Too much Nicotine?

[mkbilbo]

Check Wizard Labs or High Desert Vapes for good prices on unflavored nicotine. The only issue buying from HDV is they only offer 60mg for DIY, I think Wizard has lower concentrations, and if you get stuck there as well, I know Mt. Baker has 6-36mg in fairly large bottles, but unfortunately they're a little expensive.

Yeah, HDV only does 60 and that's kinda high. I forget where you get into "risky" territory. I'm still a beginner in DIY so Ima stayin' down in the 12 to 24 range for now.

And their website says theirs is Wizard Labs anyway. And Wizard goes down to 12 (and up into very scary territory I just noticed!).

Wow, though, Wizard prices are good. I got a liter's worth for about the same price as MBV's 236ml bottles. Have to mix VG in to get my 50/50 but for that kinda savings, absolutely yes I'll mix it myownself!

 

[Kellycat]

Yeah, HDV only does 60 and that's kinda high. I forget where you get into "risky" territory. I'm still a beginner in DIY so Ima stayin' down in the 12 to 24 range for now.

And their website says theirs is Wizard Labs anyway. And Wizard goes down to 12 (and up into very scary territory I just noticed!).

Wow, though, Wizard prices are good. I got a liter's worth for about the same price as MBV's 236ml bottles. Have to mix VG in to get my 50/50 but for that kinda savings, absolutely yes I'll mix it myownself!

Yeah the only reason I really mentioned HDV was because Wizard was having site trouble over the weekend and I haven't checked to see if they were back yet, I assume they are based on your comments MBV does charge a lot for their nicotine, but if you want it in lower strengths for cutting liquids below the 12mg mark, they're about the only game in town besides buying nic and PG/VG from Wizard. Still probably works out cheaper buying the individual liquids though, you're right.

As far as risky territory, I wouldn't advise vaping anything over 48mg, and even that's high for a lot of folks. I can tolerate 36mg+ but only a few drags, then I'm like 'yeah I gotta do something lighter'. Definitely don't vape the straight 60mg, that just tastes horrible, not to mention the risk of a nicotine flood giving you a killer headache and nausea.

Oh, and yes, Wizard does sell 100mg for DIY, it's not designed to be vaped right out of the bottle, but for those who are worried about big gov't, storing several 100mg bottles is preferable to buying and storing ten times the amount of 12mg bottles, or similar. Plus you can always cut the nicotine level, it's a lot harder to raise it if you've bought only a low strength of juice.

 

[mkbilbo]

Yeah the only reason I really mentioned HDV was because Wizard was having site trouble over the weekend and I haven't checked to see if they were back yet, I assume they are based on your comments MBV does charge a lot for their nicotine, but if you want it in lower strengths for cutting liquids below the 12mg mark, they're about the only game in town besides buying nic and PG/VG from Wizard. Still probably works out cheaper buying the individual liquids though, you're right.

As far as risky territory, I wouldn't advise vaping anything over 48mg, and even that's high for a lot of folks. I can tolerate 36mg+ but only a few drags, then I'm like 'yeah I gotta do something lighter'. Definitely don't vape the straight 60mg, that just tastes horrible, not to mention the risk of a nicotine flood giving you a killer headache and nausea.

Oh, and yes, Wizard does sell 100mg for DIY, it's not designed to be vaped right out of the bottle, but for those who are worried about big gov't, storing several 100mg bottles is preferable to buying and storing ten times the amount of 12mg bottles, or similar. Plus you can always cut the nicotine level, it's a lot harder to raise it if you've bought only a low strength of juice.

Wizard's still having some bumps along the road after switching to their new host. Looks like a DNS propagation lag. That should clear up fairly quickly (better than that big EIG fiasco... Wizard bailed after that, can't blame 'em... my little site was out a day or so but I'm not running a business off it... well, yet).

Yeah, buying the individual stuff via Wizard is really cheap but the OP is new to the vape game so MBV is probably the better bet. I started my DIY adventure with them and being able to order up the PG/VG mix and nic level in the plain, makes things easy. Since Wizard has only 100% PG or 100% VG, ya gotta sit down and figure and do math and all. Since I like 50/50, it's pretty easy for me. I buy double the nic level I want in PG or VG then the same size of plain 0 nic VG or PG. Ta da.

And with nic levels, I was thinking more of I can't remember the point where you actually have to start worrying about skin contact. And me being a highly skilled klutz, I have a ways to go before I'd risk handling higher level stuff. I once managed to dump half a bottle of JC Domestic on the couch. And JC ain't cheap.

Couch smelled nice though.

And I'll worry about The End Of The World As We Know It after the FDA issues their proposed regs. We don't actually yet know how crazy they're going to get. If they issue in October as I've heard they might (they said April last time and that didn't happen), I'll see if it's time to go all "prepper".

 

[Kellycat]

And with nic levels, I was thinking more of I can't remember the point where you actually have to start worrying about skin contact. And me being a highly skilled klutz, I have a ways to go before I'd risk handling higher level stuff. I once managed to dump half a bottle of JC Domestic on the couch. And JC ain't cheap.

Couch smelled nice though.

And I'll worry about The End Of The World As We Know It after the FDA issues their proposed regs. We don't actually yet know how crazy they're going to get. If they issue in October as I've heard they might (they said April last time and that didn't happen), I'll see if it's time to go all "prepper".

I would say anything you wouldn't vape, is the same level you don't want on your skin. I personally will wash my hands if I come in contact with anything higher than 30mg, just to play it safe, but 60-100mg is when you need to immediately rinse off with cold water. Some are more tolerant, some less, but I don't know many people that don't get sick from having a few drops of 100mg on their skin for any length of time greater than a few minutes. Definitely in the OP's best interest to purchase a less-concentrated mix and use it as-is, just to be safe. Besides, if they're cutting a nic level already, why add steps by having to dilute 100mg with PG/VG..may as well just add the plain PG or whatever right to their liquid at that point.

I'm not worried about the 'end of the world' scenarios everyone goes on about, just pointing out that's another reason to purchase high-nic solutions. Myself, I can be happy with nic-free at this point, as long as I've got something in my mouth producing vapor, the nicotine is just a bonus.

 

[AnMvapshop]

It is very possible to get those feelings when you get too much nicotine. Maybe try a lower nic strength.

 

[Grimwald]

I would also vote for too much nic. I was a VERY heavy 40 year smoker. I started at 24mg and that worked for about 2 months. Then I began to have problems...anxiety, sleeplessness, headaches, dizziness...general headless chicken symptoms.

I also found that these problems were worse at certain times of day...namely at about 10 am and early afternoon. These were also the times that I would have vaped heavily, had several cups of coffee, and not eaten much (low blood sugar???). So I cut my nic down in steps over a few weeks, I cut out caffeine, and began to eat more often (not sugar but healthy snacks). Those are the things that helped me.

 

[taylorbobaylor]

I would recommend seeing a doctor and lowering your nic. Once you start vaping, you might notice you vape more often than you would smoke so I would try lowering your nic level.

 

[Preluder77]

We are definitely vaping more than smoking already and its been a week, it's just so delicious. And all this DIY talk, I am for for sure going that route. I already put some stuff on order to get me started and help me to adjust my own nic levels till I find the sweet spot the wife and I need. We rolled our own and used light tobacco with full strength tubes so I think 18mg is going to be too much for us. We might even end up around 6mg so we can hit it more often.

 

[BigBen2k]

Nic level is so tricky. I'm 1 1/2 month in, used to smoke almost a pack a day (PAD) of "ultra lights", and now I'm vaping 2 mL of 12 mg/mL of e-liquid (I started with 6 mg/mL, which was not enough, and left me with the jitters) per day. Given that nicotine absorption is 10 to 40% while vaping (avg 25%), I'm vaping almost exactly as much as I was smoking. Your results will vary.

Be open to different nic levels. I advise to be ready to change it up, any time, when starting. Also, you ought to be open to the idea of changing nic levels several times per day (that's my next exploration), i.e. switching between two different strengths throughout a day.

It takes a while to find the right balance, but it's worth it.

For me:
A pack of "ultra lights" per day = 2 ml @ 12 mg/mL per day

 

[Caridwen]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/211345-new-users-nicotine-strength-questions.html

 

[BigBen2k]

Spot on as usual, Caridwen!

I'm now having to back off from 12mg/mL, because on occasion, it's too much. I now switch between 6 and 12, and I've got a bottle of 9 ready to go, so I can retire that 12, permanently.

I'm going to try 9 or 12 after meals, but stick to 6 otherwise, especially in the evening; 12 keeps me up at night.

Everyone is different.

 

[mkbilbo]

I would say anything you wouldn't vape, is the same level you don't want on your skin. I personally will wash my hands if I come in contact with anything higher than 30mg, just to play it safe, but 60-100mg is when you need to immediately rinse off with cold water. Some are more tolerant, some less, but I don't know many people that don't get sick from having a few drops of 100mg on their skin for any length of time greater than a few minutes.

Yeah I'm not terrified of Instant! Death! I just know me. I spill stuff and make messes. I want to be more comfortable with working with the stuff before jumping to anything more... I dunno... advanced?

Definitely in the OP's best interest to purchase a less-concentrated mix and use it as-is, just to be safe. Besides, if they're cutting a nic level already, why add steps by having to dilute 100mg with PG/VG..may as well just add the plain PG or whatever right to their liquid at that point.

True, true. Also, as I recall, they're just getting started in vaping and I'm big on not throwing new people into the deep end of the pool right off. It's the technical writer in me.

And the MBV version of DIY is pretty easy. Basic mixes are pretty straightforward and simple. Good... starter kit?

I'm not worried about the 'end of the world' scenarios everyone goes on about, just pointing out that's another reason to purchase high-nic solutions. Myself, I can be happy with nic-free at this point, as long as I've got something in my mouth producing vapor, the nicotine is just a bonus.

I'm not sure that's at all true for myself. My ease of transition to vaping is probably because of the nic. I remember major, major, horrific withdrawals from other times trying to quit. The only thing that came close to working was the gum. Which also supplied nicotine. Think I quit for some months with it actually.

I may not be able to quit nicotine. Or at least not easily.

And I'm more than a little hacked the FDA is even bothering. How 'bout they first take a look at that Chantix? You know, the one that has a suicide rate? Can't think of any cases of suicide caused by vaping. Not off hand at least. Mebbe the one that has people blowing their brains out is the one that needs some regulating?

Just a thought.

Shrug?

 

[mkbilbo]

We are definitely vaping more than smoking already and its been a week, it's just so delicious. And all this DIY talk, I am for for sure going that route.

I do like having better control over the flavors and the nic level. And as I gain experience with it (slowly lately, not much time to play with DIY anything right now), I'm finding ways to save more money.

There is a DIY Liquid section here. But a lot of the conversation there went right over my head at first. Starting to make way more sense as I play with things myself. But I'm still not good at "recipes". Basic stuff, sure. The more complex mixes? I make a mess of 'em.

Lots of good info over there though. Worth lurking if you're interested in DIY...

 

[BigBen2k]

I thought I'd bring up another fact I came across recently, thanks to these forums, that might explain what's going on here. I'll quote the post, to give this individual proper credit:

Also, every single one of us needs to understand the difference between cigarette addiction and nicotine addiction. I say this with humility, not trying to be arrogant.

The two are NOT the same. Cigarettes are extremely addictive because of nic + MAOI's. Nicotine by itself is not as addictive. If it was, how are so many 10-50 year smokers stepping down to 0 nic juice? Nicotine by itself is like a caffeine addiction. Yes, some people are very addicted to caffeine, but they sure as hell don't need a cup of coffee every 15 min all day long. It's also an addiction that CAN be stopped. Cigarettes...yeah...we know how easy those are to quit.

All of us have to understand the difference, so we can also explain to other people that there is a difference. Nicotine is not crack ......., nicotine + MAOI's is.

"BACKGROUND: Long-lasting effects of withdrawal from nicotine are hypothesized to contribute to relapse and persistence of tobacco habits, and significant evidence supports a role of monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOI) contained in cigarette smoke as potent modulators of the rewarding effects of tobacco.

RESULTS: In nicotine-infused rats, mecamylamine induced a place aversion that lasted 6 weeks. When nicotine-infused rats were also treated with a MAOI, mecamylamine-induced conditioned place aversion persisted for at least 8 months of abstinence. The MAOI treatment slightly decreased ratings of somatic signs induced by mecamylamine administration but had no effect on the threshold or the magnitude of mecamylamine-induced conditioned place aversion."

I can't say I understand every part of the results, but I do understand:
Nicotine= 6 weeks
Nicotine+MAOI= 8 months

There is a difference.

In short, you're effectively switching from a "nicotine+maoi" addiction, to "just nicotine", and to compensate for the withdrawal effect, you use a bit more nicotine than usual, for the duration of this transition.

Please keep us updated.

 

[Falco]

I don't like the idea of vaping over the course of a day a lethal amount of nic (were I to take it in all at once) so for this reason I've decided to order juice with no more than 8ml of nic.

 

[Vapo Marx]

I think tapering down nicotine is a wise course of action if no other reason than this: folks who care to speculate on these things seem to agree that the most likely Doomsday Scenario facing the vaping community is that nicotine will become difficult to obtain and expensive. If you start tapering down your nicotine intake now, you'll be ahead of the game if/when The Man brings the hammer down. This seems a more sensible way to prepare for the worst than to stockpile gallons of liquid nic like some survivalist holed up in a bunker (IMO).

 

[auntiem]

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread thus far....It helped me so much! I am only at 2 months and a day but my first 2 days I was very nauseous. I just kept vaping, not knowing when to stop. I started on the third day, with 10 to 14 puffs which would be equal to one cigarette for me. Then I would stop, until I needed another. Went into the garage each time (part of my old ritual), Counted and stopped. I did that for about 3 weeks. The nauteous went away on the third day. I must have had too much nicotine?
I couldn't get to sleep at night, so this thread has really helped me, figure that one out. Thank You so much!!

 

[auntiem]

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread thus far....It helped me so much!

 

[Valhalla17]

Its hard to tell and I cant speak for her, but my first week of vaping I was having withdrawals using 18 mg. I went from 2 packs a day to 3-4 cigs a day overnight. I had most of those symptoms that you say she had, when it got bad I'd smoke a cigarette and it would subside. Eventually, I got used to getting less nicotine after a week, or so, and didnt need the cigarettes. This may not apply to your case but it just a thought.