any long term health effects.

You can argue all day long, but you have to face it, we are the guinea pigs for all this.

So I question why are some of you are so quickly to flame or become flat out rude to people trying to share their health issues that might be associated to vaping? Shouldn’t we be opening our minds and embracing any and all possible health issues people might be experiencing?

My parents grew up in the age when everyone was stating smoking was completely safe, everyone smoked because no one knew that it was so damaging. Don’t you think we should learn from history and instead of arguing that it’s safe, start saying that we honestly just don’t know? Maybe instead of acting like we have doctor’s degrees and convincing everyone they have a minor allergy, actually express some concern and urge them to seek medical attention?

I love vaping as much as anyone else, but I’m not going to try and shut someone up who has information that might be a red flag for a possible side effect of vaping.

 

[MagnusEunson]

Heck... I'll put ~another~ soap box under you if you repeat that rant every so often as a reminder. -Magnus

 

[bjannr]

I was concerned with the health issues of vaping before I started. It still bothers me to some extent that no one knows the long term effects of vaping. I do know that I have less colds, and in general feel better than I did when using analogs. So I feel vaping is probably not as damaging to our bodies as smoking is. I will not try to persuade anyone to start vaping. If I am asked questions about it I will answer the best I can, and will help someone out if they want to start. There is little in our lives today that could be considered 100% safe.

 

[Eddie.Willers]

People coming to this forum with their concerns should be encouraged - that much I agree with.

However, there is still a great deal of fear-mongering from those who have need to spread FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) because their own livelihoods depend on the continued widespread use of tobacco, and all the revenue and issues that generates.

Sadly, when one does have a genuine concern, as a vaper, it is hard not to have the rationality clouded by that FUD. I think that many of the longer-term members here have made up their own minds about the safety (or lack of) of vaping compared to tobacco. In a sense, they are the converted and are weary of challenging the FUD in those who seem unwilling or incapable of making up their own minds.

 

[sheryder]

You don't expect to post such a blanket accusatory statement without being challenged on it so let me be one of the first to help you out. I get a little weary of people in general who blame the latest "exposure" for their current woe regardless of fact. For example, one of my kids wouldn't eat pizza for years because they threw up right after eating a piece. They wouldn't listen to my common sense explanation that they would have gotten sick regardless cuz they came down with the flu coincidentally at the same time.

We need to be aware of how vaping affects us each individually but need to use some common sense too. SOME people will have immediate issues with some part of vaping. MOST people will not. None of us know the long term effects of our exposure. I will never say vaping is safe but neither will I say it is dangerous. Driving is more immediately dangerous. I could be hit by a car tomorrow and die....just because I was vaping when I got hit wouldn't mean vaping caused my death. All of us have a bit of fear of what we are doing and you are correct that we are the guinea pigs.

It isn't so much that we blast those who come forward with issues as it is trying to help them determine if vaping truly is the problem. If a person wants to continue to vape but is scared that a symptom has arisen I want to help trouble shoot their problem so they can continue to vape if vaping can be eliminated as the root of their problem. Sometimes we can help to identify what PART of vaping may be a cause. After identifying the problem sometimes it can be eliminated (ie PG allergy) and sometimes it can't.

 

[ukeman]

I agree with OP.... if one wants to pose questions in this regard, one has to come with flame ......ant suit on, it seems to me. Which effectively shuts down most discussion of the issues here leaving us no better off than before...

I am a chain vaper, and i am concerned about warnings regarding PG in general.. i've gotten some useful and objective response, but in general, it's a hassle.

thanks OP.

 

[jayvolt]

It does need to stop, on both sides. Blaming vaping without just cause and fear mongering is just as unacceptable as flaming a person for posting REAL issues. The problem becomes this : which ones are real? I have seen people blaming vaping for symptoms that were clearly tobacco withdrawl issues. The common cold. Bacterial pneumonia. Among other scary medical issues that have no real link to vaping.

I think I have sung it from the mountaintop, please go see a medical doctor, and ascertain the truth before posting. If there is a real issue people need to know. Intelligent conversation is a must in all of these health matters, and I have seen it break down on both sides. I have seen people blasted for opening their mouths, and I have seen people try and demonize e-cigs with no clear reason or understanding of the device.

I personally switched successfully, and though like many others I don't consider it 100% safe, I feel in my heart it is a better alternative. I have had issues (mostly with particular flavorings and colorings) and have figured it out and adjusted based on info here on this site. Based on info gained through intelligent conversation.

You have a great point OP and I hope ALOT of people read this thread, and all of them take a bit of sage advise.

 

[shanagan]

I'm going to add another .02 to the pot: One thing to keep in mind when telling people simply to visit a doctor is that because of the experimental nature of vaping, we might find ourselves in the unique (and frustrating) position of having to do our own research to bring to our doctors, precisely because e-cigs are largely untested w/in the medical community. Your doctor literally may not have the right information with which to make a correct diagnosis - or at the least, a diagnosis that either absolves or points to e-cig use as its cause.

I've got a neuro condition that popped up roughly six months into vaping. Research has shown flavoring compounds that can cause neuro damage when inhaled (hexanedione) that causes symptoms identical to what I've experienced. (Hexanedione is a diketone compound - diketone compounds are used widely in the flavoring industry and are listed as safe for ingestion from the FDA - really there's no reason why a vendor wouldn't use them.) I vaped liquids containing similar flavoring compounds/diketones, though hopefully not the one shown to cause neurological damage. (If you want an exercise in futility, try to follow the chain of ingredients used in liquids - even when I was working with an exceptional seller who was concerned about my condition as he also suffers neuro damage and was willing to be 100% transparent with me, then you have to continue to chase the flavoring upstream and it is NOT easy to do and there are at least three steps ahead of the vendor on that chain, frequently ending in a not-insignificant language barrier.)

I had to print out reams of information for my neurologist, and frankly, I don't believe she followed up on most of it - she simply diagnosed me with what she knew. What was that? Idiopathic transverse myelitis. Idiopathic = arising spontaneously or from an obscure or unknown cause.

The point of the story is life is not an episode of House, unfortunately. Just going to a doctor is no guarantee that they'll be able to tell you anything about vaping or possible vaping-related health issues. That may fall on you - and in that case, sometimes the only thing to do is talk to other vapers. Respectful discussion would be a plus. As you pointed out in another thread, Jay, a person either has symptoms or they do not - sometimes figuring out the cause of them just isn't as simple as "go see your doctor."

 

[jayvolt]

Very much so. My DR. (thank god) is understanding and has helped me through alot of issues (99% not vape related). Most will not. I am sorry to hear about the issue shana, did you figure it out? I know there is a very paticular flavoring I am mildly allergic to, and most attributed it to PG. Dropping the liquid I had that flavoring stopped the allergic reactions and all is well now. I had SOB, and after visiting my DR (recently quit smoking himself) it was attributed to the healing process after cessation. People need to feel safe in posting their issues. And all of us out there with any experience need to give our help and advise intelligently and compassionately. Jumping to an instant conclusion that the person is a troll helps no one.

 

[shanagan]

Thanks, Jay. Nope, it's still a mystery. I went back to smoking, but occasionally vape now and then - but never without being nervous that I'm tempting fate, unfortunately. Addiction is a helluva thing, huh? So is the devil you know versus the one you don't.

 

[jayvolt]

That being said though. I have a tendency to research the person that posted if they have under 50 posts or are VERY new. Not to say I instantly assume (the mother of all ---- ups), more I read all of their posts and try to judge whether or not they are fear mongers or not. I am not asking people to just jump in and trust all of the post, more so asking to not jump on the bandwagon and assume they are trolls.

 

[jayvolt]

Shana did you try flavorless? I have some 100% VG unflavored in 18MG I could send you. When I first had "issues" I tried that route to narrow things down. Honestly at times I vape that just because. I have a 3ML sealed bottle if you are interested.

 

[James Wall]

I was about to say the same thing as Jayvolt did, have you tried unflavored? When I saw his post and almost responded the same way, what struck me is that most of the responses I've read to people trying to post about a health problem is exactly what another poster here said, they're trouble-shooting. I don't think that's discrediting the health problem as much as trying to track it further. Trouble-shooting, I think, is more useful than just saying "oh, I'm so sorry for your illness."

 

[wazzup592]

If we started listening to the common problems associated with vaping, then you can find out the real long term side effects. As for nlw though, I am content with vapimg. I feel better, more alert, I can breathe better. The only thing that truly bothers me is the fact that the vapor pulls the water from you I have heard and I fear I may become dehydrated. I am no doctor by any means but it would give me peace at mind to k ow that when I'm inhaling this vapor that is pulling the water from my mouth and esophagus, that this water is not pooling in the bottom of my lungs. That is what I would like to know.

 

[jayvolt]

Water pooling in the lungs would be very clear and you would be in the hospital for sure. Since we vape daily the effects of something like that would be over time, and the loss of your ability to breath would be very noticeable. I am pretty sure also with some vapers out there doing this for 3+ years that we would have heard some news of it by now. I am sure the FDA would love to get their hands on something like that.

 

[keyzygirl]

Ive been vaping for 2 years,my chest Xrays are clear.No fluid in my lungs at all.Doesnt prove anything,except MY lungs are clear.If it worries you you should get a chest Xray and check.Alot of the complaints are withdrawel related and some are not.Ill admit when I started I was a tiny bit worried,but 2 years later I feel better,breath easier and hope I made the right choice.We may not know for another 10 years what the effects are.Only time will tell.

 

[shanagan]

When I do occasionally vape now, I use ecopure (highly recommended, btw). But I'm too nervous to go back to vaping anything fulltime - I dodged a bullet with where this lesion is located on my spinal cord and not only is it nerve-wracking for me when I do vape, it makes my husband and kids leery too. (And yes, I realize how insane it is that I am trading a big fat "maybe" for an almost guaranteed cancer/copd/lung disease from smoking down the line. I'm not saying any of it makes sense, only that it's where I'm at.)

James, I'd agree with you, but in the cases where the trouble-shooting does go awry, it goes off the rails into symptom-shaming in a big way. I kind of wish the health forum were moderated a little more heavily, honestly, to prevent that from happening.

 

[jayvolt]

And I would volunteer if I were not a vendor. And shana, everyone needs to do what works for them. If vaping is a no go for replacement, and you have to smoke, you do. I know far too many people that still smoke and hide in shame, and they shouldn't. BTW ecopure is good for sure, if you are interested I have the ultrapure.

I snuss from time to time (see dvaps maoi threads) because I have issues with GAD and panic disorder. Hang my head in shame though, nope. I am on 4 threads right now that could go either way. Flame war or civil conversation is step away on either side. Idiocy abounds in an anonymous group.

I hope you feel better shana, and I hope that condition is one that reverses itself. Be safe and take care, and feel free to pm me if you need to constructively chat. That goes for anyone out there.

 

[KiloWatts]

Agreed with the OP. I've noticed the same thing. If you are one of the offenders, knock it off.

 

[wazzup592]

Thanks for debunking my fluid in lungs thought. In my mind it makes sense, but I have no heavy breathing or wheezing or anything. wasn't concerned just was wondering of there were any cases of it.