Updated!! Pennsylvania: 40% tax = game over for vape

[zoiDman]

Serious? So you think the simple solution for us here in PA is to drive out of state to purchase what we need to vape? What do you do when you live smack dab in the middle of the state? Spend that money in fuel to drive 3+ hours to get across the border? I don't think so.

It's funny to me how people come in here with their simple minded solutions to the issue at hand, however aren't even from PA. Sure it's easy for someone not facing what we are to throw around asinine solutions to a huge problem. I know of one local shop to me closing it's doors because of this and I'm afraid I may see two more do the same. I refuse to sit here and tell myself nor anyone else that "Everything is going to be alright". That's been going on for far too long in this community, leading to people sitting on their ... not doing a thing to contribute to a fight we need to win.

I will not be throwing around any LOL's or LMAO's because this isn't funny to me or to most people here in PA. If I sound ...... it's because I am. If I sound like a jerk so be it, I don't really care at this point. I in the mindset, if you don't have any constructive input on how to alleviate the situation, don't speak.

It's Time for a Rally in the Major Cities.
It's Time for People with Signs in front of the TV Stations.
Its Time for a Letter Drive.
It's Time to Post EVERY House and Senate Member's Name who Voted for this Tax.

It Time to Do More than Talk.

 

[mostlyclassics]

So you think the simple solution for us here in PA is to drive out of state to purchase what we need to vape? What do you do when you live smack dab in the middle of the state?

My wife and I will be retiring within the next year or so. To that end, we put together a bunch of "livability" factors and investigated each state and specific localities within some states. Then we ranked each state, and locality within the states.

The State College/Bellefonte area had rated fairly high (although downgraded mainly because of Pennsylvania's corrupt monopolization of liquor). We have friends in that area, and it's fairly handy to other interesting things in a very interesting state.

After this, though, Pennsylvania has sunk down to 46th out of 50. And, after this, we won't even visit Pennsylvania now.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

If I'm understanding things correctly these vape shops in PA will automatically owe this floor tax and since taxes aren't dischargeable in bankruptcy these shops will close, not be able to sell off their inventory, still owe this floor tax and have no means of possible relief. The PA legislature knew exactly what they were doing, that tax money is guareenteed.

Can't the shops try and sell the inventory before the 40% tax kicks in? I am sure they and the buyer will have to pay some tax now, but wouldn't it be better for the shops than holding onto the merchandise? Just asking, cause I don't really know their total circumstances.

 

[rothenbj]

I sent an email to my representatives via the CASAA site and will be contacting them next week by phone. My email-

I'm extremely disappointed in the regulations that you voted for with regard to e cigarettes. As a former 43 year, 2-3 PAD smoker at the end, these regulations will basically kill an industry that has been very successful in getting what you've asked for for decades, to get people to quit smoking.

I tried to quit at least two dozen times using everything from gimmicks to hypnosis to nutritional products and Pharma snake oil. I found electronic cigarettes in '09 and within 6 months I was able to eliminate the last 6 cigarettes I couldn't get off when I started vaping. Now, over 6 1/2 years removed from cigarettes, I vape only occasionally. However, the regulations will not only kill the industry, but kill actual individuals that will not be afforded the opportunity to have a very viable alternative to smoking. It will also kill the brick and mortar industry that has grown incrementally over the last several years. When the industry dies, so will the jobs that it created. What were you people thinking?

I honestly don't understand the mentality in Harrisburg. The only place you may see an increase in revenues is in cigarette sales, with an associated increase in health costs due to smoking related diseases. Unless the politicians have been lying all along about the cost of those diseases, this legislation is going to have a negative effect on Pennsylvania.

I don't know who advised you that this would be a good law for Pennsylvania, but they were terribly wrong. Other than Big Tobacco, very few vendors will be able to survive the 40% floor tax on not only e liquid, but the hardware that is used for vaping. It's instantaneous death to the industry and vapers will not be satisfied with the offerings from the tobacco industry. Between your legislation and the FDA'S deeming regulations, you may have appeased the Tobacco and Pharma industries to the detriment of society.

I have voted nearly 100% Republican over the last several decades but I can assure you, based on your general lack of concern for the smoking population, I will not be pulling the lever for Mensch or Toepel again.

 

[pennysmalls]

Can't the shops try and sell the inventory before the 40% tax kicks in? I am sure they and the buyer will have to pay some tax now, but wouldn't it be better for the shops than holding onto the merchandise? Just asking, cause I don't really know their total circumstances.

I assume they would need to certainly try to sell as much as they can before the two weeks are up but they would have to slash prices drastically. Unless vapors in PA can kick in and buy up as much as they can. Or vapors from anywhere for that matter. For stores with huge inventories or more than one store front there's gonna be trouble.

 

[GemInEye]

The really sad part, is that you who live in PA have elected officials who are so stupid that they think this tax is a good idea. In actuality, it will have the polar opposite effect to the one intended. It has been proven, here in Canada for example. At one time, Nova Scotia did not have Sunday Shopping. New Brunswick did. So Nova Scotians were doing exactly what a sane and logical person would expect.. we were doing all our shopping out of province on Sunday. Many people worked and only had Sunday off.. so they would go to New Brunswick. New Brunswick retailers, realizing this, put sales and bargains in place on Sunday, which in turn led to more Nova Scotians crossing the boarder on Sundays for the lower prices. The gov't and businesses here lost BILLIONS! Needless to say..we now have Sunday Shopping.

Pennsylvania: 40% tax = game over for vape
LOL not at all.. You are all still going to vape, you will just go out of state to buy your juice. Just like Canadians who live along the border go into the States for alcohol and tobacco products.. I don't know how much smokes are in the US now, but in Canada they are about $140 for an 8 pack carton (25s) Hell yeah, we go to the States to shop! and it isnt just cigarettes and booze Canadians buy when they are there. Even fill up the gas tank for the week.

So.. PA is not a gigantic state. So I can foresee PA residents going out of state to buy e-juice and all their other purchases while they are at it. Seriously.. if you are at a vape shop getting juice, and there is a grocery store right there beside it.. of course you are going to buy your groceries too, as long as you are out anyway, why make a 2nd trip? And as long as you are getting your juice and groceries, may as well pick up that new video game your kid wanted.. and maybe a new tv for your bedroom.. its a chain reaction.. Say you spent $100 a month on juice.. +40% ($40) that is a lot of gas in the tank. May as well take that extra money and have a family day.. shopping the next state over, treat the kids to McDonalds, pick up some bargains.. and what about PA? Screw-em.. what did they do for you? Taxed you 40% on your harm reduction products that probably saved your life. The PA Gov't will get the idea quick enough when local businesses start screaming at them on the phone and pulling political contributions because "Well, with so many of our customers going out of state now, buying their e-juice and other consumables.. we just can't afford to support politicians who literally are taking the food right off our tables!"

See how well your Governor likes those phone called.

I think you have an excellent point..we are very close to DE and MD. I am feeling like i was just turned into a criminal for having vaping stuff. I dont know how any of this will be enforceable? Will i be stopped now for vaping in my car or outside my home? I dont have huge stock piles of juice but still..can i even be seen vaping? I had high hopes that the bill would be reasonable...why i dont know..i was being optimistic i guess.

 

[Vaya]

I'm stunned. Disheartened. Angry. Vengeful?

I've been advocating for vapers' rights for 8 years.
Lived and loved in Pennsylvania all my life.

And thus, we usher in the age of illicit vape product distribution.

Got stuck behind two guys buying twenty cartons of Newports at a Wawa last night. They were from New York.

You just lost big, Pennsylvania.

 

[rothenbj]

Serious? So you think the simple solution for us here in PA is to drive out of state to purchase what we need to vape? What do you do when you live smack dab in the middle of the state? Spend that money in fuel to drive 3+ hours to get across the border? I don't think so.........

Let's not get too dramatic. Corning, NY is about an hour and a half from Williamsport. It is an alternative, at least until NY joins the abusive tax game. I used to travel about the same distance to buy something that was considerably more expensive in State. I'd just buy in bulk rather than as needed and yes, other items also got bought while I was at it.

 

[Kabooma]

PA is hopeless. I've been emailing and even visited my reps office to discuss this as well as so many other problems currently plaguing us. I get nothing back but vague assurances that they are doing what they believe is best for the commonwealth as a whole. We vote them out as fast as elections can come, only to find them replaced with an even worse rep. I hate living here, and if my job wasn't the best job in the freaking world, I'd have moved far away by now.

 

[rothenbj]

In the case of PA you need to change the word Progressives, but you get the idea.

 

[BackDoc]

Neither? America is infamous around the word for it's fight for democracy (bombing, etc.) Now it's coming home.
Majority is deciding how to tax minority. And opinion of majority is easily manipulated by democratic media.

Alien, go back to the planet you came from........I love my country as others here do,have defended it , your attitude is not welcome

 

[Shel]

I agree..........bad choice for VP......I have no idea what he is thinking.............

Yeah, you'll be saying that a LOT if Trump should win.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Alien, go back to the planet you came from........I love my country as others here do,have defended it , your attitude is not welcome

So, you do not want to make it better? Interesting.

 

[Katdarling]

 

[Magic Of Light]

Alien, go back to the planet you came from........I love my country as others here do,have defended it , your attitude is not welcome

I love America as much as the next patriot. But what this country has turned into is actually not America. It is an Oligarchy, and we are also a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. We vote who gets offices, which is democratic. But that makes it a Democratic Constitutional Republic. Not a Democracy. Either way, special interests, big money, and corruption are running amok worldwide right now.

People who take the oath promise to defend this country against all enemies, foreign, and domestic. And we have more domestic right now than foreign. They are trying to rot every country in the world from the inside.

Did you see the list of 72 things they will put you on a terror watch list for? Talking about individual rights, bringing up the constitution ect. Its domestic terrorism through politics.

 

[Smeef]

Let's not get too dramatic. Corning, NY is about an hour and a half from Williamsport. It is an alternative, at least until NY joins the abusive tax game. I used to travel about the same distance to buy something that was considerably more expensive in State. I'd just buy in bulk rather than as needed and yes, other items also got bought while I was at it.

Yes I was over dramatic a bit in the northern direction, but that's not the point. For one I drive a diesel and fuel isn't cheap nor is it economical. Secondly, we as residents of PA should NOT even have to consider driving to another state for vape supplies. Overall I wanted to convey at the time that "driving out of the state" is a simple answer by one person, that even if they would do it, is ridiculous for an entire community. We're talking thousands of residents.

 

[crxess]

I agree..........bad choice for VP......I have no idea what he is thinking

Actually possibly Perfect choice for VP. Position comes with little power or commitment and it gets him the hell out of Indiana. Maybe now some change can be made.
Just think about it.
People must Wake up and act right now. Indiana and Pennsylvania are Perfect Examples of what could happen anywhere across the country, at any time.
I feel horrible for everyone in these Greed Mongering States.
Maryland is still unspoken on any action, but I have prepared 110% for any future outcome.

I am posting this to Every reasonable Campaign thread on Twitter:
Government is Killing By Proxy. 480,000 Deaths Annually

 

[GBalkam]

I think you have an excellent point..we are very close to DE and MD. I am feeling like i was just turned into a criminal for having vaping stuff. I dont know how any of this will be enforceable? Will i be stopped now for vaping in my car or outside my home? I dont have huge stock piles of juice but still..can i even be seen vaping? I had high hopes that the bill would be reasonable...why i dont know..i was being optimistic i guess.

They wont be able to enforce it any more than the police do if they see one guy smoking {other stuff}. They just can't be bothered arresting someone for 1 {other stuff} or bottle of vape juice. It makes them look bad, like they have nothing better to do, when they could be out catching murders. Plus, they didn't become police officers to be Aholes, and giving ppl guff over 1 scrawny vape. To be honest, with the % of vapers, and the number of police.. I bet more than 1 or 2 of them have vape gear too. Besides, it isn't illegal, they just want to tax it to death. Don't worry, it wont last long once voters start screaming. Even non-vapers and non-smokers are gonna pitch fits. If my mom had been a vaper, and the Gov't tried to pull this crap, I would be sitting on the steps of our MP hassling him every time he went to or from the office, Because quite frankly, there is nothing anyone has ever said that MIGHT be an effect of vaping that beats the high risk of cancer associated with smoking.

 

[squee]

If I'm understanding things correctly these vape shops in PA will automatically owe this floor tax and since taxes aren't dischargeable in bankruptcy these shops will close, not be able to sell off their inventory, still owe this floor tax and have no means of possible relief. The PA legislature knew exactly what they were doing, that tax money is guareenteed.

No, the floor tax would be based on inventory as of Oct 1st. So if you've closed up shop prior to that, you are no longer a vape/tobacco retailer, don't have any inventory and there is no tax.

 

[GBalkam]

PA is hopeless. I've been emailing and even visited my reps office to discuss this as well as so many other problems currently plaguing us. I get nothing back but vague assurances that they are doing what they believe is best for the commonwealth as a whole. We vote them out as fast as elections can come, only to find them replaced with an even worse rep. I hate living here, and if my job wasn't the best job in the freaking world, I'd have moved far away by now.

Contact the opposition.. hashtag non-confidence vote. See what happens. And mouth off to local papers, news agencies, etc.. Grab a picket sign and walk in front of the local govt building. (just don't do anything 'non-peaceful') and dont stop moving. Police cant make you move if you don't stop moving and arent misbehaving.
Same as with picket lines.. if you stop moving you are loitering.. if you dont stop, you are just walking.