True or False: Regulated box mods don't need high discharge batteries when sub ohming

[IJLimagery]

True or False: Regulated box mods don't need high discharge batteries when sub ohming

Hey y'all,

I was at my local B&M today and was told that now that I have a regulated box mod ( a humble Dovpo E-Mech ), I don't need to worry about buying high drain batteries

Something about the chip takes care of the high drain issue.

If so, it would mean I can buy high capacity batteries and be TOTALLY sure, one pair would last me the whole day.

Something like these Panasonic 3400 Mah bad boys : https://www.fasttech.com/p/1141100

I bought the box to stop having to carry around extra 18650's for my mech mod. My collection includes a k-100 mech with an IGO-W and a Private V2 mech with a plume veil clone. I run both at around .5 ohms

Thanks!

 

[Miata GT]

IMO vaping of any kind always = high drain batteries, regulated or not (especially not).

 

[HecticEnergy]

I'm not sure if there are IMRs that aren't high drain... but everything I've read said use high drain for vaping... I'm no electronics wiz or chemist so I don't know all the science behind it, just familiar with the rules

 

[Trailz]

The battery should have a discharge rating = to or greater than the input current rating of the device.

 

[KGB7]

Its ALWAYS better to have high drain batteries that have a constant of at least 20A, and are not regulated.

For that price, you can get a pair of better batteries. 18650 Samsung INR18650-25R 2500mAh High Discharge Flat Top - Batteries - Batteries, Chargers, and PowerPax Carriers



Dont screw around with Panasonic batteries.

 

[dragonsdeath]

You still need good high drain batteries. It's going to depend on the device as to how high of amp discharge you'll need, but for example Pioneer4you recommends min 30a batteries for the Ipv3.

 

[crxess]

OP, Your Question is not definitive.
.001ohm is sub ohm
.9ohm is sub ohm

No you do not need Hi Drain to Vape at .8ohm-.9ohm. a Panasonic CGR18650CH will work perfectly
Yes you need Hi Drain to Vape at low sub ohm levels.

The Regulated Mod gets That Magic Power from The Battery. Some for instances:
Cheap battery - Repeated Fast depletion damaging prematurely
Cheap battery - Dying every 1/2 to 2 hours
Protected Cheap Battery - Falling below Battery spec and permanently tripping the safety circuit.

WHY take the gamble when for a few dollars more you will be set.

 

[HMav]

The same rules apply to regulated mods as to mech mods when it comes to low ohm vaping. Where regulated mods shine is their ability to boost battery voltage, delivering the same power to the coils but using less current by using a higher voltage into a higher ohm coil.

 

[novamatt]

Regulated mods boost the battery voltage by pulling more current (amps) from the battery. The way they do it, though, the resistance of your atomizer doesn't make any difference as far as battery strain. However, your power settings makes a big difference. For any regulated mod that boosts voltage, you definitely need high drain batteries.

Your dovpo doesn't boost the voltage. Instead, it lowers it from an input anywhere between 6.4 and 8.2 volts (that's why you have 2 batteries). At 30 watts, you're pulling a max of about 5 amps from the batteries, so anything that will do 7 or 8 amps comfortably should be fine. However, you still need to make sure you're using "safer chemistry" or IMR batteries in case something goes wrong. The Panasonics you linked to are 6.8 amp batteries, but they're still the wrong chemistry. If your chip has a problem and the batteries fail, there's still fire involved.

And honestly, you'll probably get better performance out of the usual high drain batteries everyone else uses. If they can do 20 amps, then they're not even breaking a sweat when it comes to 5, which means they'll last a lot longer and you won't have to buy new ones as often. And 2 of them in that mod will last for days between charges.

 

[IJLimagery]

the panasonic's are actually $5 MORE per pair. the reason would be for more capacity. For some reason on a .5 ohm build on my Dovpo, by the end of my 8 hour work shift, my battery life is still running pretty low.

I was just excited to hear from my local B&M that I could get non high drain batteries. and thought I would ask the forum members. I will try a .7 - .8 build and see how it works out.

do you have any recommendations where to find a post about building coils? I obviously still need to learn more about it. more wraps = higher resistance? thicker wire = lower resistance? larger diameter coils = ??

and how that all relates to battery life?

 

[crxess]

I have a feeling you will find your Mod is the problem.
Sounds like it has poor chip efficiency. More popular Mods currently are above 90% but some lesser Mods are barely 80% efficiency. This leads to battery power waste.

You need to look at a few Battery charts. Advertized Mah is at peak battery efficiency, not under high load. The Mah drops drasticly as demand increases. The lower the peak operating rating the faster it will drain.

 

[HecticEnergy]

Learn ohms law: VIR:
V= I*R
V is voltage, I is Current (measured in Ampers) and R is resistance.
Usually your voltage is known as is your resistance so it becomes V/R = I
Nominal charge for the battery we use is 3.7v, but it's a bit more complicated than that for regulated devices.

As far as Wire/Coils go - resistance is measured in the length of the wire. More wraps uses more wire.
Thicker wire has lower resistance than an equal length thinner wire - which makes sense as there is more of a conduit for the electricity to travel, so less friction IE less resistance.

That should get you started.. now go learn more
Steam-engine.org is a popular site for coil PLANNING. you will need an ohm checker to know what your actual resistance is.

 

[93gc40]

base your battery choices on the power being applied to the coil.... NOT the circuitry of the mod... Yes technically a regulated mod can use a lesser battery than a Mech....... BUT the safety of having a battery that can handle the power draw of the coil, in the case of a circuitry failure, ie the regulator stop regulating.

 

[WattWick]

You still need to know the current draw from your battery. There is no magic involved in regulated mods. Only a different way of delivering power that makes no difference whatsoever to the source of power; i.e the battery.

 

[Smann245]

The battery should have a discharge rating = to or greater than the input current rating of the device.

This is the exact right answer. Notice it's the devices max INPUT current rating. Max output current is irrelevant with regards to what current is drawn from the battery when dc-dc converters are involved. The simple equations that apply to mechs can't be applied the same way across a converter. It is a common misconception.

 

[UncleChuck]

Where regulated mods shine is their ability to boost battery voltage, delivering the same power to the coils but using less current by using a higher voltage into a higher ohm coil.

At the same power level a regulated device will actually draw more current from the battery than a Mech does. How much more current depends on the efficiency of the chip, but even ignoring that it's all about the power level.

The internal battery doesn't go anywhere above 4.2v, so if you have a regulated device set to 50w, the only way to get 50W from a 4.2v source is to apply load ~.35 omh and as the battery level depletes the resistance of the load will get even smaller to account for the drop in voltage, meaning an even higher current draw. With a battery run down to 3.8v a regulated device set to 50w will have to put a load on the battery around .28 ohms. (assuming 100% efficiency)

 

[InfinityzeN]

W=V*A.
No matter what, the battery must support enough amps that when running down to the lowest volts your mod will run it to meet the required wattage.

If you have a 60w single battery device, then you need a battery that can provide 60w of power through its full usable range after sag and controller efficiency. Efficiency for most decent mods is 90~95%. You need a battery that can put out ~20a to be able to support that 60w through most of its charge range and towards the end of its charge it will most likely have to pull over 20a to provide 60w after sag and efficiency loss. If you can go up one step to a 25a battery or better then you will be fine even towards the end of the batteries charge.

The way I quick calculate it is to figure lowest point will be 3v after efficiency and sag. So divide the maximum wattage by number of batteries and then by 3. That is the lowest amp draw batteries I would use in a mod. If you have an IPV3 that is 150w with two batteries, you want 25a batteries minimum.
10a battery is good for 30w @
20a battery is good for 60w @
25a battery is good for 75w @
30a battery is good for 90w @

Of course this is all assuming you fire the device at max power until it tells you the batteries are at 0% charge. If you never fire the device at max power and/or recharge the batteries before they go below 50% then you can get away with maybe a step down.


The single most important thing though is to always buy high quality batteries from a trusted source. Low quality or fake batteries have the potential for disaster.

 

[Ablonz]

A lot of good info here. Save your money and get the good ones. Learn from my mistake, I spent 47$ on 4 batteries that I will never use... Panasonic 3400 mah X 4 I need to sell them now If I even can..... Those exact one that you have listed. Go figure...

 

[Rickajho]

Does make me wonder: If the shop was saying you don't need high drain batteries in a Dovpo - because apparently some magic is going to happen that can produce all the amps you will even need from a low amp output battery, any battery - just what were they suggesting is acceptable to stick in there? Could be educational - yet frightening.

 

[InfinityzeN]

Just to add a bit more. We will take a Sony VTC5 as the example, though the numbers will be basicly the same with a VTC4 (just not as much capacity). So a fully charged VTC5 puts out ~4.2v (4.15~4.25v). If the battery has no sag and the mod has 100% efficiency then you could pull a max of ~126w from the battery when it had a fresh full charge. At the very end of its usable range is 3.2v. Again with no sag and 100% efficiency you could pull a max of ~96w from the battery.

Pretty good but this will never happen in real life since all batteries have voltage sag under high amp draw and no mod is 100% efficient. Mod max input amps are 30 for this example.


Sony VTC5 with 30a draw has a sag of ~0.5v at full charge and the mod has a 95% efficiency. At full charge you are looking at ~105.5w and at the very end of its range (~2500mAh) you are looking at ~81w (the sag is actually only about 0.35v at the end of its capacity and 30amp draw).

How about a LG 18650HE2? I'll give it at 25a and 30a (beyond rated, but so you can directly compare to the VTC5 above).
LG HE2 with a 25a draw has a sag of ~0.6v at full charge and mod has a 95% efficincy. At full charge you are looking at ~85.5w and at the very end of its range (~2200mAh, it drops through the floor past this) you are looking at ~65w (sag is about 0.45v at the end of its capacity and 25a draw).

LG HE2 witha 30a draw has a sag of ~0.8v at full charge and mod has 95% efficincy. At full charge you are looking at ~97w and at the very end of its range (~2200mAh, it drops through the floor past this) you are looking at ~78.4w (sag is about 0.5v at the end of its capacity and 30a draw).

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The LG HE2 is a nice battery, but as you can see by the above it is below the VTC5. In real use it is even worse though since the VTC5 has a fairly smooth drop over its capacity, very tight consistant sag, and the low numbers of its range above are at about 2500mAh. The LG HE2 has a steaper drop off (much steaper at the begining and end), experiences more sag at lower amp draw, and the low numbers of its range above were taken at 2200mAh. Why did I stop them at 2500mAh and 2200mAh? Because past that they are going into damage the cell over discharge.

If I had posted results at about the middle of their range (say 1200mAh) and the Sony VTC5 at 2400mAh for its final numbers the differences would be even bigger.

-

So this is comparing two actual good batteries (well, the VTC is a great battery). Crap batteries will have way more sag at higher amp draw, have far less of their capacity actually usable without over discharging the battery, run much hotter, and have much higher risk of something nasty happening.

Even at low max input amp limits, the higher draw rated batteries are a better choice. They will have less sag, run at a lower temp, have better battery life (less sag means less amps required to met a given wattage requirement), and normally have a longer useful lifespan before you have to buy a replacement.

(BTW if anyone is wondering, the Samsung INR18650-25R is a touch better than the LG HE2 in sag and usable capacity before)