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Turbocad's finally selling mods :)

Discussion in 'Modder/Accessories Supplier Forum' started by turbocad6, Jun 4, 2016.

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  1. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    How do you vary voltage on a mech, other than making it a multi-cell mod that can be run series or parallel..?
     
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  2. rudy4653

    rudy4653 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 2, 2012
    CT
    I was thinking like the old VV REO? or the tube batteries than can range from like 3.5 to 4.2v?
     
  3. turbocad6

    turbocad6 Registered Supplier - Offline ECF Veteran

    Jan 17, 2011
    brooklyn ny
    yeah I have considered maybe doing a mosfet version too, but not VV, to me by the time I build in VV circuitry then might as well just make it a fully chipped mod, but a mosfet may be a possibility I'm considering too..

    as far as price it's a little too early to tell, but it will not be a really cheap mod like many of the 3D printed mods out there, I'm sure there is a huge market for cheap 3D printed mods but that is really not my thing, these will still be hand crafted and machined from solid blocks of material with attention to detail and quality components, IE; high end 510's and silver plated contacts etc, so they will def not be cheap, but still a few hundred less than the full blown temp controlled BAMS.

    of course these will still not be for everybody but I never set out to to build mods for everybody, I more cater to those who are looking for some of the best mods available and I build each and every one myself from scratch so my quantity is always going to be limited because of that too, if I was looking to just cater to the masses then I'd probably be more just looking to import some cheap thing or have some inexpensive design printed for me and just add a mark up to that, but I'm not really just looking to sell a huge quantity of cheap mods, my thing is more of being a modder and building mods from scratch all in house, not just a mod seller, they are really 2 very different business models tbh...

    I'll update more when I do wind up building a prototype, I ordered some tooling and materials necessary to build a few for testing and after I get my processes nailed down I'll know more about my costs and labor times to produce these which is the determining factor of how much I will be able to sell them for while still being sustainable...
     
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  4. btobw

    btobw Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 7, 2013
    Sydney, Australia
    Did someone say mech?

    /me pops up out of nowhere :D
     
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  5. laurie9300

    laurie9300 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 10, 2014
    Sydney Australia
    Hi Di!
     
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  6. rudy4653

    rudy4653 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 2, 2012
    CT
    You're right about VV as it would compromise size. That's what I figured after thinking about it, not a great idea. However the mofset switch would be great! No button mashing! Firing button contact to battery contact always a problem area. Cleaning etc.:nah:
    Never a doubt that you would produce the best mech on the market for the discerning vapor.:thumb:
     
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  7. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    IIRC, the the VV REO (I never had one) used stacked 18350s and a buck regulator.
     
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  8. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    Solid silver. There is no substitute. Plating will eventually fail due to arcing. Solid silver can be polished good as new.
     
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  9. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    If it's got a MOSFET switch, it's not a mech. :2c:
     
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  10. btobw

    btobw Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 7, 2013
    Sydney, Australia
    I agree on both points, Rossum :thumb:

    Mechs don't have to involve button mashing. In the past, I've had mechs that I needed to use both hands to fire; but my current mechs have feather-light switches.
     
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  11. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    FWIW, I'm not against a MOSFET switch. I'm just opposed to calling such a thing a "mech". :)
     
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  12. turbocad6

    turbocad6 Registered Supplier - Offline ECF Veteran

    Jan 17, 2011
    brooklyn ny
    yes, I wholeheartedly agree but so many guys are so centered on cost that I was considering maybe having this be an optional upgrade to full solid silver guts for maybe $25-$30 or so, for so many people out there a small difference in price like this can actually be a pivoting factor... it's kind of like a car where there is a market for the base model as well as a fully loaded version. originally I wouldn't have thought a small price item like this actually needs these different price point levels but since doing this modding thing I've come to learn different. I may just start out with the pure silver version first and then see if there is a need to make a lower priced option

    actually I've been doing some research on silver contacts too and pure silver at .999 is not harden-able, which could be an issue when it comes to spring factor on a mech contact, so I have found some argentium silver which is hardenable with heat treat, it's not quite as pure though so I just need to research the difference in conductivity. the alternative may actually be using berilium copper strips with pure silver contact "heads" to get the best of both worlds as far as contact integrity and hardness for springiness... still working on developing this part of it :)
     
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  13. turbocad6

    turbocad6 Registered Supplier - Offline ECF Veteran

    Jan 17, 2011
    brooklyn ny
    and yeah, a mosfet is not a mech, heck many will not even consider something a true mech even if it uses wires as opposed to mechanical strips, personally I don't think that is true, an adequate wire is equally as effective, but mass perception doesn't see it that way I guess :)
     
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  14. Doffy

    Doffy Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 15, 2014
    Australia
    I never found much difference in *conductivity* between becu and silver. But silver is more *responsive*

    Needs to be silver on silver for the make/break. Not silver on battery acting as the switch.
     
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  15. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    I believe that would be an excellent compromise.

    Pure (.99+) silver has higher conductivity than copper, but silver alloys generally don't. Besides, a small difference in conductivity is not very important provided the cross sectional area of the conductor is not a limiting factor (and I rather doubt it is here).

    What solid silver excels at is holding up to the torture of a make/break contact. There's a reason why quality, high-current relays and contactors used it as the contact material.

    I agree. What determines whether a mod is a "mech" or not is the nature of the switch; i.e. whether all the current flows through a mechanical switch.
     
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  16. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    Yep. I'm kinda frustrated that I can't get a usable picture that shows it, but the tops of the two cells that I use in my CeeCee here both have a ring of pitting on 'em where the contact touches them when firing. The solid silver contact itself always polishes up just fine using nothing more than a Q-tip and some Simichrome, but the cells, nope. They're steel plated with something, and the plating fails due to arcing.

    Note that I am not very aggressive with my builds; this mod has never had anything under 0.5 ohms in it. Building lower would obviously make this issue worse. Now this is not the end of the world because, unlike my mods themselves, I do not expect the cells to last a lifetime.

    FWIW, I do not see this on my l'il pinch, a mod that has solid silver no both sides of the make/break contact. Both sides always polish up just fine.

    That brings me to another point: The contacts need to be easily accessible for maintenance. Lost Vape introduced a fairly cool looking mech sqounker this spring. I was tempted, until I saw how much disassembly was required to get to the contacts. Nope; that's deal breaker.
     
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  17. skillzizzo

    skillzizzo Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 9, 2015
    west lebanon nh
    Hello Turbo and family has been awhile sence I have been around here. I quit nicotine and vaping about a year ago and sadly sold off all my gear. Now I am back to vaping but strictly for c.b.d purposes. You have seriously peeked my intereste with the cam mech my friend. Please add me to the top of this list my friend. I am a mech mod lover. the only problem I have with mechs which seems to be impossible to avoid is arching batteries, tired of sanding battery tops and rewrapping them is this a solvable issue in the desing process. looking forward to this mod my friend. is allways and issue with cc mods, tmods, any other mod designed with those king of contacts. seems the only way to cure the issue is with a batterie sled. but don't see you doing that. Your thoughts on this issue and how to correct it from happening in a mod that is still going to perfom correctly. As we all know contacts is a specialty of yours. also one huge part for me is some way to lock the switch, or recess the switch in a way that it can not fire on accident. I am a person who buys these mods and brings them were I go, every were I go
     
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  18. turbocad6

    turbocad6 Registered Supplier - Offline ECF Veteran

    Jan 17, 2011
    brooklyn ny
    yeah as Rossum has already said, the make/break contact point absolutely can not be on the battery itself, and yes, also as he has said the biggest benefit of silver is not so much the difference in conductivity, it's simply the fact that the oxide layer that does inevitably form is actually still highly conductive with silver, which is unlike any other metal, including becu copper. most oxidation is an insulating film which reduces conductivity

    this is the reason why gold is used much in high end contacts, because gold, while it is not quite as conductive as either silver or copper, but it does has the unique trait of not oxidizing at all, so even if it is only say 89% as conductive (ball park guestimate) it will always stay at exactly this potential and not degrade, where copper, even though it may have the potential for 97% when absolutely oxide free, it's all down hill from there and a bit of oxide buildup can quickly reduce the superior conductivity down to below this level and actually result in an inferior connection in real world use.

    as far as actual conductivity, the contacts will always be the weakest link assuming the conductor is adequately sized, even something as crappy as say aluminum can be a great conductor itself as long as it is mechanically bound to whatever it is conducting from. aluminum is absolutely horrible when it comes down to the oxidation, it forms a heavy film of insulating oxidation immediately with exposure to oxygen even immediately after it is cleaned so it is a horrible contact material, but don't kid yourself, with enough mass the conductivity of the material is not much of a limiting factor, it all comes down to the weakest link, which in the case of a mech in almost all cases is going to be the make/break contact first, then either the battery contacts or the 510 pin connection, then the integrity of the grounding through the 510 outer threading, and then way down on the list is where the conductivity of the conducting material even comes into play in most cases, as long as the conductor is adequately sized the actual conductor is far from the weakest link or limiting factor. a 10 gauge aluminum wire will "conduct" more amperage and electron flow than a 26 gauge becu copper wire even though the copper is a much better conductor, the larger mass and surface area makes up for the less actual conductivity rating.

    when it comes to electron flow this would be a case off quantity over quality... for an analogy if anyone doesn't get it, you can look at it this way... lets say copper is a guy who can earn $97 an hour, and silver can earn $100 an hour, where aluminum can earn only $55 an hour... this is it's earning potential(conductivity rating in this analogy)... you will always say copper is a better earner(conductor) than aluminum *with all other things being equal*, that is a given, but what if you put a team of 2 copper guys up against a team of 20 aluminum guys, what would you rather have working for you? the aluminum team can actually have more potential to earn(conduct) than the better earning copper individuals simply because of mass quantity... I think this is something many vapors don't get, I remember seeing so many guys saying "oh my copper tube mod hits much harder than such and such mod...", if that is true, it is not so much because of the material itself, unless of course the material itself is indeed a factor in the interface connection of one of the other much weaker links...
     
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  19. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    I think you mean the cross-sectional area. :)

    (Apologies for being pedantic).
     
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  20. turbocad6

    turbocad6 Registered Supplier - Offline ECF Veteran

    Jan 17, 2011
    brooklyn ny
    well yeah, technically not so much surface area but cross sectional area or overall mass really is more correct when it comes to the conductor, surface area itself does make a very big difference on contact points themselves, well actually not so much surface area, but specifically contact surface area or contact patch which is a main reason why the 510 itself is usually such a large limiting factor too :) surface contact area and contact pressure along with material conducting ability itself are the 3 determining factors
     
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