Trying to understand DNA250 55amp max output

[Vesh]

obviously its split between batteries... why would dna create a board that would intentionally draw 60 amps from each battery when there is no available battery on the market that can supply the current?

kinda like creating a car to do 500mph when there are no roads capable of handling the car

yes but now it doesn't matter as i've been told by 2 people it's only 28 amps maximum it can draw on input and that's all that matters, but now i need a definitive on whether that 28 is split or shared, to know whether i can use 30Q's for big capacity. I've never heard of this before.. doesn't this change things for most regulated mods then? They might be using less amps then we thought? or is this special to dna? (the input thing)

 

[Verb]

yes but now it doesn't matter as i've been told by 2 people it's only 28 amps maximum it can draw on input and that's all that matters, but now i need a definitive on whether that 28 is split or shared, to know whether i can use 30Q's for big capacity. I've never heard of this before.. doesn't this change things for most regulated mods then? They might be using less amps then we thought? or is this special to DNA? (the input thing)

It's not split or shared as in a parallel battery configuration, it made up for with voltage. The current*voltage is the same on both sides of the chip (actually a little less on the atomizer side due to loss in conversion). If two batteries are at 4V each, 8V out of the series pair, and you are using a .2 ohm build, the current on each side of the chip will depend on the power setting. If set to 40W, current=power/voltage=40/8=5A draw. On the atomizer side (just of interest and not needed for battery safety), current=SQRT(power/resistance)=SQRT(40/.2)=14.1A (the 8V is converted to 2.8V). Set to 80W, battery-side is 8V at 10A and the atty-side gets 4V at 20A. If the same 80W is set when the batteries are low, around 3V-3.2V, the battery-side would have 6V at 13.3A and the atty would see 4V at 20A.

 

[KenD]

how can it be 28 amps per cell when the max amps is 60 at peak? are you telling me the input amps exceeds the output amps then?

otherwise i am totally lost.

I just wanted to say, i greatly appreciate all the replies and attempt to help me in this situation, i really do, but I just don't understand it properly.

maybe i will try in a laymans way: should 25R's be safe in it or you think that's too risky? Would a 25R blow up if it pulsed to 28? I mean that would be really in the rarest situation as my normal vaping is tootling, so it might be a rare pulse of cloud chasing.

I have three vtc5a's in it, but i'd rather have them in my 100 watt single battery mods where i feel they are much safer than a 25R.

I've also ordered some HB6's but they are only 1500 mah, and who even knows if they are genuine.

Yes, the input amps can exceed the output amps (or vice versa). The input and output are separated by the regulating chip.

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[KenD]

Why be condescending? I have read the spec sheet multiple times.. did you read the part where I said I didn't understand how this all works, and am simply trying to? Your explanation helped a lot until the last line.

The spec sheet just says input current is 28 amps, but it does not say if that is total or split amongst the batteries.

And if it's total, which means 9.3 amp per battery, that changes mooch's entire conversion calculator, as suddenly,it doesn't really matter if what's being asked of the batteries only happens at input (which i didn't know until this topic, i just presumed it would happen at output when you pressed the button).

Where does the spec sheet say, in clear terms, that the dna250 can ask up to 28 amps per battery? and why doesn't it make that more clear, or say "load split" or "maximum per battery".. it also says typical is 9. I presume that's just what they consider to be average use for most people.

So if it's 28 per battery, that means it can take up to 84 input, but maximum it will output by bucking is 60..

if it means 28 split, that's all it asks for the batteries is up to 9.33 amps each, then it's impressive chip can output up to 60

if the latter, it means i can safely use even samsung 30Q's in there, for maximum run time.

Not one person has recommended which batteries are safe in the dna 250 yet.. which was kinda the whole point of my topic.. and yes i've read the specs 100 times

The chip will take 28 amps from the batteries, but the batteries are in series so that's 28 amps per battery. Basically, the batteries are a three-cell pack and treated as a single 11.1v (nominal) battery.

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[Flavored]

yes but now it doesn't matter as i've been told by 2 people it's only 28 amps maximum it can draw on input and that's all that matters, but now i need a definitive on whether that 28 is split or shared, to know whether i can use 30Q's for big capacity. I've never heard of this before.. doesn't this change things for most regulated mods then? They might be using less amps then we thought? or is this special to DNA? (the input thing)

Vesh,
The 28 amps are not split, each of your 18650 cells will see it since they are in series. Power/watts are conserved from input to output, meaning power in = power out.
The thing you are overlooking is the DNA 250 (and the predecessor 200) expected that LIPO's would be used primarily as the power source, and those have better continuous and instantaneous current capacities. 18650's are OK, but they'll need to be high quality if you're going to push the mod hard. I don't vape up into the 100's W, but if I were going to use 18650's to do it, I'd limit myself to about 65-70W per battery.

 

[Vesh]

Ok.. thank you, i will take your word for it Flavored.. That means i'll keep the vtc5a's in there. they are in no danger whatsoever pulsing at 28 Amps.. Mooch has their max vaping amps at 30 and they can do 25 continuous all day, button held down as long as you like to use 28 would have to be very rare, i only do high wattage puffs maybe 5 puffs a week, no joke.
Just for fun.
I just wanted it to be safe.
But vtc5a's it is. If i only ever stuck to the cleito 120 at 100 w, the 20R's would be safe at 33 watts each. No issue, but i just want that buffer there, just in case.

 

[Vesh]

This topic has definitely brought up some fascinating stuff (IMO) about regulated mods in general.. It has opened my eyes in ways i never knew..

Now I am really going to have my work cut out for me choosing batteries for each mod..
basically, just to get this straight, EVERY regulated mod taps the batteries at the input stage, is this correct?

And therefore, it doesn't matter if it's even a 1000 watt mod, it only matters what max input amps are, right?
(and therefore, obviously it can't do those watts at certain battery voltages anyway, depending on whatever it's hard amp limit is).

Do most mods even HAVE the input amps listed? I have never seen it before.. Is there a way to find out this info?

 

[Flavored]

This topic has definitely brought up some fascinating stuff (IMO) about regulated mods in general.. It has opened my eyes in ways i never knew..

Now I am really going to have my work cut out for me choosing batteries for each mod..
basically, just to get this straight, EVERY regulated mod taps the batteries at the input stage, is this correct?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "taps the batteries at the input stage," but generally if you set the mod for 150W, it'll get those 150W (plus a little for inefficiency) from the batteries.

And therefore, it doesn't matter if it's even a 1000 watt mod, it only matters what max input amps are, right?
(and therefore, obviously it can't do those watts at certain battery voltages anyway, depending on whatever it's hard amp limit is).

What will matter is either what the batteries can safely do vs what the chip/mod can safely do. Both of them will have a rating, lowest one wins.

Do most mods even HAVE the input amps listed? I have never seen it before.. Is there a way to find out this info?

You're only seeing it because you know it is a DNA250 board and your manufacturer passed it along to be sure you selected batteries that were capable of powering the mod at high outputs. That is common for high power mods with removable batteries. If it had a built in battery, it is not likely you'd have seen that spec sheet unless you researched and found it.

 

[beckdg]

By the way, I used Mooch's regulated mod calculator.. the DNA 250 minimum voltage is 9 volts, so 3 volts per battery..
You divide the 250 / 3 = 83.3
And then the 83.3 / 3 (for the 3 volts).
= 27.8

So by my calculations, no matter what the answer to above is, the absolute maximum a dna 250 can draw from each cell is 27.8 amps... which would mean vtc5a's are safe at it at any setting it can do, ya?

If mooch drops in would be marvellous!

9 volts means series.

If that's the case they'll all see the same amperage.

The amperage you calculated would apply around cutoff voltage.

So a good 25 to 30 or better amp set of cells would be best.

Unless you never vape at full throttle.

I believe output AMPS would be the stat you're asking about.

They don't concern the battery at all.

To get 250 watts at 55 amps, the device would be regulating the output to 4.545 volts.

The battery would be supplying at least 3v per cell for a total of at least 9v...

And would only see the amperage (or lower according to when it cuts off) in your calculations.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

sorry that's not how mooch describes it and i trust him implicitly. He talks about watts settings and voltage of battery when you fire, and series mods..you divide the watts by the battery voltage.. in this case you divide your watts by 3, then that watts figure by the individual cell's voltage. And that's how I did my calculations. 28 amps shared by three batteries, you are saying the DNA250 will only ask 9.33 amps of each battery max, and there's no way I buy that. If you mean 28 amps per cell, that makes sense, that's what i was at with my 27.7 figure already anyway.

You are not understanding him.

Understandable.

Even expected until you have experience and education in electronics.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

how can it be 28 amps per cell when the max amps is 60 at peak? are you telling me the input amps exceeds the output amps then?

otherwise i am totally lost.

I just wanted to say, i greatly appreciate all the replies and attempt to help me in this situation, i really do, but I just don't understand it properly.

maybe i will try in a laymans way: should 25R's be safe in it or you think that's too risky? Would a 25R blow up if it pulsed to 28? I mean that would be really in the rarest situation as my normal vaping is tootling, so it might be a rare pulse of cloud chasing.

I have three vtc5a's in it, but i'd rather have them in my 100 watt single battery mods where i feel they are much safer than a 25R.

I've also ordered some HB6's but they are only 1500 mah, and who even knows if they are genuine.

25R is fine.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

Because you're only concerned with battery output to choose a battery.

On the other side of that regulator, that circuit has it's own stats that would require coil resistance and wattage to calculate.

It's about a 0.08 ohm coil that would require 55 AMPS at 250 watts. The chip would supply about 4.55 volts to achieve that.

And that has nothing to do with the batteries aside from needing the power (watts) to calculate AMPS pulled from them.

Tapatyped

 

[Vesh]

You are not understanding him.

Understandable.

Even expected until you have experience and education in electronics.

Tapatyped

Sorry but i understand basic math.... I don't need someone to keep rubbing into me what i DON'T understand though, and just explain it a non condescending manner. Last post of yours i will ever read. Bip. Button pressed.

 

[Vesh]

25R is fine.

Tapatyped

well then you don't know what you are talking about, because it has been made abundantly clear that at high settings the DNA250 can draw up to 28 amps each cell. and that is way too high for a 25R

 

[Vesh]

9 volts means series.

If that's the case they'll all see the same amperage.

The amperage you calculated would apply around cutoff voltage.

So a good 25 to 30 or better amp set of cells would be best.

Unless you never vape at full throttle.

I believe output AMPS would be the stat you're asking about.

They don't concern the battery at all.

To get 250 watts at 55 amps, the device would be regulating the output to 4.545 volts.

The battery would be supplying at least 3v per cell for a total of at least 9v...

And would only see the amperage (or lower according to when it cuts off) in your calculations.

Tapatyped

So basically everything I already said, and what others added to and confirmed.

 

[Vesh]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "taps the batteries at the input stage," but generally if you set the mod for 150W, it'll get those 150W (plus a little for inefficiency) from the batteries.

What will matter is either what the batteries can safely do vs what the chip/mod can safely do. Both of them will have a rating, lowest one wins.


You're only seeing it because you know it is a DNA250 board and your manufacturer passed it along to be sure you selected batteries that were capable of powering the mod at high outputs. That is common for high power mods with removable batteries. If it had a built in battery, it is not likely you'd have seen that spec sheet unless you researched and found it.

90% of my mods use external batts.. never seen that stat before today..for example, smok alien..
I've researched plenty since this thread, almost all don't have such a specification anywhere

 

[daviedog]

Why not visit DNA forum..

 

[Flavored]

90% of my mods use external batts.. never seen that stat before today..for example, smok alien..
I've researched plenty since this thread, almost all don't have such a specification anywhere

Ok, I believe you, but how many of your mods have a chip in them capable of over 80W per battery? At significantly lower powers, battery concerns become much less, almost a no-nevermind. The Smok Alien is surely a higher powered mod, and I would expect either the manufacturer or the vendor to advise on battery requirements for max power. It is what it is.
But, to reiterate, the DNA 200-250 chips were made with LIPO's in mind . . .

 

[beckdg]

Sorry but i understand basic math.... I don't need someone to keep rubbing into me what i DON'T understand though, and just explain it a non condescending manner. Last post of yours i will ever read. Bip. Button pressed.

Jesus, man. Whatever is your problem, let it go. I was trying to help. I even said this all wasn't easy concepts. It's all grey until you can differentiate between one side of the regulator and the other.

well then you don't know what you are talking about, because it has been made abundantly clear that at high settings the DNA250 can draw up to 28 amps each cell. and that is way too high for a 25R

Ask Mooch.

I've personally seen him recommend the 25R for similar.

10 seconds or less at under 28 AMPS isn't going to make the 25R go thermal.

Quit being so stubborn. It's not helping you at all.

So basically everything I already said, and what others added to and confirmed.

A little understanding of how forums work.

People can only respond up to the point they've read.

So yes, as I read, I responded.

And yes, my responses backed up what informed posters had already said.

Consistency is good.

And LATER I got to the point where those answers had already been posted.

Take a chill pill, dude.

I'm not trying to insult you.

And you're welcomed.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

well then you don't know what you are talking about, because it has been made abundantly clear that at high settings the DNA250 can draw up to 28 amps each cell. and that is way too high for a 25R

In my opinion, this is a fantastic 20A continuous discharge current (CDR) cell with good capacity for its rating. I recommend not using it above 30A.

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/index.php?threads/706485/



You can apologize when you're ready. [emoji14]

Tapatyped