Try and change my mind...
- Thread starter Shawn Hoefer
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Actually I believe the tax man made/makes a lot more money off of them then all others combined.
I would grant MORE leniency to the dealer on the street personally, but that's because said dealer probably has to be a more savvy businessman, is taking on more risk, and is not being taxed to death. Instead of taxation (to the consumer) there is more risk.
I'm not saying it's an exact analogy but there certainly is an analogy to be made. Both are selling products that are bad for your health, that are "cut" with God only knows what, and at least the dealer is out there providing products people want, in fact I would go even further and say harm reduction is applicable to all addictive substances, not just tobacco.
Just because something is illegal does not mean it won't occur, in fact I would hazard a guess that MANY current smokers started under 18 and hence illegally, etc.
So I don't see why I should have to hate the dealer on the corner, but I'd prefer it if said product were obtainable via legal means and etc. I don't personally hate the end corner dealer, who is most likely NOT making a lot of money, may be addicted to the product themselves, and has about the SAME likelihood of becoming a "high up" drug dealer than I do of becoming a basketball star and when it all comes down to it is probably making less than working for McDonalds, and with a far higher probability of being shot. I got that from that book from the statistician/researcher who actually wrote an interesting book on statistics. I wish I could remember the name of it.
I have no reason to hate said dealer on the corner, he's probably enjoying a life far worse than my own.
Anna
I'm not saying it's an exact analogy but there certainly is an analogy to be made. Both are selling products that are bad for your health, that are "cut" with God only knows what, and at least the dealer is out there providing products people want, in fact I would go even further and say harm reduction is applicable to all addictive substances, not just tobacco.
Just because something is illegal does not mean it won't occur, in fact I would hazard a guess that MANY current smokers started under 18 and hence illegally, etc.
So I don't see why I should have to hate the dealer on the corner, but I'd prefer it if said product were obtainable via legal means and etc. I don't personally hate the end corner dealer, who is most likely NOT making a lot of money, may be addicted to the product themselves, and has about the SAME likelihood of becoming a "high up" drug dealer than I do of becoming a basketball star and when it all comes down to it is probably making less than working for McDonalds, and with a far higher probability of being shot. I got that from that book from the statistician/researcher who actually wrote an interesting book on statistics. I wish I could remember the name of it.
I have no reason to hate said dealer on the corner, he's probably enjoying a life far worse than my own.
Anna
The movie from the 50s is better than the remakes!
I did my 1st build yesterday on a Galaxies RDTA. Although the air flow can be restricted, it lacks the resistance to air flow that you get with draw activation. I like the resistance from draw activation since it reminds me of the draw from a cigarette. With a RDTA, the draw is more like inhaling through a straw rather than through a cigarette.
Although a RDTA is quite nice and easy to rebuild on (not as difficult as trying to rebuild on a tiny pod!), I do miss the draw activation.
I did my 1st build yesterday on a Galaxies RDTA. Although the air flow can be restricted, it lacks the resistance to air flow that you get with draw activation. I like the resistance from draw activation since it reminds me of the draw from a cigarette. With a RDTA, the draw is more like inhaling through a straw rather than through a cigarette.
Although a RDTA is quite nice and easy to rebuild on (not as difficult as trying to rebuild on a tiny pod!), I do miss the draw activation.
Well...actually tail...100% YES...
The h*roin dealer at the street corner doesn't force his customers to buy his wares any more than Walgreen's forced me to buy my packs of cigarettes...
(I'm guessing that you are NOT a Libertarian!!??!!)
..
Not libertarian enough to pretend that a ...... addict has a "free choice" whether to buy his stuff or not.
There's a spectrum of "addicts". I remember in the early 2000's some pharmacies stopped stocking oxycodone because they didn't want to get robbed. Known "addicts" who became clean due to jail time. As soon as they got out they immediately sought out their previous life style. They're junkies. There are times they have no choice but withdrawal for various reasons. But withdrawal does not stop the cycle or the attraction to the life style. I keep hearing reports that pharma was peddling opiates to doctors, duping the doctors, as a non (physically) addictive pain medication. What? I knew better, but doctors didn't? Sounds like hs to me. Unfortunately, I like to smoke, thought I'd never quit. Actually found I like vaping better. Wonder the impact if smoking opium was legal. The issue is complex. I just can't blame dealers.
Well my thoughts are that saying an addict "can't help it," or "did or didn't choose it" is sort of more complicated than one might think. It really doesn't help that many "synthetic opiates" were put on the market with claims of ZERO addiction potential when that was not in fact true.
Many, many (surprisingly many) chronic pain patients end up in Methadone or other maintenance programs, you'd be shocked at the numbers honestly. They sort of "max out" their opiate tolerance and get funneled there.
As far as addiction being a choice, a lifestyle choice or anything else, well, sometimes that really depends on genetics and/or environment I mean a baby born addicted already has a brain "primed" for whatever substance so to speak. This in no way implies that every substance-addicted baby becomes addicted in later life, that is also not true.
However saying an addict has "ho choices" to stop is also arguably not true. I think the multitude of folks who do halt an addiction show this statement to be somewhat false. You may well have to suffer a certain amount of misery first, but it is arguably and fully 100% possible. Plenty of addicts die addicted before they can get there, though.
This is why harm reduction works actually, though, I think. If you are getting your (whatever insert substance) off the street, where quality control is poor, it may be cut with horrible things, it's not inexpensive, and an addict is forced to do more and more illegal things to obtain their substance, well, there isn't a lot of time or energy left in order to sort of focus on "what do I want my life to be besides obtaining "substance X." When harm reduction programs are combined with other supportive treatment well, an addict stands a much better chance of having some time to think about changing things, a lot of the health risks are reduced and being told that harm reduction or abstinence is even an option, well, that can be useful also. Absolutely every country that has adopted harm reduction and legalization has found this statistic to be true.
But one can also be amazed concerning that "precipitating event" that causes abstinence to happen, it can be really not if/when you'd expect..
I've seen prison detoxes and they make my toes curl because it's so incredibly inhumane. It kind o makes me want to use and I've been sober a long, long time. It's not an experience that tends to make a person go, "Wow, substances are really ruining my life I should use this opportunity to QUIT to be frank." Not to say it doesn't happen but were I to be detoxing in prison off (insert whatever substance) well, my thoughts would likely turn to "What thing am I going to do first once I get out of here."
But I do think it's important to not "cheapen" the value of someone deciding to stop abusing a whatever substance, including tobacco, it happens every day. I've used and halted a few things in my day and they say your last addiction is your hardest, well some folks say that, and I've got to give tobacco the win on that one. It was the one thing I KNEW I could never give up.
It's nice to be wrong.
Anna
Many, many (surprisingly many) chronic pain patients end up in Methadone or other maintenance programs, you'd be shocked at the numbers honestly. They sort of "max out" their opiate tolerance and get funneled there.
As far as addiction being a choice, a lifestyle choice or anything else, well, sometimes that really depends on genetics and/or environment I mean a baby born addicted already has a brain "primed" for whatever substance so to speak. This in no way implies that every substance-addicted baby becomes addicted in later life, that is also not true.
However saying an addict has "ho choices" to stop is also arguably not true. I think the multitude of folks who do halt an addiction show this statement to be somewhat false. You may well have to suffer a certain amount of misery first, but it is arguably and fully 100% possible. Plenty of addicts die addicted before they can get there, though.
This is why harm reduction works actually, though, I think. If you are getting your (whatever insert substance) off the street, where quality control is poor, it may be cut with horrible things, it's not inexpensive, and an addict is forced to do more and more illegal things to obtain their substance, well, there isn't a lot of time or energy left in order to sort of focus on "what do I want my life to be besides obtaining "substance X." When harm reduction programs are combined with other supportive treatment well, an addict stands a much better chance of having some time to think about changing things, a lot of the health risks are reduced and being told that harm reduction or abstinence is even an option, well, that can be useful also. Absolutely every country that has adopted harm reduction and legalization has found this statistic to be true.
But one can also be amazed concerning that "precipitating event" that causes abstinence to happen, it can be really not if/when you'd expect..
I've seen prison detoxes and they make my toes curl because it's so incredibly inhumane. It kind o makes me want to use and I've been sober a long, long time. It's not an experience that tends to make a person go, "Wow, substances are really ruining my life I should use this opportunity to QUIT to be frank." Not to say it doesn't happen but were I to be detoxing in prison off (insert whatever substance) well, my thoughts would likely turn to "What thing am I going to do first once I get out of here."
But I do think it's important to not "cheapen" the value of someone deciding to stop abusing a whatever substance, including tobacco, it happens every day. I've used and halted a few things in my day and they say your last addiction is your hardest, well some folks say that, and I've got to give tobacco the win on that one. It was the one thing I KNEW I could never give up.
It's nice to be wrong.
Anna
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