If we self regulate to the level dictated by an overbearing, controlling government, we are, in effect expressing our agreement with and acceptance of that overbearing, controlling government.
Time to take a break
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My point just made. You assume that you know what I am thinking/feeling and the reasons behind my actions. Truly you have never paid any attention to my contributions to this forum. I actually do have a very open mind.
Thank you Robin
You are so very correct.
Mattie i get your upset with views like mine but see here's why i have the view that i do...there are inconsiderate vapers, especially the younger ones, who are very intrusive with their vaping out in public places. Me i am a tootle puffer and i believe you are as well...but your not seeing the problem because you are looking at the way YOU vape, but not taking into consideration the "other" vapers that businesses have to deal with throughout the day. If they allow vaping in the store for example, they know they are going to have to deal with the "other" vapers which offends their customers and causes complaints. So they have to just draw a line for all vapers. I get it because i have witnessed these "other" vapers...the issue isn't the daily tootle puffers that visit their place of business, but they also can't allow massive cloud makers either given they will have upset customers. I have nothing against cloud makers at all...but many do not get that vaping like that out in public places causes problems.
At the end of the day..it's just the way it is and i can respect why vaping is handled much like a smoker in these situations...smoking is offensive in one way...but vaping is also offensive in another way "MASSIVE lingering smelly CLOUDS" . So you take second hand vapor harm out of the equation and you still have a problem...massive lingering smelly clouds that offends others in public places. The only thing a business can do is just draw a line for all vapers to follow.
So i ask...what is your solution? how do businesses deal with massive cloud blowers coming into their place of business and clouding the place up with strawberry scented clouds that smells like rotten fruit to others?
At the end of the day..it's just the way it is and i can respect why vaping is handled much like a smoker in these situations...smoking is offensive in one way...but vaping is also offensive in another way "MASSIVE lingering smelly CLOUDS" . So you take second hand vapor harm out of the equation and you still have a problem...massive lingering smelly clouds that offends others in public places. The only thing a business can do is just draw a line for all vapers to follow.
So i ask...what is your solution? how do businesses deal with massive cloud blowers coming into their place of business and clouding the place up with strawberry scented clouds that smells like rotten fruit to others?
Maybe I should clarify. It is not just one thing. It is everything. Here we have something that could possibly eradicate smoking, save countless lives and all I see here anymore is bickering about the small stuff. It wasn't just one thread or one subject. It is nit-picking things to death. Instead of celebrating this wonderful invention it is being demonized. And the sad part of that---It is being done by vapers 
This may simplify things a bit too much but I'm going to try anyway.
My suggestion to businesses would be to deal with it the same way bars deal with unruly patrons. Deal with those that take it to the obnoxious level by asking them to leave if they continue a behavior they have been warned not to do. If they can comply with a condition of not blowing clouds, they can stay inside and vape.
If a drunk person is disruptive, they are asked to leave. The rest of the people drinking and behaving moderately (or even drunk but not getting obnoxious) are allowed to continue.
I urge businesses to not punish those of us that can follow the rules of the business that we patronize. If we do not like those rules, we have the choice not to spend our money or time there. Or the business has the choice to not let those that don't, or can't follow rules, into their place.
Shouldn't it ultimately be the businesses choice? Not something mandated by state or gov? Bars seriously lost a lot of business when smoking laws were forced (yes forced) onto them.
My suggestion to businesses would be to deal with it the same way bars deal with unruly patrons. Deal with those that take it to the obnoxious level by asking them to leave if they continue a behavior they have been warned not to do. If they can comply with a condition of not blowing clouds, they can stay inside and vape.
If a drunk person is disruptive, they are asked to leave. The rest of the people drinking and behaving moderately (or even drunk but not getting obnoxious) are allowed to continue.
I urge businesses to not punish those of us that can follow the rules of the business that we patronize. If we do not like those rules, we have the choice not to spend our money or time there. Or the business has the choice to not let those that don't, or can't follow rules, into their place.
Shouldn't it ultimately be the businesses choice? Not something mandated by state or gov? Bars seriously lost a lot of business when smoking laws were forced (yes forced) onto them.
Here in Nebraska, in the almost 2 years I've been a vaper, the only place I have seen a single "large plume" of vapor has been in a vape shop. Matter of fact, it is rare I even see another vaper at all, other then in vape shops. I would be curious the frequency of these instances of "abusive plumes of vapor" in other parts of the country.
I completely agree with this Robin. Back when the smoking bans were sweeping the country a little country convenience store/cafe in my little town was forced to enforce the smoking ban. They had absolutely no choice in the matter. That wasn't right and neither is what is happening right now with vaping.
I don't go to bars, we seldom ever go out to eat (I prefer my own cooking) so the bans will not affect me but up to this point I was trying to watch out for those that it will affect. The only place I vape is in the car going to and from town and in my own home. Not because of bans but because I am basically a hermit (can a little ol' lady be considered a hermit)
I don't go to bars, we seldom ever go out to eat (I prefer my own cooking) so the bans will not affect me but up to this point I was trying to watch out for those that it will affect. The only place I vape is in the car going to and from town and in my own home. Not because of bans but because I am basically a hermit (can a little ol' lady be considered a hermit)
It depends on the area. I have personally witnessed this behavior in an airport. I do say though, in all my times traveling (it is truly a lot lately) there has only been this one time.
Sadly, I did not have the guts to discuss it with the guy.
Shame on me.
You have to pick your battles and maybe it was for the best. I wouldn't have had the guts to do it either.It depends on the area. I have personally witnessed this behavior in an airport. I do say though, in all my times traveling (it is truly a lot lately) there has only been this one time.
Sadly, I did not have the guts to discuss it with the guy.
Shame on me.
Breaks are good. When a forum consumes you, upsets you or just plain old not fun anymore it is in deed time for a break. I had to take a break from hunting forums here and their but within a few months I went back and all was well. Take a break for a month or two and when you get back I am sure the enjoyment will be back also. We can not control the world but we can control ourselves. But one thing I never did was announce on forum I was leaving. I left freely and on my own so why make a big announcement. CHEERS!
You have to pick your battles and maybe it was for the best. I wouldn't have had the guts to do it either.
YES , Your still here , that is fantastic
Now regarding the saying something to somebody about blowing large clouds in airports , i was taught by my father to only say something if your much bigger than the other person , if your equal in size or smaller it's not worth risking it .
The guy was younger and bigger. Plus hubby was with me and I respect hubby's feelings about not causing a scene. I didn't know if it would or not so I chose not to try. If he hadn't been with me, I can't say for certain if I would have acted. I guess it would have depended on my frame of mind at that moment.YES , Your still here , that is fantastic
Now regarding the saying something to somebody about blowing large clouds in airports , i was taught by my father to only say something if your much bigger than the other person , if your equal in size or smaller it's not worth risking it .
Today I am traveling alone. My mind set, now, would have me opening up a conversation.
@Robino1 Ditto. Having worked in a bar for 30 years I can tell you it is the owner
who makes the rules. The owner also defines what these rules mean. I have had
people on this very forum tell me they were bar managers and had to ban vaping
completely because of so called cloud bro's. That just tells me corporate banned them.
It also tells me they have no idea how the bar business operates. You do not run it
like a pre-school. A paying customer is a paying customer. A happy paying customer brings
other happy paying customers in with them when they return because they were happy.
One does not ban things out of convenience. One works toward finding an equitable solution.
Here in Saint Paul vaping was legal prior to the Counties back handed manipulations.
most bars allowed vaping but,no cloud chasing or in common terms don't fog up the area.
Everyone was happy. Us vapers were happy because we could vape. The non-vapers were
happy because they didn't notice us vaping. I myself assumed I was the only one vaping
until I started to pay attention. There were no lingering vapor clouds. No noticeable orders.
At least no orders strong enough to get over other normal bar type smells.
By the time the county banned it for everybody every business semi-public or private
had already addressed the issue and handled it themselves. That didn't stop them
from remaking up everyone's mind.
The bottom line is bars like your business. You give them more business sitting
at the bar than outside vaping swapping dirty jokes with your fellow vapers and
smokers. Mixed company can get along if left to work out the solution without
imperial entanglements.
Regards
Mike
who makes the rules. The owner also defines what these rules mean. I have had
people on this very forum tell me they were bar managers and had to ban vaping
completely because of so called cloud bro's. That just tells me corporate banned them.
It also tells me they have no idea how the bar business operates. You do not run it
like a pre-school. A paying customer is a paying customer. A happy paying customer brings
other happy paying customers in with them when they return because they were happy.
One does not ban things out of convenience. One works toward finding an equitable solution.
Here in Saint Paul vaping was legal prior to the Counties back handed manipulations.
most bars allowed vaping but,no cloud chasing or in common terms don't fog up the area.
Everyone was happy. Us vapers were happy because we could vape. The non-vapers were
happy because they didn't notice us vaping. I myself assumed I was the only one vaping
until I started to pay attention. There were no lingering vapor clouds. No noticeable orders.
At least no orders strong enough to get over other normal bar type smells.
By the time the county banned it for everybody every business semi-public or private
had already addressed the issue and handled it themselves. That didn't stop them
from remaking up everyone's mind.
The bottom line is bars like your business. You give them more business sitting
at the bar than outside vaping swapping dirty jokes with your fellow vapers and
smokers. Mixed company can get along if left to work out the solution without
imperial entanglements.
Regards
Mike
Im willing to bet the person who threw the hissy fit would even make the same demands of you while you vaped in your own home with her being present ( not that she would ever get invited there to begin with )
)
(((((((Matti))))))))) sorry you've had so much to deal with. I can understand, but hope you don't leave or that you'll at least be back. Things like this are why I stick to a very few threads and just don't venture outside of those much.
Maybe I should clarify. It is not just one thing. It is everything. Here we have something that could possibly eradicate smoking, save countless lives and all I see here anymore is bickering about the small stuff. It wasn't just one thread or one subject. It is nit-picking things to death. Instead of celebrating this wonderful invention it is being demonized. And the sad part of that---It is being done by vapers
Followed your link..........and Signed the Petition, as I feel everyone should.
https://www.change.org/p/u-s-senate...products-3810d737-ccd4-4595-a600-50f3f0c55934
Happy to see you still posting.
Sweetest Mattie,
I ever so much hope that you're only going through a lil' 'dip in the road'; we all do occasionally!
Please don't let da downers get ya down (BTW, was it sumpin' I said?)
Regardless, I'll miss you and your sharing spirit while you take a break; just make it a short one!
You've been a cherished part of my luv for this vaping venue...
I ever so much hope that you're only going through a lil' 'dip in the road'; we all do occasionally!
Please don't let da downers get ya down (BTW, was it sumpin' I said?)
Regardless, I'll miss you and your sharing spirit while you take a break; just make it a short one!
You've been a cherished part of my luv for this vaping venue...
A lot of what the problem is and not that I have a problem with clouds it's just non-smokers typically don't like them, big clouds that fog up a place could be considered a nuisance in a restaurant, for people that don't mind vapers but just don't want a fogged up place a sign like this would be needed because honestly when I'm vaping on my stealth vape nobody even knows I am same goes for a large portion of vapers.
If I had to choose between not vaping inside somewhere and vaping on a simpler device I'd choose the simpler device any day.... Hell they could sell cigalikes for vapers that don't have a simple device and make some cash...
If I had to choose between not vaping inside somewhere and vaping on a simpler device I'd choose the simpler device any day.... Hell they could sell cigalikes for vapers that don't have a simple device and make some cash...
Boy, I'm sure glad I've stayed away from some of these discussions the Op referred to. It's been a bit testy even in some of the not so obvious places lately, too. I blame it on election season 
. (Joke, sorta.)
As I see it -- the younger than me generations are used to the smoking prohibitive laws as it's been that way all or much of their life. I personally know some who would never dream of smoking in their own home, much less any no smoking area. So, it seems logical to many of them for these same prohibitions to apply to the modern fad alternative -- vaping.
Thus, in my city there is no vaping where there is no smoking. Now my entire state has a batch of bills lined up that will all but make vaping illegal anywhere but your privately owned home or land or the few vape bars that get permission to stay in business. Soon I expect when a ticket cop sees a small plume one would get pulled over to make sure everyone in the car is 21, too. No ID needed to vote, but ID needed to ride in a car with voting age smoker or vaper.
I've not crossed vaping trails with you very much, Mattie. But, I do hope some of the suggestions here are encouraging you to continue to contribute to those you may help and keep your friends happy, too.
. (Joke, sorta.)As I see it -- the younger than me generations are used to the smoking prohibitive laws as it's been that way all or much of their life. I personally know some who would never dream of smoking in their own home, much less any no smoking area. So, it seems logical to many of them for these same prohibitions to apply to the modern fad alternative -- vaping.
Thus, in my city there is no vaping where there is no smoking. Now my entire state has a batch of bills lined up that will all but make vaping illegal anywhere but your privately owned home or land or the few vape bars that get permission to stay in business. Soon I expect when a ticket cop sees a small plume one would get pulled over to make sure everyone in the car is 21, too. No ID needed to vote, but ID needed to ride in a car with voting age smoker or vaper.
I've not crossed vaping trails with you very much, Mattie. But, I do hope some of the suggestions here are encouraging you to continue to contribute to those you may help and keep your friends happy, too.
Thank you bunches my dear sweet friends. 
one of a kind Iffy, sweet Deb, beautiful tearose and everyone else that has given me encouragement during this stressful time. I do apologize to all that I made sad.
one of a kind Iffy, sweet Deb, beautiful tearose and everyone else that has given me encouragement during this stressful time. I do apologize to all that I made sad.- Status
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