Why are so many vapers against themselves?

[CaliforniaGirl]

+1~!!!!!
The funniest part to me, is how we have been vaping in public for years, yet Vapers in the wild are hard to spot. Stealth vaping by the THOUSANDS!!!!! Yet, because of a video or an accidental cloud, suddenly we are demonized? Get a grip people. We don't choose to vape so we can smoke, we choose to vape because it's NOT smoke. We have stumbled onto the only way to avoid smoking and people need to celebrate, not treat us like ... Wow, they shouldn't be treating anybody, not even smokers, like smokers. Ban bullying, not people.

Well...realistically, not so very many years, really, and a very, very small percentage of the total population. I have to think that's at least part of the reason why others haven't seen it so much...it just doesn't exist very much. On here it does...but this is a vaping forum.

I get what you're saying but I don't think there have been millions of vapers all around me for years upon years and I just haven't seen it. Rather, it's simply the law of percentages. Only a comparatively small percentage of the population smokes today and a very small percentage of that small percentage vapes even part-time.

I agree with "no bullying."

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

Speaking of misinformation, why is an old bill that didn't go anywhere being treated as if it's something recent and live?

^ ^

 

[Zealous]

Reading through many of the articles on this forum I notice that many vapers seem to take the attitude that other vapers should cower to the whims of the antz. They say don't smoke in restaurants, stores are not okay, and basically taking the attitude that if smoking is not allowed there, then they don't want to vape there. Isn't this the same thing as saying they are smoking? Are they ashamed they are vaping? To me they are giving up their freedoms in this country willingly. I'm not saying we should be disrespectful of others, but I just don't understand how they could lie down so willingly.

I feel like there are enough threads about this subject that I won't add to the debate any further. HST I will respond to the OP's thought process as I have some thoughts of my own about this. Personally, I don't care where other vapers think I should or should not vape any more than I care about the opinions of the "anti" groups on the same subject. It's about where I think it's ok to vape. Period. Now I don't want anyone to misunderstand what I'm saying. I am NOT saying I will vape anywhere I damn well please & I don't give a flip what anyone thinks. That's not the attitude I'm trying to present even though those are sort of the words I used.

I am saying that I am CAPABLE of deciding for myself where it is appropriate for me to vape & where it is not. I am capable of deciding where it would be rude to vape & were it would be fine. I am capable of being respectful of other people. And I am capable of dealing with fallout if someone or some group wants to address my behavior. I know how to behave like a grown up.

I think rather than being concerned about our vaping rights being taken away it is more concerning that there is a large group of individuals who do not know how to behave like grown ups. They are NOT capable of making good judgements about when it's appropriate to do something & when it's not. They are not capable of dealing with fallout for their choices therefore they hide behind large groups so they can bully to get their way.

This goes far beyond vaping imo. Being told where I can & can not vape is a sign of what society believes about people. And what these actions are saying is, I should not be allowed to make my own decisions & think for myself. If you are one who contributes to the childish behavior then you need to make changes. If you are one of the people out there who is trying to bully your way into getting your way then you are a person who needs to make changes. If you are a person who is using good judgement & common sense, then I don't think you need to make any changes at all other than perhaps promoting this behavior so others will do it too.

Therefore I will continue to vape where I see fit to vape & abstain where I see fit to abstain. While the option is available to think for myself I'm going to choose that option.

 

[wharr]

I feel like there are enough threads about this subject that I won't add to the debate any further. HST I will respond to the OP's thought process as I have some thoughts of my own about this. Personally, I don't care where other vapers think I should or should not vape any more than I care about the opinions of the "anti" groups on the same subject. It's about where I think it's ok to vape. Period. Now I don't want anyone to misunderstand what I'm saying. I am NOT saying I will vape anywhere I damn well please & I don't give a flip what anyone thinks. That's not the attitude I'm trying to present even though those are sort of the words I used.

I am saying that I am CAPABLE of deciding for myself where it is appropriate for me to vape & where it is not. I am capable of deciding where it would be rude to vape & were it would be fine. I am capable of being respectful of other people. And I am capable of dealing with fallout if someone or some group wants to address my behavior. I know how to behave like a grown up.

I think rather than being concerned about our vaping rights being taken away it is more concerning that there is a large group of individuals who do not know how to behave like grown ups. They are NOT capable of making good judgements about when it's appropriate to do something & when it's not. They are not capable of dealing with fallout for their choices therefore they hide behind large groups so they can bully to get their way.

This goes far beyond vaping imo. Being told where I can & can not vape is a sign of what society believes about people. And what these actions are saying is, I should not be allowed to make my own decisions & think for myself. If you are one who contributes to the childish behavior then you need to make changes. If you are one of the people out there who is trying to bully your way into getting your way then you are a person who needs to make changes. If you are a person who is using good judgement & common sense, then I don't think you need to make any changes at all other than perhaps promoting this behavior so others will do it too.

Therefore I will continue to vape where I see fit to vape & abstain where I see fit to abstain. While the option is available to think for myself I'm going to choose that option.

This ladies and Gentlemen concludes our discussion today. I believe this sums it up. Thank you for posting

 

[wv2win]

Speaking of misinformation, why is an old bill that didn't go anywhere being treated as if it's something recent and live?

No misinformation, as you well know, but instead highlights who in the federal political arena want vaping banned/severely restricted.

If you are capable of more than one sentence carping, try looking up the word "misinformation" and then explain to all of us how it applies to a factual post on who wants vaping restricted. It might require some effort, so I won't hold my breath.

 

[SimianSteam]

It's not that simple. Even in this forum, this thread, we see exaggerated clouds of visualizations in protest of the right to quit smoking.

Of course it's not that simple. Nothing's black and white. It's a starting point, though, and a good rule of thumb. I see nothing wrong with showing up at town hall meetings and having advocacy groups, but in the end it's the ...... that try to cause problems that ruin it for everyone.

Straw man alert. You folks keep pretending that there are two choices:

1) Go outside like you have been told by the ANTZ and vape outdoors only so nobody can ever be offended.
2) Suck in a 14 second draw of vapor and "blow a cloud" in the next guys face.

C'mon. You can vape inside and not blow it in anyone's face. I vape in my office all the time, and nobody is getting vapor "blown in their face."

Let's acknowledge there is room between the two extremes.

There is, BUT...

Most of us here are ex-smokers. We really can't turn around and blame smokers for the vape bans when we used to be part of the problem. I don't think anyone's going to argue that the vape bans are tied to public perception of it being smoking. Therefor, the vape bans are our fault.

There's always going to be that hardcore anti that sees a wisp of vapor and gets offended. Even if you're being casual about it, or discrete, if your vapor is visible it stands the chance of upsetting the wrong person. Also, we live in a country of Freedom. This is not the freedom to do whatever you want. Your freedom only goes as far as the person standing next to you. If they don't want to be exposed to your vapor then that's THEIR right. There's a lot of entitlement in this community, something very typical of addicts. We absolutely DO NOT have the right to vape wherever we want.

 

[Anjaffm]

Right, that's an important point because increasingly draconian smoking bans are becoming more and more commonplace -- outdoor bans and so forth. When we discuss this topic, I think a lot of us are talking past each other because we're used to a particular type of indoor smoking ban, and a number of people here don't think it's unreasonable to put the PV away in certain, if not most, buildings.

And that's fine, but if we allow vaping to be categorized in the public consciousness as akin to smoking, then we will face far more intrusive restrictions in the very near future. Or now, depending on where you live. We've already seen outrageous examples -- like the prohibition against vaping within 25 feet of a bus stop in Washington DC, or against vaping anywhere on a college campus, for instance. Or within 3 blocks of a hospital building. Or within your own car if you're on hospital grounds.

Honestly, restrictions like those would be unacceptable even if they only concerned cigarette smokers, but when the same establishment forces that insist you're a second-class citizen for smoking also go out of their way to oppose the most effective smoking replacements available -- to keep you paying regressive sin taxes or in pursuit of some misguided crusade against nicotine (which by itself is effectively harmless) -- then you know you've got trouble. We are, in a very real sense, fighting for people's lives here. Scoff if you like, but anyone who smoked for any considerable time before finding e-cigarettes knows it's true.

It should go without saying that private establishments (and even physically enclosed public establishments) have the right to prohibit vaping. It also goes without saying that individuals who pointedly flout such prohibitions should be more considerate. As I see it, those statements are self-evident, and therefore only of scant interest.

The real issue is that certain anti-vaping policies, public or private, current or future, bespeak an aggressive and malignant ignorance that must be opposed. That doesn't mean we should all march on the nearest health-food restaurant and conduct a cloud-blowing contest. That doesn't even mean that any particular policy maker doesn't have a right to enact ignorant policies on his own property. It just means that we should try our damnedest to educate the uninformed, and to fight the dishonest.

YES, YES, and YESSSS!!!!
That posting rocks! So true!

 

[NicoHolic]

The vaping isn't smoking battle for public perception was lost from the beginning with the name, "e-cigarette" and the term, "e-smoking." On one hand, we have a tiny, relative handful of addicts on an Internet forum preaching to each other to educate that vaping isn't smoking, and on the other, we have million dollar ad campaigns the public sees, promoting "SMOKE where and when you want." We're a bit like a toddler trying to go up the down escalator in comparison. No offense intended.

 

[madqatter]

S. 1403, the "IDEA Full Funding Act" mentioned by posters above, was from two Congresses ago. Two things happened with the bill:

7/21/2011: Sponsor introductory remarks on measure.
7/21/2011: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Finance.
And there it died.

There is a current "IDEA Full Funding Act," S. 108, but it does not appear to bear any relevant similarity to the 2011 bill.

The current Senate bill that does bear some resemblance to the 2011 bill is S. 826, "Tobacco Tax and Enforcement Reform Act," introduced by Lautenberg, which has five cosponsors (the people previously listed are not all on board). It's been referred to the Committee on Finance. As best I can tell, the bill's only relevance to vaping occurs if the FDA determines that it is a "tobacco product." But that FDA action is more likely than the bill's survival. Govtrack.us estimates that S. 826 has a 1% chance of getting past committee. Its existence appears to be more a symbolic gesture, at this point, than anything else.

 

[wheezal]

S. 1403, the "IDEA Full Funding Act" mentioned by posters above, was from two Congresses ago. Two things happened with the bill:

7/21/2011: Sponsor introductory remarks on measure.
7/21/2011: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Finance.
And there it died.

There is a current "IDEA Full Funding Act," S. 108, but it does not appear to bear any relevant similarity to the 2011 bill.

The current Senate bill that does bear some resemblance to the 2011 bill is S. 826, "Tobacco Tax and Enforcement Reform Act," introduced by Lautenberg, which has five cosponsors (the people previously listed are not all on board). It's been referred to the Committee on Finance. As best I can tell, the bill's only relevance to vaping occurs if the FDA determines that it is a "tobacco product." But that FDA action is more likely than the bill's survival. Govtrack.us estimates that S. 826 has a 1% chance of getting past committee. Its existence appears to be more a symbolic gesture, at this point, than anything else.

your facts! they burns us! AAAUUUGGH!

 

[EvilZoe]

I'm not against myself. I'm against EVERYONE.

People suck .....

 

[retired1]

Aaaaaand, as we're getting more reports and the snark and inability to post within the rules has returned, this thread is done.