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No one really knows yet. The thing with china is that all the vape retailers seem to not be so honest on the customs forms so the carrier would have no idea if what's in the package is actually vape gear. And the return address never specifies the retailer's actual store name.
The next problem is going to be how US customs is gonna deal with it, if at all. Typically for small shipments, they probably just spot check. For the most part, the seizures that have happened all these years have mostly been large, wholesale shipments. Time will tell.
Is China going to say screw it and not ship to the USA at all? We'll see close to the cutt-off date if retailers are gonna change anything.
I'm subscribed to at least a dozen different chinese vape retailers' newsletters and so far I've not heard anything about it from any of them.
Probably Nothing. And your Package will get to you when it get's to you.
Or... You might get a 19 CFR § 162.92
LOL
Depends on Customs and how much is seized. If they start catching a lot of stuff, we could very well see the Chinese connection dry up.
If they wanted to do that I'm sure they could find a way. They could find one package containing vape gear and send the seller a warning. Or threaten to start checking all their packages and cause major delays. Then there are likely to be some anti-tobacco warriors ordering gear from China and publicising it.
Customs could have 50 times the number of staff they have now and still only scratch the surface of what comes in. It has to depend on how important vape is to them and how much pressure they get from the political side.
And herein lies the issue 10 small companies have already got letters that they are selling things that never submitted a PMTA and therefore are in violation and have been asked to explain themselves to me it looks like they might be setting up to make an example of them. Of course that's just speculation. But it isn't like that's a foreign concept. On top of that I personally again speculation feel that they are not going to approve much of anything and the things that would be approved would probably be items that cannot be tampered with. And likely tobacco flavor only. I would absolutely love for the FDA to start coming out and telling alcoholics that the way to treat alcoholism is to simply drink not alcoholic beer because it's pretty much what they're telling us. Unless convenience stores start carrying a variety of e-cigarette options I seriously doubt any vape shop is going to be able to stay open based on PMTA but that's again just my speculation I see no reason why they would support or promote any of the products that are out there. They'll make it look like they're keeping freedom alive by approving three different tobacco related products or some other crap. Not surprisingly they're already getting their way smoking is on the up both amongst adults and kids
I used to think proprietary pod systems might squeak through. Now I tend to think if anything gets through it is going to be a BT offering and that is a big IF. If Anything does get through it will be taxed to a point that makes smoking cheaper. So many people out there have bought the big lie and really do believe vaping is worse than smoking. We will get no public support. I actually had a woman yell out her car window at me "I can't wait till all you vapers get EVALI and die and stop endangering my kids!" Yeah big facepalm on my part but that is the attitude out there. Vaping is pretty well hosed.
There's no way they can do it without the cooperation of the Chinese vendors. Think of the millions of packages that go through USPS from China each day, from companies such as Amazon, Ebay, Alibaba, Wish, just to name a few. There would have to be a whole army of inspectors just to begin to make a dent in the flow of ecig related products. They got their hands full right now with opioids being smuggled in via USPS. You might lose an occasional package, but that would be an exception, not the norm. If China decides to cooperate, then it's a different situation. The payment situation is still an issue too, with PayPal and credit cards not wanting to be involved.
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FastTech has a notice on their website about shipping to countries that have banned e-cigs, the U.S. is now listed as one of those countries. It says you must first contact customer support before you order and that shipments may or may not make it through customs in your country. This seems to indicate they're willing to try but it's likely going to be at your personal risk. I'm OK with that but am fully stocked up so not sure what else I might need/want down the road.
That's been there since about October and I've placed about 6 orders with them since then since without having to contact customer support.
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I haven't been around here much lately, but I heard there is a concern about 18650 batteries. Anyone know anything about this?
It's odd that UPS will deliver ammunition right to your door, but not a bottle of nic juice or some coils. In over 10 years of vaping, I have yet to set foot in a brick and mortar vape store. Not even sure where one is. That may all change in 6 years when I run out of stock. If I can still drive by then, LOL. B + M stores that have survived are about to see a huge up tick in business.
If they do, it'll likely be pretty short lived. Only products that have had a PMTA application submitted to the FDA by the deadline, are technically allowed to still be sold in B&M shops. The FDA is already contacting and lowering the boom on companies who are still making and/or selling products that didn't have PMTAs submitted at all for those products, or not by the deadline. As they processes the PMTAs that were submitted, and accept or reject them...there will likely be fewer and fewer products that remain on the market for the B&M shops to sell.
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That's been talked about but like a lot of other issues nothing is certain. Some of the battery manufacturers are putting disclaimers on their product pages about vaping. But they are widely used for flashlights and some other products so it would be a big deal if the Gov stopped retail sales of 18650s. There must be millions of flashlights out there that use them, I doubt the Gov would risk making them all worthless just to cut off vaping use. I have no idea what percentage of 18650 sales are to vapers, it may be a small part of the retail market. My guess is it won't happen.
I think that might be the most frustrating part for me. So much of everything is guesswork. Maybe this will be obtainable and maybe not. We can make a somewhat educated guess but that is it. Even if 18650s are not completely banned there is always the chance they vanish from pure obsolescence as newer battery techs develop. It will never be completely secure. Which is why even though I do not like larger mods I have invested in a bunch of mods that use a range of battery sizes. Still subject to obsolescence but maybe slightly more secure for a longer period of time. I also if I had to could probably build a mod. I'd hate doing it but I made it my business to learn how years ago.
I'm curious if we'll see "Shipping Ban" sales cropping up all over the place just ahead of the ban.
I felt confident that 18650's would be available for a long time but ended up getting a few 21700 devices just in case. I may have more than 10 years left!
Me too.
The threat of 18650 batts being banned for consumer purchase in the USA doesn't just center around vaping, that's just part of the optics they use in some cases because it helps in gaining public support for such a ban. People won't support a ban on batteries, that sounds absurd to them. They will, however, support a ban on batteries used to consume a tobacco product.
The actual argument for banning these batteries for consumer purchaseing is that they were never intended to be sold as a consumer product and, unlike the traditional consumer batteries sold in every store, are very dangerous if mishandled and misused.
If you watch LG's videos they use for their "Don't buy it. Don't sell it. Stay safe." campaign, while the imagery includes vape users, it's really about any users in general. The campaign in general is not specific about use of the batteries in one type of product or by one type of consumer, it's about all consumer usage of such batteries. And I'll be quite honest here, they bring up legit concerns.
Also, on their Don't buy it. "Don't sell it. Stay safe." campaign website, they advise to not sell or buy "bare batteries". They don't mean batteries without a wrap, they mean any battery that isn't enclosed in a power unit with a protection circuit.
"We are committed to working with our Partners, US and global regulators, industry trade associations, consumer advocates and other stakeholders to prevent the use of bare cells by consumers and to share information about consumer safety."
Also, I saw a thread here on ECF a while ago where someone posted proof that Samsung is working with congress to work a ban on consumer sales of these cells. I don't have time to look for it right now, but maybe later.
If they can successfully convince politicians (with generous incentives) that these are not consumer-grade batteries and we need to "protect children" and should not be allowed to be in the hands of consumers unless in a protected battery pack, I have no doubt we could see a ban on the sale of such batteries to consumers in our lifetimes.
If I had to place a bet on whether these types of sells would be banned for consumer sale, I'd place my bet that it will happen.
The highly doubt government cares if my 18650 flashlight becomes unusable/obsolete because I can't obtain batteries for it when they know I can just replace it with a bajillion other flashlights on the market that take consumer batteries sold everywhere.
Any first responders that use these flashlights that take lithium batteries will possibly be given an avenue to buy such batteries through their organization's procurement department at a 10-30x the cost that we pay now.
The actual argument for banning these batteries for consumer purchaseing is that they were never intended to be sold as a consumer product and, unlike the traditional consumer batteries sold in every store, are very dangerous if mishandled and misused.
If you watch LG's videos they use for their "Don't buy it. Don't sell it. Stay safe." campaign, while the imagery includes vape users, it's really about any users in general. The campaign in general is not specific about use of the batteries in one type of product or by one type of consumer, it's about all consumer usage of such batteries. And I'll be quite honest here, they bring up legit concerns.
Also, on their Don't buy it. "Don't sell it. Stay safe." campaign website, they advise to not sell or buy "bare batteries". They don't mean batteries without a wrap, they mean any battery that isn't enclosed in a power unit with a protection circuit.
"We are committed to working with our Partners, US and global regulators, industry trade associations, consumer advocates and other stakeholders to prevent the use of bare cells by consumers and to share information about consumer safety."
Also, I saw a thread here on ECF a while ago where someone posted proof that Samsung is working with congress to work a ban on consumer sales of these cells. I don't have time to look for it right now, but maybe later.
If they can successfully convince politicians (with generous incentives) that these are not consumer-grade batteries and we need to "protect children" and should not be allowed to be in the hands of consumers unless in a protected battery pack, I have no doubt we could see a ban on the sale of such batteries to consumers in our lifetimes.
If I had to place a bet on whether these types of sells would be banned for consumer sale, I'd place my bet that it will happen.
The highly doubt government cares if my 18650 flashlight becomes unusable/obsolete because I can't obtain batteries for it when they know I can just replace it with a bajillion other flashlights on the market that take consumer batteries sold everywhere.
Any first responders that use these flashlights that take lithium batteries will possibly be given an avenue to buy such batteries through their organization's procurement department at a 10-30x the cost that we pay now.
There is already more and more sealed 18650 flashlights, bike lights, etc on the market. When the battery dies the light is junk, and they all have onboard charging circuits. I agree that if the industry pushes for it, these bare cells will vanish, and it could happen quickly. The consumer product safety commission could also step in, especially if the battery MFG.'s are on board. Ecigs are just a handy whipping boy to highlight the issue. All of the obsolete products that use these bare cells doesn't concern the government, obsolescence will drive more consumerism therefore more tax revenue.
Of course, there likely will exist a grey market because these cells need to be sold bare to companies building packs for everything imaginable, and also for researchers and developers designing new products in all manner of venues. I don't think they will go away completely, but I do believe they will take more effort to obtain down the road.
Of course, there likely will exist a grey market because these cells need to be sold bare to companies building packs for everything imaginable, and also for researchers and developers designing new products in all manner of venues. I don't think they will go away completely, but I do believe they will take more effort to obtain down the road.
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