tobacco and depression?

[hippiebrian]

I've never been a depressed person. Now I started smoking at a young age and was up to a pack a day by 13 or so. Whenever I'd quit without replacement of some sort, I'd get horribly depressed. Even when I was strictly vaping alone, the depression would rear it's ugly head once sending me back to analogs, which makes me realize it is the maoi's I need. I added snus to my vaping, and no more depression. I'm back to my crazy, happy self again which is great.

Has anyone else experienced this? I'm wondering if I was depressed as a kid (don't remember, but much before the age of 7 or 8 is pretty fuzzy at best) and have been self medicating all these years. Not that I want to get off the nic and maoi's, I'm perfectly happy with my little addictions and will not get rid of them for some big pharma solution that may cause suicidal ideation or worse. Just curious is all.

 

[BigEgo]

It's a well known phenomenon. Studies show that people with mental illnesses are more likely to smoke than the general population. This is especially true in schizophrenics (80% of whom smoke, compared to 20% of the general population). One theory is the release of dopamine that smoking gives might help alleviate some of the negative symptoms.

But it's not just schizophrenics. The data also show that people with depression, bi-polar, etc. also smoke more than the general population (though not as much as schizophrenics).

Interestingly, most SSRI's say on the label not to take them with MAOI's. Of course, the MAOI effect from smoking wouldn't be enough to trigger any adverse reactions.

 

[RoseB]

Hello If what you're doing is working for you, that is good. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is a drug free option for treating depression Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Depression | World of Psychology Here is a short blurb on it. I wanted to share that, because drugs are pushed so hard. A lot of people don't even realize that other options exist.

 

[FireDragon1138]

Yeah, it could be masking depression.

I have Asperger's and been dealing with depression since teenage years (I've only been smoking since around 20-21 though, and I switched to snuff much of my 20's, then nicotine patches). I did a 23andme genetic workup and I looked at the raw data and it turns out I've got some SNP's that make me vulnerable to neurotransmitter imbalances and psychiatric problems, so that makes sense.

I think the only reason I did not smoke in my teenage years was because I did not fall for peer pressure, having Asperger's I just don't pick up on those things. I had to want to do it on my own. But on my mom's side, and my dad's side there were a few heavy smokers, I figured it was in my blood to smoke.

The only antidepressant that works well and agrees with me is Wellbutrin. But getting off that stuff was a POTA, almost addictive.

I've also had good experiences with CBD (cannabidiol) and hemp. I've been taking sometimes during the day and I noticed it changes the way I perceive tobacco and nicotine- makes me chain smoke less from stress.

 

[hippiebrian]

Thanks for all the info! I've been off all cancer sticks for 3 days now and, with the snus, I'm just fine. It just struck me as weird that just the little bit of maoi's in tobaco is all I apparantly need to keep my head straight. I know a lot of people, actually most of them smokers, who are clinically depressed and need to be medicated on top of the smoking to be okay. I'm glad I'm not one of them! I really don't get depressed so long as I get full alkaloids (and that full alkaloid juice is just too expensive for me to experiment with when the snus and snuff work just fine). Life is good!

 

[dave51]

Its the nic
Nic effects the pleasure section of the brain just like cafine or drugs
When you stop supply you no longer feel the pleasure and become depressed

Nic withdrawel is much like drug withdrawel the pleasure center of the brain changes you get the shakes,easy agitation and some even experiance iregularitys of the heart,depression,loss of appitite
Ive gone cold turky on ciggies before and experianced all the symptoms and gone straight back to ciggies to stop them

 

[Bramble]

I've never been a depressed person. Now I started smoking at a young age and was up to a pack a day by 13 or so. Whenever I'd quit without replacement of some sort, I'd get horribly depressed. Even when I was strictly vaping alone, the depression would rear it's ugly head once sending me back to analogs, which makes me realize it is the maoi's I need. I added snus to my vaping, and no more depression. I'm back to my crazy, happy self again which is great.

Has anyone else experienced this? I'm wondering if I was depressed as a kid (don't remember, but much before the age of 7 or 8 is pretty fuzzy at best) and have been self medicating all these years. Not that I want to get off the nic and maoi's, I'm perfectly happy with my little addictions and will not get rid of them for some big pharma solution that may cause suicidal ideation or worse. Just curious is all.

I do okay as long as I have a certain level of nicotine. If I decrease too much or go off it entirely I end up on other medications.

It goes to show that the cessation experts didn't really know what they were doing taking everyone off nicotine after 3 months. I think now NRT is approved for long term use. I am quite sure that vaping even 25 mg as I currently do, is gonna be less harmful than the pill salad I used to have to take to keep me off nicotine.

 

[hippiebrian]

Its the nic
Nic effects the pleasure section of the brain just like cafine or drugs
When you stop supply you no longer feel the pleasure and become depressed

Nic withdrawel is much like drug withdrawel the pleasure center of the brain changes you get the shakes,easy agitation and some even experiance iregularitys of the heart,depression,loss of appitite
Ive gone cold turky on ciggies before and experianced all the symptoms and gone straight back to ciggies to stop them

It isn't the nic, at least not alone. I have quit with just vaping and got horribly depressed. That's at 24mg. It is definately the maoi's, maybe combined with the nic, but not the nic alone. At least for me, that is.

 

[AndriaD]

I've suffered my whole life with anxiety and depression, in greater or lesser degrees; occasionally severe enough to require medication, but usually not that severe, just enough to completely sour my entire outlook, lead me to drug and alcohol addiction (now recovering from that!), and cripple me completely for any sort of career or vocation. My last very severe bout was about 10 yrs ago, complicated by PTSD and peri-menopause. I took Effexor for about 3 yrs, until I lost my health insurance and was forced to stop taking it, because I could no longer afford it. Since then, I've muddled along, sometimes worse, sometimes better, but with no health insurance, I have no options for treatment even when it sometimes grows very severe.

On Feb 28, I enjoyed my first smoke-free day in 39 years, and I was over the moon about it, for probably 2 wks. In the last wk, however, I've noticed a gradual decrease in my ecstasy over quitting, and in the last several days, an extreme downturn in my whole outlook, about everything. I don't have any cravings for cigarettes, no thoughts like "if this doesn't work..." -- I'm absolutely determined that it WILL work, so I'm not self-sabotaging about the fact of having quit smoking; I'm still amazed and pleased about that, despite my growing emotional malaise.

I have heard that there are really significant times for a cigarette-quitter: 3 days, 3 wks, and 3 months, and look at that, I'm just past the 3 wk mark -- I guess I'm questioning, is this 3 wk thing the reason for my worsening depression? Is it some substance(s) leaving my body that is crapping all over my mood? I'm not going to go back to smoking, even if I return to suicidal thoughts -- smoking is just slow suicide in its own right, but you also have to alienate anyone who objects to the smell, and it costs a blooming fortune that I can no longer afford in any case.

So, if the 3-wk thing is the major cause of my increasingly-negative outlook, how long do I have to endure it, before it begins to lift again? At this point, I might even consider just staying in bed for however long it lasts, because dealing with *anything* is growing more and more difficult.

I hope someone has some encouraging news about this.

Andria

 

[Bramble]

I've suffered my whole life with anxiety and depression, in greater or lesser degrees; occasionally severe enough to require medication, but usually not that severe, just enough to completely sour my entire outlook, lead me to drug and alcohol addiction (now recovering from that!), and cripple me completely for any sort of career or vocation. My last very severe bout was about 10 yrs ago, complicated by PTSD and peri-menopause. I took Effexor for about 3 yrs, until I lost my health insurance and was forced to stop taking it, because I could no longer afford it. Since then, I've muddled along, sometimes worse, sometimes better, but with no health insurance, I have no options for treatment even when it sometimes grows very severe.

On Feb 28, I enjoyed my first smoke-free day in 39 years, and I was over the moon about it, for probably 2 wks. In the last wk, however, I've noticed a gradual decrease in my ecstasy over quitting, and in the last several days, an extreme downturn in my whole outlook, about everything. I don't have any cravings for cigarettes, no thoughts like "if this doesn't work..." -- I'm absolutely determined that it WILL work, so I'm not self-sabotaging about the fact of having quit smoking; I'm still amazed and pleased about that, despite my growing emotional malaise.

I have heard that there are really significant times for a cigarette-quitter: 3 days, 3 wks, and 3 months, and look at that, I'm just past the 3 wk mark -- I guess I'm questioning, is this 3 wk thing the reason for my worsening depression? Is it some substance(s) leaving my body that is crapping all over my mood? I'm not going to go back to smoking, even if I return to suicidal thoughts -- smoking is just slow suicide in its own right, but you also have to alienate anyone who objects to the smell, and it costs a blooming fortune that I can no longer afford in any case.

So, if the 3-wk thing is the major cause of my increasingly-negative outlook, how long do I have to endure it, before it begins to lift again? At this point, I might even consider just staying in bed for however long it lasts, because dealing with *anything* is growing more and more difficult.

I hope someone has some encouraging news about this.

Andria

I increased my nicotine when that happened to me. I will likely stay at 18-24mg for a very long time.

 

[twgbonehead]

Zyban was "discovered" as a smoking-cessation aid because a study showed that many of the people on wellbutrin "happened" to quit smoking while taking wellbutrin.

Zyban is a much lower dose, though. (Hence, I suspect, the much lower quit rate shown with Zyban). In any case, Zyban wasn't for me, it really screwed with my head.

 

[KjAthena]

Interesting story that may shed some light....Here

 

[AndriaD]

I was afraid someone would say that, but it's absolutely not an option; even at 12mg, I get extremely nauseous after just a few hrs, and to me, *nausea* is a fate worse than death, nevermind vomiting -- really I'd rather just go on and die, than ever have to vomit again in my life. I stay at 8mg in the daytime, and at night reduce to 6mg, or I get such a rapid heartbeat I cannot fall asleep.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

I tried Wellbutrin just before I discovered Effexor; it didn't do much of anything for my depression, and it made my ankles swell, making me fear congestive heart failure, so I had to get off of it quickly. It did seem to allow me to postpone my after-meal smokes, however, for as much as 30 mins after eating (I was still firmly hooked on cigarettes then).

I really think the Effexor was so effective for me because it also treats generalized anxiety disorder, which I also suffer. But nothing medical is any kind of option, because of my lack of health insurance.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

My mom has a great many very serious health problems, which also, of course, affects her state of mind. She SWEARS by "retail therapy," so I just indulged in some: Kanger Mini ProTank 2, Boge 510 Cartomizers 5-Pack, eGo Short Cone, and clear Glass Drip Tip -- all that plus priority shipping was less than $30! Woohoo! So I think maybe I feel a *little* better. It probably won't ship till Monday, but with the priority shipping, I should get it Wednesday.

Also, Monday, I should get the 3-pk of T3S coil replacements I ordered last week, and that will be VERY helpful, as I have 2 T3S clearos and an ARO pyrex, and ONE working coil for the whole pack of 'em. That has been weighing on my mind very heavily, so I really hope this one coil can last till Monday.

Andria

 

[RoseB]

I tried Wellbutrin just before I discovered Effexor; it didn't do much of anything for my depression, and it made my ankles swell, making me fear congestive heart failure, so I had to get off of it quickly. It did seem to allow me to postpone my after-meal smokes, however, for as much as 30 mins after eating (I was still firmly hooked on cigarettes then).

I really think the Effexor was so effective for me because it also treats generalized anxiety disorder, which I also suffer. But nothing medical is any kind of option, because of my lack of health insurance.

Andria

Have you tried any supplements for your anxiety or depression? Calm is a magnesium based product sold in health food stores. It can be helpful for anxiety. Tobacco changes the pH in your body is well. I drank a lot of fresh squeezed lemons in the first few weeks. Just be sure to put the juice in cold water. Lemon juice is acidic until it hits your gut, then it has an alkaline effect. If you try it and it's not working after a week, maybe go the opposite and do a couple table spoons of apple cider vinegar a day, I am not a doc or anything remotely close to being one. Just into to natural healing These things don't do a lot of good if you end up in full crisis mode. If you feel really awful look for a sliding scale clinic in your area. You can get visits for pretty cheap.

 

[telsie]

I've never been a depressed person. Now I started smoking at a young age and was up to a pack a day by 13 or so. Whenever I'd quit without replacement of some sort, I'd get horribly depressed. Even when I was strictly vaping alone, the depression would rear it's ugly head once sending me back to analogs, which makes me realize it is the maoi's I need. I added snus to my vaping, and no more depression. I'm back to my crazy, happy self again which is great.

Has anyone else experienced this? I'm wondering if I was depressed as a kid (don't remember, but much before the age of 7 or 8 is pretty fuzzy at best) and have been self medicating all these years. Not that I want to get off the nic and maoi's, I'm perfectly happy with my little addictions and will not get rid of them for some big pharma solution that may cause suicidal ideation or worse. Just curious is all.

*raises hand* Me!

I went through a bout of depression after I quit smoking/started vaping. I'd read that depression was common after quitting smoking, so I tried to ride it out, thinking I'd start to feel better… soon. But the months ticked away and I didn't feel better. I finally talked to my doctor about it and he said I'd probably been benefitting from the MAOIs in cigarettes (self medicating by smoking, basically) and that the depression since quitting smoking might be temporary or might be here to stay. He prescribed an anti-depressant, but I really didn't want to get myself on an anti-depressant if it was possible the depression would clear on its own.

Before diving into a prescription solution, I decided to try snus. I figured if a lack of tobacco was making me depressed than, why not try treating the depression with tobacco? So I tried a snus and.... BAM… Relief! Within like 30 minutes of putting that first snus in my mouth, I felt well—like night and day different. It was really quite amazing.

I used snus occasionally for several months and then didn't need it anymore. I was fortunate that my depression, though long-lasting, was only temporary. My feeling is that if you need medication to be well, then use medication. But if something as simple and relatively safe as snus can do the job, it's the better choice.

 

[Stubby]

A little late to this party, but then this is a slow lane on the forum so hopefully not to late.

From my understanding, which admittedly is a long way from being an expert, MOAI's are a product of combustion and are not present in smokeless tobacco. What smokeless tobacco has that straight nicotine does not are the minor alkaloids. I believe they make up about 5% of the alkaloid content of tobacco (depending on what type of tobacco is used) with nicotine the other 95%. It is still unclear exactly what the minor alkaloids actually do. Some may act on their own, but one thing they certainly do is enhance the effect of nicotine.

Another interesting thing about the minor alkaloids is that they have a considerably longer half life then nicotine. I forget the exact amount but I believe it is over 8 hours, while nicotine is about 2 hours or less.

Not to toot my horn but I have been around the forum for about 5 years and in that time I have seen many people who have struggled giving up cigarettes with just vaping, and then just like the OP, added some snus to the mix and it becomes easy to lose the last of the cigarettes with no ill effects (the good Swedish snus is recommended over the american made, but even the american snus has it's merits). Depression disappears along with other issues that may have come up when the person gave up cigarettes. It may not have MOAI's but whatever it is it does the trick.

There is no reason to suffer or be miserable while giving up the smokes. I have to also mention that all forms of smokeless tobacco have the minor alkaloids but snus seems to be the most popular around here.