Time to get serious about the fight.

[SloHand]

Reading kanadiankat last post got me reminiscing about my days of activism. He has a very good point about making as much noise with our MP's as we can muster. We have to make noise and keep the subject on their radar.

I worked with a nonprofit group called Web Networks (they have the greatest URL ever web.ca and .net). Anyway, the really smart web designer folks that were there had designed a beautiful web app [http://www.web.net/online-campaigns] that allows you to put up petitions that, when completed by supporters, would fax and email your letter to your local MP's in Ottawa. The letter could be in your own words or you could just send the 'standard' response.

I've lost touch with Oliver Zielke, the executive director at Web Networks and I no longer live in Toronto but he maybe a resource to talk to about this app.

The easier we can make it for people to voice their support the better. In the end Health Canada is the bureaucratic machine that does what politicians direct them to do.

 

[nuclearbroccoli]

I know dude,

I really liked the portrait you painted, I just wanted to be clear that we need a unified voice. My post came off rather arrogant and that wasn't my intention. Like I said, I have been part of these groups before and sunk a ton of time into them, only to see them dissolved with petty arguing and inactivity. I hope you'll keep me posted and consider me dedicated as this progresses.

Best of luck,

Charlie

NP. I understand. And thanks.

 

[nuclearbroccoli]

I know this is way off the track here, but what about alternative approaches, like organize a group and approach a well know music act to aquaint them with the plight of vapers and see if there is any willingness to write a song that illuminates the problem to the public fan base. Musicians are well known for taking on social and political issues with direct snubbing of politicians (or thereabouts).

Maybe there is some viable alternatives to cosider. When gays wanted acceptance what did they do, have parades and do that every year - showing people they are just people in an entertaining way.

As vapers we are regular people that are trying to work the political ropes to take on Health Canada. HC is an arm of the government and are in their element and very political savvy and to fight them on their home ground seems to be the very definition of daunting.

I don't know, maybe the slow and labourous path of forging political headway with small steps here and there is all that is possible. The genuine interest that people have when they see a vaper for the first time, or the ease of converting smokers to vaping has energy in it and should be harnessed in some way that tips the balance away from HC in an arena that HC isn't holding all the cards.

LOL! United breaks guitars seemed to work.
That's not a bad idea though actually... In general, celebrity support can often help a cause at it does get a certain segment of the population to pay attention.
I wonder if there are any Canadian celebrities or musicians that smoke that we could try to convert to vaping....

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

LOL! United breaks guitars seemed to work.
That's not a bad idea though actually... In general, celebrity support can often help a cause at it does get a certain segment of the population to pay attention.
I wonder if there are any Canadian celebrities or musicians that smoke that we could try to convert to vaping....

Also have a good friend whom I met through an activist org that is very close friends with a very well known actor who uses Ecigs. He's away in Europe for 6? months but I will contact him and see what transpires.

Already contacted...have also been in touch with 2 politicians who owe me and I have converted 2 of their family members to Ecigs. I think though I'll being doing this on my own.

 

[Anaconda]

My Wife's cousin is an MP here in NB. Everytime we have a family gathering I try sneak over to talk to him, but she get's ...... at me.... One of these day's I'm just going to set up an appointment with him so we can have a serious talk.

 

[nuclearbroccoli]

Sorry everyone who was following this thread. I've been a little off on this for the last few days. Had a bit of a cold, my birthday, and dealing with a flat tire (stupid back alleys and nails!). Consequently, I haven't gotten much done this week.
Rest assured I haven't given up on this, just got slowed down a little. I'm going to get into contact with a few select people this week and figure out a few details, then I'll get started on some of it.

Just wanted to check in!

 

[nuclearbroccoli]

UPDATE:
First of all, my apologies to all who may have been interested in what I was trying to start, and my lack of communication as of late.
Here's where things are sitting as of this moment: The group I was hoping to start is essentially dead due to lack of interest. I don't hold this against anyone, but it was disappointing to say the least. All told, I managed to find 2 people and 4 vendors that had an interest, but as I said when I started, I felt the group could not be led by vendors due to the way the group may be perceived as a result.
Unfortunately, 3 members do not a group make.

That said, I haven't given up, but can not approach this issue on a federal level without support. While I realize that Health Canada is Federal, health care falls under provincial jurisdiction, so I intend to see if there is anything that can be done a provincial level instead.
I'm currently researching this angle, and will let you know what I can find out.

Again, sorry to anyone who was hoping for a Canadian focused group, and good luck to the vendors who are now working together to fight this. I wish you all the best.

Oh, and if I don't manage to visit here again before Christmas (Very busy - I work in retail), MERRY CHRISTMAS!

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

Thanks for trying nuclearbroccoli. Most people are reactive rather than proactive and will not get involved until it's almost too late. Like my Dad used to say- "You're only a failure if you don't try". If Cdn vapers were serious about getting involved this post should have been 100+ pages IMHO.
Again thank you very much for your efforts and know that things are being accomplished albeit in small baby steps.
Sincerely, Vapoor.
And a VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and yours.

 

[twtmc]

You know, I'm kind of happy with how things are right now in regards to health canada. The fact that we can't get anything from the states is a tad bit annoying, but at the same time it is damn near FORCING people to buy from a Canadian vendor. The fact that we can't buy e-cigarettes brick and mortar from gas stations and pharmacies (at least not with nic) is annoying but it is damn near FORCING people to buy from a small vendor. The vendors have to worry about the possibility of being shut down, and that means that the only people (>90% at least) willing to actually put in the work with the risk of getting the "dreaded letter" are those that are passionate about it. How many terrible vendors do we have in Canada? There are so few that we can really say anything bad about.

 

[sabyrock]

Talking about that dam letter.
they are changing there ball game.
HC as email volusion. (The companies many of us SUPPLIER are using to built there website and have a server and host) The email state: Please help us on eliminating (site_____________) and shut down the sell nicotine. we believe a reputable companies like your would ....bla bla bla..you get the point

Now they are going a step further.

 

[kalvinf]

Talking about that dam letter.
they are changing there ball game.
HC as email volusion. (The companies many of us SUPPLIER are using to built there website and have a server and host) The email state: Please help us on eliminating (site_____________) and shut down the sell nicotine. we believe a reputable companies like your would ....bla bla bla..you get the point

Now they are going a step further.

That would depend on where the web site is physically hosted, say if it were in a US state that had lax or approval laws for e-cigarettes it wouldn't work for HC. Or even somewhere like the Ukraine - it's a global world (sorry for the phrase) but HC's jurisdiction ends at the border.

 

[sabyrock]

That would depend on where the web site is physically hosted, say if it were in a US state that had lax or approval laws for e-cigarettes it wouldn't work for HC. Or even somewhere like the Ukraine - it's a global world (sorry for the phrase) but HC's jurisdiction ends at the border.

Just what i wanted to hear, and that is what i was thinking too. not much they are going to be able to do with this .....

 

[Song]

I would help nuclear but i'm a vendor =/.


I think the best way to go at this is to grow our numbers and get more converts =p, more vapers = more political power to put pressure on Health Canada and the government. Personally i've been trying to show everyone that smoke this thing and give them the information they need to know without pestering, just show them me using the device and if there interested teach them more. So far its been working pretty well. If everyone shows all the smokers they know the device i'm pretty sure we can grow pretty large.

 

[1SicPuppy]

That would depend on where the web site is physically hosted, say if it were in a US state that had lax or approval laws for e-cigarettes it wouldn't work for HC. Or even somewhere like the Ukraine - it's a global world (sorry for the phrase) but HC's jurisdiction ends at the border.

Sorry to poke my head but from my understanding it would depend on what information they can collect from the site owner despite wether it was hosted off shore or not, (depending on the host) Once again not sure about your law but where I am I could be liable for an off shore website I create or administer.... I have used katzglobal for several projects I was paranoid about in the past and paid for the .info and .org domain and hosting via bitcoin and used a VPS.

I wish you all the best with your fight for an important cause.

 

[Song]

Sorry to poke my head but from my understanding it would depend on what information they can collect from the site owner despite wether it was hosted off shore or not, (depending on the host) Once again not sure about your law but where I am I could be liable for an off shore website I create or administer.... I have used katzglobal for several projects I was paranoid about in the past and paid for the .info and .org domain and hosting via bitcoin and used a VPS.

I wish you all the best with your fight for an important cause.

I don't really think health canada would be to ready to take anyone to court just yet over stuff like that it would just create even more of a situation for them and put this thing in more public light then they want. Personally I would have a lot of things to say to them in court if they ever tried put me there. Something what Dr King said about just and unjust laws or rules, where unjust ones need not to be followed, something about the charter of rights and how there directly causing the deaths of thousands every day by banning this. Of course I would probably still end up in jail , which is not something I want, but I'd rather like to think it would make them look really bad in the eyes of the public.

 

[Song]

Oh i have another ideal, create a vaping religion, with vaping as a religious activity, separation of state and church and freedom of religion pretty much makes it so that they cannot intervene in it. I mean hell at some point we had kids in middle schools carrying ceremonial knifes for there coming of ages because it was one of there cultural or religious thing. ... just throwing random ideal out there

 

[Pipeous]

I am working on a very public thing that should help the fight and get some exposure. when I am ready to launch it, I'll let everyone know.... stage 1 is having my head shaved for cancer patient wigs hehe, that preludes the fund raising thing.. I am releasing a song with 100% procedes going to the canadian cancer society... it's taken me a ton of research to get things going. the world of distribution and such has changed so much.

I learned through racing rc cars, that charity fund raisers gets good image to the community. eCigs will be represented and the video will be shot while I wear a vape club shirt from jugheads

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

A good idea except...
From the CCS:
"We will accept financial or GIK contributions (excluding the pharmaceutical products
themselves) and engage in a relationship with a pharmaceutical, biotech and medical devices
and equipment company (excluding those outlined above) provided:
There are no issues related to the Food and Drug Act Regulations."

Edit: Also if the CCS turns the money down you will be legally obligated to return the money to donors even if you find another org that's willing to accept the donations because that would be misrepresentation of the original targeted org. The only way around this would be in the wording of the event. In any case Good Luck.

I am working on a very public thing that should help the fight and get some exposure. when I am ready to launch it, I'll let everyone know.... stage 1 is having my head shaved for cancer patient wigs hehe, that preludes the fund raising thing.. I am releasing a song with 100% procedes going to the canadian cancer society... it's taken me a ton of research to get things going. the world of distribution and such has changed so much.

I learned through racing rc cars, that charity fund raisers gets good image to the community. eCigs will be represented and the video will be shot while I wear a vape club shirt from jugheads

 

[Pipeous]

I actually have been discussing with the place that takes the hair about donating to them. They do mobile work and help patients out. The more I read their website, the more it touches my heart. I lost my father to lung cancer so it really hits home.

 

[mopar]

I don't really think health canada would be to ready to take anyone to court just yet over stuff like that it would just create even more of a situation for them and put this thing in more public light then they want. Personally I would have a lot of things to say to them in court if they ever tried put me there. Something what Dr King said about just and unjust laws or rules, where unjust ones need not to be followed, something about the charter of rights and how there directly causing the deaths of thousands every day by banning this. Of course I would probably still end up in jail , which is not something I want, but I'd rather like to think it would make them look really bad in the eyes of the public.

I'll send you a cake with a file in it good luck!