U.S.A: PACT Act 2009

[newkirk]

Hi Webby,

"For inspection"??? Did you get everything or were there things missing???

I get my insulin pump stuff every 3 months and it's the same thing everytime.. Same UPS guy too.. He says hi by my nickname and knows me, but out of "rules" he still needs to see ID and all.. Kinda silly...

Most big companies, just like governments, end up with lots of 'odd' rules/laws, usually because someone in an expensive suit started sweating and said "I don't care, just do it every damned time and cover our asses".

We have an AT&T repair guy who stops by our office pretty regularly. (not repairs, he's a customer) He's required to put out two traffic cones anywhere he parks the truck. Even for lunch. EVER caught not putting out two traffic cones his .... gets run through a meat grinder.

j

 

[AngeLsLuv]

Most big companies, just like governments, end up with lots of 'odd' rules/laws, usually because someone in an expensive suit started sweating and said "I don't care, just do it every damned time and cover our asses".

We have an AT&T repair guy who stops by our office pretty regularly. (not repairs, he's a customer) He's required to put out two traffic cones anywhere he parks the truck. Even for lunch. EVER caught not putting out two traffic cones his .... gets run through a meat grinder.

j

Thar ya' go.. Another "Suit" with big moves to save his tushy.. It always suprises me about how the "Suits" can do what they want to cover themselves....

 

[AngeLsLuv]

OK I did my experiment...

I soaked the pipe toabbo for afew days instead of just one.. Reason being is that it was right next to my cappuchino maker and even though it was staring me in the face, I forgot about it... I put just enough water over it to cover it well...

I then did the strainer/coffee filter straining and found that it took a number of times doing it, because the pipe tobacco splits apart (well soaking it for as long as I did, no wonder)... Make sure you do this straining until you do not have any tobacco leaves in the fluid..

One pounch of pipe toabacco turns out to be not that much when doing this, so I'd suggest to try a pouch once for a trial run and then if you continue doing this, you work with a larger quantity (more on that below)...

With the small amount, I used a tiny frying pan.. The type that you can fit like 2 eggs in... Turned the burner on high and boiled it.. I probably boiled it too much, but since this was an experiment, I wanted to see how thick this stuff would turn out to be, plus my mind was vegged out since I was using a small spatula to stir and scrape it, and got into a "zen experience"

Here's the deal... Either the directions I posted or another one I have somewhere says the same things (essentially).. This stuff turns into thick molassas (HAHAHA! Remember those T-Shirts back in the day with all the moles butts in front view and it said "Molassas" HAHA!!!)... *My Mind!! I Love My Mind!!*

Getting it out of the pan was fun and was glad I used a spatula to make sure I got it all.. I transfered it to the same container I soaked the tobacco in..

Here's where it got interesting.. I attempted to syringe it out of the container, but the syringe wouldn't suck this stuff up, even if I threatened it with spatulacide... I then added a touch of vodka and VG to it so that I could get this sludge out of the container.. I can't give you amounts since they were so slight (I only wanted to losen it up enough so that the consistancy was looser than tar)..

When all that was done, I ended up with less than 15ml of "pre-juice"...

Reading further on this, I decided that since the pipe tobacco is 11mg nicotine and as said "raw" tobacco is differant in mg's, it got me thinking.. Along with this, I have been smoking afew analogs a day again, because I stupidly bought a dozen 18mg-30ml juices and they are just not enough, even though this thing is in my mouth constantly... *** Here ya' go.. Shoot me*** Instead of doing the insulin syringe (based in units *usa*) and dosing it out little-by-little, I just took the ml bottle I put it in and dropped 12 drops into a 18mg bottle I have sitting here (12 drops into the 1/2 full bottle of 18mg juice)...

This is not over-dosing me, I'm not dead... Using drops (same size bottles from the same company), this is a bit too much nicotine.. I can't tell you how many mg's this is, but I'll see later, since I will cut it by 2 drops at a time, or go back and try the syringe method like I was origionally planning...

Also noticed on this forum that one person uses snus, and the other using analog tobacco and they soak them and use the liquid as a tobacco flavoring... Sure, I boiled mine down so the mg of nicotine would be more...

I've learned:

1) Wash the fry pan and strainer a number of times, and with dish detergent and Ajax (or Comet) with bleach.. This is to prevent anyone else getting a hit of nicotine, plus after a handful of washes, you can still smell the tobacco..

2) This is possible to do.. The configuaration is set for each individual..

3) If you like the taste of tobacco, this is cool, but if you were a menthol smoker, add alot of menthol

4) I'd never use the same flavor again.. Caven___Something.. Yucky-Blah!!!

5) Don't use the syringe (needled or needleless) on anything else.. This stuff is really strong and I still can't get the smell off/out of the syringe.. Tried everything except boiling it..

I need a break.. Can't think anymore....

 

[AngeLsLuv]

Newkirk,

Speaking of "Suits"...

I'm always reminded of the "WKRP" Turkey episode.. During it the guys are all in the "Big Guy"'s office and Les and Herb get into this "Suits vs The Dungerees" since the younger ones there want to take control and the older ones are clueless conversation.. At the end, Les says "you know.. I blame it on Levi Straus"...

**Classic Episode**

 

[JerryRM]

Congratulations, Jules ! I hope it works out well for you.

 

[AngeLsLuv]

Congratulations, Jules ! I hope it works out well for you.

Thankys Jerry,

Just wanted to see if it would work (just in case)...

I'm just really suprised that it turns into like sludge it's so thick *LOL*

 

[JerryRM]

I haven't heard anything new about the PACT Act. I guess they are all busy with health care reform.

 

[AngeLsLuv]

I haven't heard anything new about the PACT Act. I guess they are all busy with health care reform.

I thought that it was curbed until when they get back from the holidays, and had to go through some more steps???

If we are lucky it will get lost....

 

[ACM]

(This is a double-post. I put the same in another PACT-related thread).

This is a reply from NY State Senator Kirsten Gillibrand in response to an email I sent her office expressing my concerns that the PACT law might seriously infringe on our right to vape, and to choose a less damaging alternative to smoking. I also sent an email to Chuck Schumer, but all I got from his office was a generic, "we get lots of emails and cannot personally respond to each one, yada, yada, yada..."

Anyway, here's Sen. Gillibrand's email to me:

"Thank you for writing to me about S. 1147, the Preventing All Cigarette Trafficking of 2009 (PACT) Act. While I understand and respect the concerns that you have with this legislation, I have decided to add my name as a cosponsor to this bill for several reasons that I find important.

One of the primary purposes of the PACT Act is to eliminate the ability of minors to purchase cigarettes over the internet. This bill requires that all purchasers of cigarettes and smokeless tobacco present positive age identification upon receipt of the product which they have purchased. This means that an individual receiving home delivery of a pack or carton of cigarettes must show some form of identification, such as a driver's license, in the same manner as if they purchased the tobacco product at a local store. I believe that it is currently too easy for minors to purchase tobacco products online under false pretenses, and this legislation will stop this unsafe practice.

This bill also increases enforcement against the black market sale of cigarettes, which undercut legitimate commerce and cost millions of dollars in lost revenues to companies legally engaged in the sale of tobacco products. Adults who wish to purchase tobacco on the internet will still be allowed to under this legislation; however, those products cannot be carried through the U.S. Postal Service. Other common carriers, such as Fed-Ex and UPS, will still be allowed to transport online purchases so long as delivery is made in person to an individual of legal age.

Though we may respectfully disagree on this particular issue, it is my intent, and that of my colleagues in the United States Senate, to protect the health and safety of children around New York and the United States from the harmful effects of underage smoking. While this legislation may be considered burdensome by some, it is my hope that it will protect lawful commerce and ensure that cigarettes are only made available to those individuals legally able to purchase them.

Thank you again for writing to express your concerns, and I hope that you keep in touch with my office regarding future legislation and concerns you may have."

Maybe we have little to worry about, as the law seems exclusive to "cigarettes and smokeless tobacco", not nicotine juice.

 

[TropicalBob]

Any further restrictions on purchase and delivery of tobacco products will impact e-smoking down the road, if not immediately. And if the court should declare e-cigs a tobacco product, then the delivery impact would follow passage of PACT.

Please ... never, never use the incorrect phrase "right to vape". There is no such right, by any stretch of the imagination.

We are seeking to legalize a new alternative to cigarette smoking, a safer way of obtaining nicotine without the known health hazards of inhaling smoke. That's a common goal most can support. Even being tactful and truthful, we have out work cut out for us. "Right to vape" makes our practice a joke.

 

[AngeLsLuv]

I thought that the Pact Act included USP, Fed Ex, etc..

Also this will probably go through the same garbage the Health Care Reform is going through.. By the time it is done, no one will be able to get anything shipped in any way...

Of course we are all mad at this going on, and all but this gets me mad on top of the juice, because the Postal Service has lost $140 million already from the Pact Act 2003 and the Native American reservations are to lose even more money from this... Thus another way for the USA government to screw with the Native Americans, and the Postal Service will lose even more more.. Just wait until shipping is increased even more and stamps cost more from this... The way it's going, it will be no time until it will cost $1.00 to mail a postcard...

Not to forget that I buy things online due to the fact that my chosen purchases cannot be found at stores in my area. If I can buy something at a store at home, I buy at the store and not online..

With all the kick-backs they get in DC, you'd think they would leave something alone.. If a person lives in a city (like NYC) it is easy for them to buy whatever they want if they look around.. Not me, I live in the booney's of Northeast PA..

As with anything else.. Follow the $$$$

 

[ACM]

BTW - Does anyone remember how, a few years ago, UPS decided NOT to ship cigarettes and tobacco products after the government started complaining how internet smokeshops were not collecting state or local sales taxes?

If that is true, maybe Sen. Gillibrand was not clear on the true impact of this law, after all.

 

[ACM]

Please ... never, never use the incorrect phrase "right to vape". There is no such right, by any stretch of the imagination.

While I didn't actually use that phrase in my correspondence with Sens. Schumer and Gillibrand, I don't fully agree with your take on its use. As adults, it IS our right to vape, if we choose to do so. It's not currently an illegal activity. The proposed legislation could potentially infringe on our rights, as adults, to choose healthier alternatives to smoking. It's not a "constitutional" right, but it's as much of a right as the right to smoke analogs, drink alcohol, and eat fattening foods.

I did not say "right to vape in public places", because I don't not see that as a right.

For the record, this is the email I originally sent to the good senators:

"I am writing to ask you not to pass the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act of 2009 (“PACT Act”) (S.1147) when it comes up for a vote in the Senate. This is clearly a wrongheaded law that is intended only to preserve the tax revenue collected through unfair and excessive taxes that have, over the years, been applied to cigarettes and tobacco products. While it might be presented to the American people as a way to ensure that tobacco products do not fall into the hands of minors, the reality is that few, if any, minors have the means to make internet or mail-order purchases of tobacco products. It is not a law to protect minors. It is a law to protect tax revenue. And it is unfair to legal, adult smokers who would hope to purchase a potentially life-saving alternative to tobacco products.

Electronic cigarettes (e-cigs) are an arguably safer tobacco-free alternative for nicotine addicted individuals. Currently, they are only widely available through internet purchases and must be shipped by UPS, FedEd, or the USPS. They are not currently approved by the FDA, but are likely to be classified in the near future as "tobacco products". If that happens, they would fall under the umbrella of this law, and they would effectively be banned from the marketplace.

I propose that the right course of action is to reject this law and propose a new one that would require all internet tobacco retailers to collect whatever sales tax is levied by various state and local governments on tobacco products. That would enable people to purchase items like electronic cigarettes, have them shipped via the USPS, and still preserve tax revenue. In fact, forcing electronic cigarette retailers to collect sales tax would increase such revenue, as sales tax is not currently collected on most of these sales.

Barring that course of action, I would suggest that you propose to amend the law to clearly omit electronic cigarettes and their related accessories, refill kits, and nicotine cartridges.

Please do not force American citizens who have been unable to beat their nicotine addiction, but who no longer actually smoke, to return to using cigarettes, cigars, or other tobacco products. The passage of this law will, in effect, force many to do just that, putting their health, and their lives, at risk. Big-tobacco has long been supported by the U.S. government, and continues to be. That support makes the U.S. government complicit in the hundreds of thousands of smoking-related deaths that occur in America each year. Since it is unlikely that cigarettes themselves will ever be banned in this country, it is now the responsibility of government to ensure that safer alternatives to cigarettes remain available to its citizens. E-cigs are one such alternative. Please do not take this option away from your constituents.

Do not allow the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act of 2009 to pass."

Based on her reply, it seems unlikely that sales and private carrier shipments of e-cigs or e-cig accessories would in jeopardy under this particular law (if they are not already - see my above post). The more worrisome issue is if the FDA decides they are unsafe and bans their sale in the U.S. outright. That is, in my mind, a very likely scenario, and one that has no correlation to the PACT law at all.

 

[JerryRM]

Here we go with the "think of the children" argument again. The PACT Act is about taxes. The states lose tax money, when someone buys on the Internet.

It makes me wonder what they will be "protecting the children" from next.

As for the right to vape, must we have approval from the government for everything we do? This is not freedom. What happened to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?

 

[AngeLsLuv]

BTW - Does anyone remember how, a few years ago, UPS decided NOT to ship cigarettes and tobacco products after the government started complaining how internet smokeshops were not collecting state or local sales taxes?

If that is true, maybe Sen. Gillibrand was not clear on the true impact of this law, after all.

Right.. From what I remember, UPS had to stop shipping tobacco products..

The Pact Act 2003 was about the taxes
PACT Act

What still suprises me is that the online stores selling Shisha (tobacco for Hookahs) are not in an uproar over this at all...

 

[Stubby]

BTW - Does anyone remember how, a few years ago, UPS decided NOT to ship cigarettes and tobacco products after the government started complaining how internet smokeshops were not collecting state or local sales taxes?

If that is true, maybe Sen. Gillibrand was not clear on the true impact of this law, after all.

UPS does not ship cigarettes but does ship all other forms of tobacco, as in pipe tobacco, cigars and all forms of smokeless tobacco. The idea that UPS does not shop any tobacco products is a bit of misinformation that has been floated around for some time. At one point I did manage to track down the source of that misinformation but can't find it at the moment. If I remember correctly someone reporting on the UPS shipping policy mistakenly said tobacco instead of cigarettes, while UPS does make a distention and only singles out cigarettes in there non-shipping policy.

The PACT act does not prevent any other carrier except USPS from shipping tobacco.

 

[AngeLsLuv]

Here we go with the "think of the children" argument again. The PACT Act is about taxes. The states lose tax money, when someone buys on the Internet.

It makes me wonder what they will be "protecting the children" from next.

As for the right to vape, must we have approval from the government for everything we do? This is not freedom. What happened to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?

Exactly!!!!

It's always about the kids, and the increase in ciggie tax was to go towards the S-Chip.. So the government added taxes from smoking to cover children's health care.. Makes no sense because this basically means that people need to use tobacco to pay for health care for kids
YouTube - SCHIP: Care Enough to Smoke?

As far as DC, We need to get Congressman Tom McClintock on our side *check this out, he says it all*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aEu8juI8zs&feature=related

 

[JerryRM]

Excellent videos, Jules!

 

[AngeLsLuv]

Excellent videos, Jules!

Thanksy Jerry

Ya' Changed your moniker, Cool!!! Looks Good

 

[JerryRM]

Thanksy Jerry

Ya' Changed your moniker, Cool!!! Looks Good

Jules, just until New Years, I will be back to Gandalf in a few days. I haven't heard you in a while, I was hoping the nicotine experiment hadn't put you out of commission!! Glad to see you are still around.