US extracted nicotine on the way?

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MasteroftheVape

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CASAA: U.S. extracted nicotine will soon be available

Anyone have any updates or info on this?
I find it interesting that the extraction lab Avoca is actually a subsidiary of R.J. Reynolds. It's conspiracy theory time!!

FDA slow to enact any kind of regulation on ecigs. Goverment even slower for taxing liquid nic. R.J. Reynolds bought them out to buy time to set up their own FDA facility with the agreement that after they are up and running Nicotine will then be classified as a controlled substance banning the import of nic from oversea's AND since the only available source would be centralized, the sin taxes can be applied easily. This way goverment gets more money, and big tobacco will offset any profit loss since the mad dash from analog to e-cigs!

On another note, everywhere i read say's this will be the first US nicotine production facility. It rubs me wrong when vendors state USA sourced, made in usa blah blah when its just not true. Man up and say from a wharehouse located in the US that imports from china or India and cut the bull.:2c:
 

we2rcool

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CASAA: U.S. extracted nicotine will soon be available

Anyone have any updates or info on this?
I find it interesting that the extraction lab Avoca is actually a subsidiary of R.J. Reynolds. It's conspiracy theory time!!

FDA slow to enact any kind of regulation on ecigs. Goverment even slower for taxing liquid nic. R.J. Reynolds bought them out to buy time to set up their own FDA facility with the agreement that after they are up and running Nicotine will then be classified as a controlled substance banning the import of nic from oversea's AND since the only available source would be centralized, the sin taxes can be applied easily. This way goverment gets more money, and big tobacco will offset any profit loss since the mad dash from analog to e-cigs!

On another note, everywhere i read say's this will be the first US nicotine production facility. It rubs me wrong when vendors state USA sourced, made in usa blah blah when its just not true. Man up and say from a wharehouse located in the US that imports from china or India and cut the bull.:2c:

Lol, "conspiracy theory time"? It's more like a "conspiracy reality"...and even more like a plain in-your-face 'hiding in plain site' (and not even hiding, at that)!

So, RJ Reynolds,...(through their lobbying & vast circle of other "holdings" - both known holdings and those very difficult to trace back to RJR)...that has bought-and-paid-for and controlled/owned politicians & 3-letter-authorities for DECADES already - is now going to set up an "FDA approved" facility 'operating under food grade current Good Manufacturing Practices (cGMPs)' for extracting nicotine in the USA. Well, isn't THAT special?

From the article link in the CASAA link: Universal Corporation Announces Joint Venture to Produce Liquid Nicotine -- RICHMOND, Va., Aug. 6, 2013 /PRNewswire/ --
the leading global leaf tobacco supplier, announced today that its subsidiary, Virginia Tobacco Company, Inc., has joined Avoca, Inc., one of the world's premier botanical extraction companies, in the formation of AmeriNic, Inc. to produce liquid nicotine for the electronic cigarette industry

This new business will produce high quality, United States Pharmacopeia (USP) grade liquid nicotine in the United States using fully traceable and compliant tobaccos. AmeriNic, Inc. expects to begin production of liquid nicotine before the end of the calendar year.

George C. Freeman, III, Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer of Universal Corporation, stated, "We continually evaluate opportunities to meet the evolving needs of our customers and our industry. The electronic cigarette industry is developing rapidly, and as a leader in leaf tobacco sourcing and agronomic research, we are pleased to bring our expertise to this dynamic market. We believe that the best source of liquid nicotine is tobacco and that AmeriNic, Inc. has the capability needed to build a supply chain to provide the highest quality product at a competitive price. AmeriNic, Inc. looks forward to being a reliable, high-quality supplier for this new and emerging market.
David A. Holmes, President of Pharmachem Laboratories, Inc., parent company of Avoca, Inc. stated, "We are pleased to join with Universal Corporation in forming AmeriNic, Inc. to manufacture and supply liquid nicotine to the fast growing electronic cigarette industry. "This venture fits our business model of controlling the supply chain to ensure reliable delivery of high quality ingredients to our customers.

Based in Merry Hill, North Carolina, Avoca operates an extraction facility operating under food grade current Good Manufacturing Practices (cGMPs).

From the CASAA article:
According to our research, including industry sources, the nicotine currently used in e-cigarette liquid (even those advertised as "U.S. Made") is extracted by companies located in China, Japan, India, Belgium, Germany, Ireland, Sweden and Norway and shipped to U.S. distributors. As far as we can tell, this will be the first company to extract nicotine from US-grown tobacco within the U.S. and it is pure extract intended for labs and businesses, not for retail sale.

So there's the plan: to totally 'control the supply chain' (something "they" have proven they have the power to do in the past) so they can provide us all with a safe, "fully traceable, compliant, high-quality product" that only they are capable of providing.

But how in the world could they ever convince the "3 letter agencies' & politicians that this is necessary? (as if they have to convince them when they're all part of the same 'happy family')? After all, all the vendors of nic ALWAYS tell the truth about the source & origin of the nic they sell to the public, eh? NOPE, at least one of them LIES about the source/origin (claiming to be the only US extraction). But all of the vendors ALWAYS provide up-to-date, legitimate CoA's & testing for EVERY batch they sell, eh? With full disclosure of the same, eh?. NO THEY DON'T! And we don't demand it.

But there's a major piece missing that could be the excuse to detonate the bomb (and then lock everything into their control 'for our safety')...and that is people being harmed by all this unregulated foreign nicotine! Nobody has ever been harmed by all this nicotine floating around from all these countries...yet.

Anybody that believes a government and/or mega-corporation would never harm it's citizens in order to gain power & profit isn't up on their history. And while it may BE a conspiracy, it's certainly not a theory...it has been a reality in the past.

Of course, maybe a 'catastrophic event' big enough to convince all the players doesn't have to happen for "them" to take over & take control...but in the meantime, we're not vaping ANY nic that doesn't come from a supplier that fully tests and makes available a CoA for every batch they sell (to our knowledge, the only vendor that does that is NN...but there may be others).

One things for sure, after the plans are created & implemented (and multi-millions spent) by the 'big boys', the time for self-regulation and preventing the take-over is likely past. And if anyone is ever harmed by 'unregulated nic', it's definitely over...and we can kiss DIYing goodbye (unless of course, we have a stash).

:::sigh::: They were NOT going to roll-over-and-die and let the opportunity to snag millions of addicts/dollars pass them by 'unregulated'. But what a shame that when CASAA/individuals go into the arena to fight for our rights, they're going to be slaughtered ruthlessly with the evidence of the lies, inadequate testing & disclosure and sloppy methodology of the very vendors they're trying to defend. Shame on those vendors...and shame on us for supporting them.

Freedom...is never free.
 

JD1

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we2rcool

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I thought RTS was supposed to use nic made in one of the Carolinas. It's listed as 'Sourced in the USA' on their site.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...nicotine-certificate-not-china-india-etc.html

Edit: Ok, I guess the difference might be FDA tested. RTS does their own tests on the nic they purchase.

Edit again: My bad. RTS extracts their nic from tobacco purchased in N.Carolina.

So they say.

We see (just now checked) that RTS has changed their 'blurb' from the last time we checked (months ago). It used to say (and said for the 10 months we've been vaping -- well, back to 2011 as posted in Reviews of Suppliers Negative): "USA Extracted Liquid Nicotine" - which many ECFers have noticed & questioned. But now it says "USA Sourced Liquid Nicotine".

CASAA says there is no nicotine extracted in the USA at this time. Assuming CASAA knows/states the truth, then how is RTS getting 'USA Sourced'.

Of course, as noted by the OP, it could come from a US warehouse - that got it from another country.

The last we knew, RTS did not 'do their own testing' - they sent it 'out' for testing (also in Reviews of Suppliers Negative. RTS stated it was the 3rd highest expense in costs of operations...with nicotine extraction being #1). The CoA on their site now has NO DATE, NO BATCH #, and NO NAME OF LAB that did the testing. 'Not saying it wasn't a legitimate test (of whatever batch it may have been) - 'just saying we wouldn't trust ANYONE selling chemicals unless they had batch numbers, dates and the name of the lab that did the testing/certifying.
 

MasteroftheVape

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myfreedomsmokes, vermillion river supply and nicvape all source from the same lab in India according to a rep at the lab. The company is called NicSelect and is owned by Alchem and seems legit. I have been searching for the best sources of bulk nic cuz I make so much for friends/family... I should open a shop. I don't have a problem with nic made outside the US, i have a problem with the fact that most vendors won't tell you where they get it specifically. I think the most important thing for vendors as a whole is transparency to fend off the vapocolypse. I am sure there are legit labs in china that produce quality products but without transparency, who knows which ones?
 

we2rcool

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myfreedomsmokes, vermillion river supply and nicvape all source from the same lab in India according to a rep at the lab. The company is called NicSelect and is owned by Alchem and seems legit. I have been searching for the best sources of bulk nic cuz I make so much for friends/family... I should open a shop. I don't have a problem with nic made outside the US, i have a problem with the fact that most vendors won't tell you where they get it specifically. I think the most important thing for vendors as a whole is transparency to fend off the vapocolypse. I am sure there are legit labs in china that produce quality products but without transparency, who knows which ones?

Exactly!

For us, as long as it's properly tested & documented...we're good to go - no matter where it was extracted.

Every incoming batch should be tested - and that documentation should be public. Every bottle should be labelled with the batch number.

Check out Nude Nic (if you haven't already)! All their testing & purity data is online...and the price for 500ml of 100mg/ml nic is just $60.00. As you'll see by the reviews, the nic is CLEAN (virtually no odor/taste, which means we use less flavors - yay!). I've spoken to Jake (the owner) on the phone - and he's a wonderful guy. And I'd betcha he'd 'do you right' if you wanted to order 'bigger bulk' than what he offers online.

Thanks for posting great info about a very important issue!
 

MasteroftheVape

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Lol, contacted NicSelect about purchasing direct from them. Apparently to buy factory direct minimum order is 200 liters @ $75/liter of 100mg, or for those really trying to stock up, 200 liters of 99.9% nic @ $275.00/liter. Makes me wonder even more what is gained by keeping suppliers secret. You would have to be a serious player selling a ton of juice to even think about a minimum order like that. Theres no way a regular vape shop could go factory direct for supplies.
 

JD1

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............
The last we knew, RTS did not 'do their own testing' - they sent it 'out' for testing (also in Reviews of Suppliers Negative. RTS stated it was the 3rd highest expense in costs of operations...with nicotine extraction being #1). The CoA on their site now has NO DATE, NO BATCH #, and NO NAME OF LAB that did the testing. 'Not saying it wasn't a legitimate test (of whatever batch it may have been) - 'just saying we wouldn't trust ANYONE selling chemicals unless they had batch numbers, dates and the name of the lab that did the testing/certifying.

I should have said contracts their testing. But now I'm starting to wonder if they're still extracting from North Carolina grown tobacco. All I really know is that the nic I've got from them was good stuff, but if it's not produced in the US then I might as well search for a little better price.

Also, it's my understanding that Hangsen and some of the other China suppliers are using new state of the art extraction methods. I think I'll check out WL for my next nic order. I think their nic comes from China.
 

Youssefa

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Okay,

Alchem produces nicotine in india. But from seed to bottle, alchem owns and runs it all. Also they are fully USDA/FDA inspected at the source. So if the people that are inspecting in the US with US standards are on localtion in india doing the same inspection using the same standards... Why is that any diffent, or an issue?
 

Crunktanium

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Also they are fully USDA/FDA inspected at the source.

The problem is the nic from India tends to have less purity hence the bad odor many report. It might be ok to vape (nobody knows for certain) but China obviously has higher purity standards. Also I highly doubt the FDA is monitoring every batch of nic as the majority of production is for big tobacco. They use it to increase the nicotine level thus increasing the nicotine/cigarette dependency. And the FDA/USDA are not always on our side they tend to side with big pharma/business interests above all. Not to mention Chinese Tobacco according to one study contained the lowest levels of dioxin.

And here is an article straight from the horses mouth back in 2001 that mentions the smell everyone talks about.

The Indian Nicotine sulphate fetched a price of almost Rs.225 per kg during 1993 and 1994, when exports were the highest for the decade. United State was earlier importing Nicotine based products from India. The Indian Product suffered because of Kerosene smell in case of Nicotine Sulphate. The average US import price of Nicotine and its Salts was $130 per kg during 1997. A Chinese Supplier offers Nicotine 98% pure at $95 a kilo.

Nicotine and its Derivatives from Tobacco Waste
 

Youssefa

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This is 2014, companies survive and make profit by doing things better than they did in the past, they adapt to the market. You might as well say "eLiquid" contains antifeeze, because it was found back in 2007-9 in one companies products, So it all must have it and still must be present 5 years later. Do not use logical fallacies to make a point, it is weak. Unless you have 2013-14 data on impurities in India Nic then you are spouting propaganda and helping no one. Perpetuation of old information is how anti ecig groups continue give the baping community a bad name. Why on earth would you sink to the same level.
 

Crunktanium

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Unless you have 2013-14 data on impurities in India Nic then you are spouting propaganda and helping no one.

My data comes from the owner of Wizard Labs who has purchased the product from the source, tested it, and refused to sell it to his customers. Maybe you haven't been keeping up with all the complaints as of late about nic from India smelling of Rubber/Kerosene. I know half a dozen local vape shop owners and they all use one of only two nic suppliers partly for this very reason. One of them even refuses to use WL only because they can't meet his ever changing demand. If you feel comfortable vaping nic from India then more power to you. The point still stands as this was an issue with nic from India way back in 2001 and it's still an issue in 2014.

Unless you have data which should be easy to obtain in the year 2014 which proves otherwise?
 

LoveVanilla

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People are definitely giving false confidence to FDA regulation. Hell, 100,000 people with poisoned drinking water is not enough. Now maybe if a few hundred were to die... Meanwhile our government continues on it's hell-bent course of deregulation. One would think the 2008 banking meltdown might be enough to reconsider our current course? No? Well how about the recent FDA plan to turn over poultry inspections to the poultry producers? Does that inspire your confidence?

You know there's a simple saying that seems particularly sage in our current environment of rampant, sociopathic greed, "you get what you inspect".

---------

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

-- Albert Einstein
 
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aikanae1

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I find it interesting that some of the legislation that has been appearing lately includes the restriction that only "pharmecutical grade nicotine" can be used. It sounds like they are attempting a ban on imported nic and only the new US produced nic would be allowed. That would sure smell like a back door deal.

Tastes in nicotine vary too. Some like tasteless, some peppery, some like "gamey" as long as it passes the test. Although I don't think anyone like kerosene and I'm hoping that's an "oops" which will get cleared up quickly. It kinda disturbs me it was sent out at all. Still, I think I'd trust the current situation more than a single FDA approved US lab at 10x's the price.
 

Youssefa

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You know it really doesn't matter, FDA...USDA......EPA..... They are all corrupt. On one hand, FDA wants to allow poultry to "self regulate" and on the other hand says, Vape shops are incapable of self regulating and can't be trusted to sell to adults.... ... gives. I have not seen one single vape shop that sells to minor regardless of local or state laws. I still can't find any of this so called USA extracted nic that some vendors swear to have. bunch of lying crooks....
 
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