Still worth a shot, if it doesn't work you're out another 10$ and have spare mesh to play with as a genny wick.
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I don't really understand what is being shot for. From my understanding he already has a vibrating mesh device.
Now I'm not sure but it seems like the mesh is integrated into the ultrasonic transducer. It isn't like hes going to remove a piece of mesh and just slip a different one into place.
Now I'm not sure but it seems like the mesh is integrated into the ultrasonic transducer. It isn't like hes going to remove a piece of mesh and just slip a different one into place.
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True, but it is on my bench at work and I am not.
I never considered replacing the mesh. I was thinking of getting a piezo transducer and mounting it on there. Not sure yet if that can be done without destroying it. I have also thought of fixing the mesh to something else and placing the unmodified transducer behind it.
I never considered replacing the mesh. I was thinking of getting a piezo transducer and mounting it on there. Not sure yet if that can be done without destroying it. I have also thought of fixing the mesh to something else and placing the unmodified transducer behind it.
If yours is anything like mine then the mesh is part of the transducer, took mine apart after my last post.
If you placed a solid transducer in its place then nothing would get through.
The mesh is probably already 3-4 microns and the recomended SG is 1.03. PG is 1.036 so maybe the VG in my juice is what forced me to water it down so much since VG has an SG of 1.26.
If you placed a solid transducer in its place then nothing would get through.
The mesh is probably already 3-4 microns and the recomended SG is 1.03. PG is 1.036 so maybe the VG in my juice is what forced me to water it down so much since VG has an SG of 1.26.
For the uninitiated, SG is "Specific Gravity" or in plain English, how much something weighs in relation to water. So, water has a SG of 1, and something that is twice as dense as water would have a SG of 2.
I imagine you can also experiment with flavorings that are more concentrated, and add just water to try to achieve the SG of 1.26. You might also add other stuff, like alcohol with a SG of 0.79 to balance out the denser stuff.
Another issue that I have not seen mentioned is the viscosity. Even the surface tension may be a factor, but I don't know if there is even a standard measurement for surface tension.
By the way, my initial guess about how the screen was vibrated was totally wrong. I had imagined the screen vibrating in a different plain. I thought it moved like a sheet of paper sliding on a table, rather than a wave on a lake. My concept would have required some back pressure to force the fluid through the holes. My concept may also allow more variety for the fluid parameters. There is certainly more than one way to skin a cat.
Joe Dunfee
Yes but, when I added enough water for it to work there was no vapor cloud on exhalation. Might not be a big deal for some but it might be to others.
That sounds like a jet nebulizer or pressure mist but these use a relatively big and loud compressor.
I don't have enough exposure to this area to say. But, it depends on how fast you want to force the liquid through the holes. If you have a lot of holes, you can afford to wait for a single droplet size portion of liquid to get through, then dislodge it with the vibration of the ultrasound.
I wonder if the surface tension would be a major factor. At a small scale, surface tension is powerful enough to overcome gravity as shown by liquid from tree roots being taken to the top of a tall tree. It may be harder to overcome pushing a liquid through a small hole that the surface tension wants to hold on to.
Joe Dunfee.
Well, I'm no pro in the area either but I have played around with a couple different ultrasonic devices. One of them was an ultrasonic humidifier which had a solid transducer that sat about two inches below the surface of the liquid and had no problem forcing a stream of vapor, which would be overkill for vaping, from that depth. It did this with 17 watts, IIRC.
From what I have read, the novelty of the mesh technology is that it "sits" on the surface and therfore uses less energy and, while that is a good thing, it is relative. What I mean by this is that while a mesh transducer might, hypothetically, give you 3 days of vaping from a 1100mah battery, a solid transducer at the bottom of a tank might only give you 2. So it is less but, it would still be more than acceptable.
I just happen to have a 6 ml syringe in front of me which is 1.5 cm in diameter, about the same as an ego battery, and 2 inches is just shy of the 6 ml mark. So, if a solid transducer could push vapor for a full day through more than a full days worth of e-juice then I don't see anything wrong with it.
The medical and facial misters are aimed at pushing large amounts of liquid, 10-12 ml per hour, while our need is only a fraction of that but, we need to be able to handle thicker liquids so, the advantages in those applications are not necessarily an advantage as far as e-cigs are concerned.
From what I have read, the novelty of the mesh technology is that it "sits" on the surface and therfore uses less energy and, while that is a good thing, it is relative. What I mean by this is that while a mesh transducer might, hypothetically, give you 3 days of vaping from a 1100mah battery, a solid transducer at the bottom of a tank might only give you 2. So it is less but, it would still be more than acceptable.
I just happen to have a 6 ml syringe in front of me which is 1.5 cm in diameter, about the same as an ego battery, and 2 inches is just shy of the 6 ml mark. So, if a solid transducer could push vapor for a full day through more than a full days worth of e-juice then I don't see anything wrong with it.
The medical and facial misters are aimed at pushing large amounts of liquid, 10-12 ml per hour, while our need is only a fraction of that but, we need to be able to handle thicker liquids so, the advantages in those applications are not necessarily an advantage as far as e-cigs are concerned.
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I think vapor production might be the only reason. I'm not sure but the mesh technology that is available might not be able to offer the droplet size that gives billowing vapor and since the pore size is set, it seems that it might be a dead end. One of the things I did notice with my mini-mist is that even with plain water the vapor doesn't appear to be too fine.
My other point, which I guess wasn't clear, is that these devices are designed to nebulize too much liquid for our needs. So besides tweaking the liquid one would have to mod the nebulizer to deliver much less liquid.
I think that the fact that the mesh is delicate and easily damaged diminishes its energy advantage.
Sorry it has been so long. But it has been busy lately. And it hasn't help that my employer has gotten picky about using company equipment even if it is on your own time. I am working on setting up a lab away from lab.
I have done a little work on the steamer. When operating it draws around 180mA. It drives the piezo transducer with 32V at 142kHz.
It also uses a reed switch which is why it warns not to expose it to magnetic fields.
The misting element it self is a steel toroid substrate. The metal mesh is sandwiched between it and the piezo transducer. The mesh is around 6mm in diameter. The holes are about 100um apart.
I have done a little work on the steamer. When operating it draws around 180mA. It drives the piezo transducer with 32V at 142kHz.
It also uses a reed switch which is why it warns not to expose it to magnetic fields.
The misting element it self is a steel toroid substrate. The metal mesh is sandwiched between it and the piezo transducer. The mesh is around 6mm in diameter. The holes are about 100um apart.
Do you think it is worth trying to replace the misting element with something else to try to make it work for vaping, or do you think your tests indicate that it just wouldn't work no matter what?
I think the question is, can it be replaced? Mine seems to be embedded, for lack of a better word. Bigger mesh wouldn't help and I don't think smaller is possible at home. Would love to be wrong but that is just how I see it.
At 32v and at 180mA it would be drawing 5.76 watts. Taking into account the volume it is great but we don't really need that much.
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Airborne/Atomized PG itself has been shown to have a strong antiseptic effect. IMHO due to its hygroscopic nature.
I see some potential validity in this point. One of the reasons that we absorb nicotine more slowly and with a lower efficacy from our vapor than from smoke is that it is a vapor. The droplets of vapor are significantly larger (by a factor of 10 by my recollection) and thereby are not physically able to reach the alveoli, the smallest division in our lungs. Smoke particles on the other hand are which allows for a greater surface area thereby a higher exposure and faster absorption and delivery. It would take some research but I have a suspicion that the droplets produced by nebulizers and piezo-electric humidifiers and atomizers may be even larger yet. If this is true the efficacy would be even further reduced.
Either way this is an interesting direction and I have also been curious why that original format was abandoned.
I just came across this abstract
Comparison of three commercial ul... [Ann Allergy Asthma Immunol. 2000] - PubMed - NCBI
Which states that:
These were ultrasonic nebulizers and the difference was that they used a saline and albuterol nebulizer solutions. So no PG or VG. This is quite a difference from the 10x diameter given for e-cig vapor, quoted quite often, when compared to the .27 microm that I found for cigarette smoke. I'm willing to bet that there was no pretty cloud of vapor upon exhalation.
It may be that there is a greater need to appease the psychological needs of the smoker/vaper. Maybe form won out over function on this one.
Comparison of three commercial ul... [Ann Allergy Asthma Immunol. 2000] - PubMed - NCBI
Which states that:
These were ultrasonic nebulizers and the difference was that they used a saline and albuterol nebulizer solutions. So no PG or VG. This is quite a difference from the 10x diameter given for e-cig vapor, quoted quite often, when compared to the .27 microm that I found for cigarette smoke. I'm willing to bet that there was no pretty cloud of vapor upon exhalation.
It may be that there is a greater need to appease the psychological needs of the smoker/vaper. Maybe form won out over function on this one.
Interesting. I personally wouldn't mind a much more stealth vape where no cloud followed me
Stupid "My Posts" sort order thing burried this thread 4 pages back...
Please excuse the bump.
I am monitoring, and thanking all of you for the information.
I had assumed that the ultrasonic method would be much more energy efficient. How fast it clogs though....Hmmm. Also induction cautions abound with ultrasonics. They can be used to peer though skin, or even have military applications (e.g. lethality) and who know what. So..... Caution.
However, these results are VERY interesting. Particularly the low power levels.
It may not produce a phase change at all (although it COULD...you are inducing kinetic energy into a small droplet so it may actually get excited enough somehow to vaporize...IDK...total guess and maybe not scientifically correct.)
And of course I too was curious why they aren't all ultrasonic now (hence this thread). Maybe coils are just easier. Or safer. Or warmer. Or any/all of the above.
Please excuse the bump.
I am monitoring, and thanking all of you for the information.
I had assumed that the ultrasonic method would be much more energy efficient. How fast it clogs though....Hmmm. Also induction cautions abound with ultrasonics. They can be used to peer though skin, or even have military applications (e.g. lethality) and who know what. So..... Caution.
However, these results are VERY interesting. Particularly the low power levels.
It may not produce a phase change at all (although it COULD...you are inducing kinetic energy into a small droplet so it may actually get excited enough somehow to vaporize...IDK...total guess and maybe not scientifically correct.)
And of course I too was curious why they aren't all ultrasonic now (hence this thread). Maybe coils are just easier. Or safer. Or warmer. Or any/all of the above.
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