US shipping cutoff dates - USPS, Fedex & UPS

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Katya

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USPS to Publish Proposed Rule Implementing VapeMail Ban on Friday 2/19/21

Public Inspection: Treatment of E-Cigarettes in the Mail

OK, so it's been published. :facepalm:

Treatment of E-Cigarettes in the Mail

If anyone can translate this into English, please do so.

"Effective Date of Eventual Final Rule
Particularities here merit a brief discussion of the timing of the eventual final rule, in the interest of providing stakeholders with advance information. Section 603(a) of the Act requires the Postal Service “promulgate regulations to clarify the applicability of the prohibition on mailing of cigarettes” to ENDS not later than 120 days after enactment (i.e., April 26, 2021). Section 603(b) provides that the prohibition will apply to mailings of ENDS “on and after” the publication date of the final rule. In specifying this immediate effective date, Congress expressly abrogated the standard 30-day notice period for a final rule under the Administrative Procedure Act (APA), which would otherwise apply to rulemakings concerning the mailability statute here. 5 U.S.C. 553(d), 559; 39 U.S.C. 3001(m). To the extent that this rulemaking concerns not only the mailing prohibition referenced in the Act, but also the application of exemptions from that prohibition, the APA permits those aspects of the eventual final rule likewise to take effect with less than 30 days' notice (e.g., immediately upon publication). 5 U.S.C. 553(d)(1)."

Also,

"This document has a comment period that ends in 31 days. (03/22/2021)SUBMIT A FORMAL COMMENT "

Now what?
 

YoursTruli

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It looks like they are giving (whomever desires to) until March 22nd to comment before making the final ruling.

Prohibition will apply to mailings of ENDS “on and after” the publication date of the final rule. In specifying this immediate effective date, Congress expressly abrogated the standard 30-day notice period for a final rule under the Administrative Procedure Act (APA)... To me this sounds like the day the final ruling is published it is in effect.

not later than 120 days after enactment (i.e., April 26, 2021)... and that final ruling has to be before April 26th
 

CAAB

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It looks like they are giving (whomever desires to) until March 22nd to comment before making the final ruling.

Prohibition will apply to mailings of ENDS “on and after” the publication date of the final rule. In specifying this immediate effective date, Congress expressly abrogated the standard 30-day notice period for a final rule under the Administrative Procedure Act (APA)... To me this sounds like the day the final ruling is published it is in effect.

not later than 120 days after enactment (i.e., April 26, 2021)... and that final ruling has to be before April 26th

That's how I'm reading it too. By no means am I an expert, but it seems like what's been published so far is a proposal which is open for a comment period, after which it will become official policy. As seen in the document details section on the right column:

Dates:
We must receive your comments on or before March 22, 2021.
Comments Close:
03/22/2021
Document Type:
Proposed Rule

Now I don't know how these things work, but I imagine they actually need time to review the comments, so I am guessing that it doesn't become a rule right on March 22, unless of course they are just allowing comments as a formality only and intend on making it official policy immediately after the comment period closes.
 

DaveP

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That's been talked about but like a lot of other issues nothing is certain. Some of the battery manufacturers are putting disclaimers on their product pages about vaping. But they are widely used for flashlights and some other products so it would be a big deal if the Gov stopped retail sales of 18650s. There must be millions of flashlights out there that use them, I doubt the Gov would risk making them all worthless just to cut off vaping use. I have no idea what percentage of 18650 sales are to vapers, it may be a small part of the retail market. My guess is it won't happen.

I have a small collection of flashlights that use 18650 cells. I can't see lithium cells being restricted. If they want to curb vaping it makes more sense to control vape mods and juice. I probably have enough 100mg nic and mods to last me the rest of my life.
 

DaveP

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Been absent from ECF for a while. Celebrating 10 years this month (shamless, I know). Here is the solution to the shipping imposition: Vendors do not have to claim the contents of their packages. So long as vape vendors will ship discretely, without mention of affiliation (basic return address [no branding]), the shipping services have very little concern with the contents (unless and accident occurs).

I'm fairly stocked. I will invest in another gal of nic before the deadline, but otherwise, batteries, wire, wick, flavors, PG/VG can be had. It's a shame it has come to this, though.

Don't forget this all started because of the DemonRatic states' Ponzi scheme following the 1990 tobacco settlement.

Honestly, I love being able to vape and am sad at this topic. In reality, I'm scared for the world, more, because we're all in this handbasket together. Economy is teetering. Guns are on the edge of being outlawed. Rioting over emotionally charged propaganda. Oh, and a "terrible flu" is going around. At least my soul is happy. Sorry for the off topic. God bless, y'all! I'll be around...

I have 3 liters of nic in the freezer broken down into glass Boston Rounds bottles. At the 8ml to 10ml of 3mg/ml a day that I vape at 10W, it will last along time.
 
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Rathamar

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I have 3 liters of nic in the freezer broken down into glass Boston Rounds bottles. At the 8ml to 10ml of 3mg/ml a day that I vape at 10W, it will last along time.

I have 5 litters (plus 2 100ml bottles) in the freezer. At my 10ml/6mg daily consumption, that will last until I am in my mid 70's. If I drop to 3mg, that will last until I am in my mid 90's. So i am ready.

Anyone who wants to can use the Vapocalypse Calculator to estimate out your needs.
 
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JCinFLA

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Now what?

Looks to me like the only thing we know now...that we didn't know yesterday...was that comments will be allowed until March 22, 2021. That means the new policies won't take effect until at least March 23, 2021 at the earliest.

However, if they "play fairly"...they'll actually take awhile to review the comments and make any revisions to the proposed rules/policies before they publish the final ones.

Then again...when has any agency, government entity, etc. "played fairly" with anything to do with vaping.

Personally, I'm going to use March 1st as the final cut-off date to have vape related things ordered from US vendors. (That wouldn't include VG, PG, flavorings, or other things we use that aren't vaping specific though.) That would allow 3 weeks for packages (even those that at times take the scenic route for a week or 2) to be delivered by the March 22nd closing date for comments. I'm not going to order any more from overseas vendors at all though. I'll recommend that date to people I'm still working with on getting stocked up, too.
 
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zoiDman

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OK, so it's been published. :facepalm:

Treatment of E-Cigarettes in the Mail

If anyone can translate this into English, please do so.

"Effective Date of Eventual Final Rule
Particularities here merit a brief discussion of the timing of the eventual final rule, in the interest of providing stakeholders with advance information. Section 603(a) of the Act requires the Postal Service “promulgate regulations to clarify the applicability of the prohibition on mailing of cigarettes” to ENDS not later than 120 days after enactment (i.e., April 26, 2021). Section 603(b) provides that the prohibition will apply to mailings of ENDS “on and after” the publication date of the final rule. In specifying this immediate effective date, Congress expressly abrogated the standard 30-day notice period for a final rule under the Administrative Procedure Act (APA), which would otherwise apply to rulemakings concerning the mailability statute here. 5 U.S.C. 553(d), 559; 39 U.S.C. 3001(m). To the extent that this rulemaking concerns not only the mailing prohibition referenced in the Act, but also the application of exemptions from that prohibition, the APA permits those aspects of the eventual final rule likewise to take effect with less than 30 days' notice (e.g., immediately upon publication). 5 U.S.C. 553(d)(1)."

Also,

"This document has a comment period that ends in 31 days. (03/22/2021)SUBMIT A FORMAL COMMENT "

Now what?

As I understand it, this is How this Particular Process would normally have work.

1) Congress, via the passage of Legislation/signed by the President, instructs the USPS to Change a Regulation regarding the Mailing e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids. The Regulation Changes made by the USPS must be in effect no later than 120 Days from the Legislation becoming Law.

2) The USPS creates a Proposed Change to Regulations.

3) The USPS then Publishes this Proposed Change of Regulations in the Federal Registry providing a Comment Period of No Less than 30 Days.

4) After the 30 Day Comment Period is over, the USPS files the Final Changes to the Regulation with the Federal Registry. And the Effective Date of the Changes to the Regulations would Not occur in Less than 30 Days from the filing of the Final Rule with the Federal Registry.

5) All this is Suppose to occur within 120 Days (as per the wording in the Legislation) of the the Initial Signing into Law of the Legislation.

But it appears that Congress specifically "Abrogated" the Effective Date occurring "Not Less than 30 Days after the Final Changes to the Regulations is Published in the Federal Registry".

And they were able to do so because of this...

(d) The required publication or service of a substantive rule shall be made not less than 30 days before its effective date, except—

(1) a substantive rule which grants or recognizes an exemption or relieves a restriction;
(2) interpretative rules and statements of policy; or
(3) as otherwise provided by the agency for good cause found and published with the rule.

U.S.C. Title 5 - GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATION AND EMPLOYEES

So where we are is in the Comment Phase. And that Phase will end on 3-22-21

After 3-22-21, the USPS can Publish the Final Changes to the Regulations. And those Changes could be Effective any time after the Date of Publication. Including Effective Immediately.

So in a Worst Case Scenario, these e-Cigarette/e-Liquid USPS Bans could be In Effect on or about 3-23-21.

Like I said... this is How I Understand it. But @kristin is the one who should Confirm or Clarify this.
 

Katya

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Like I said... this is How I Understand it. But @kristin is the one who should Confirm or Clarify this.

She responded to my question in CASAA's forum:

I think the board is still reviewing it for clarification. It IS kind of vague. I linked to your question for Alex and the board to see.

Alex IS working on a Call to Action for the vape mail comments. It won't be up before Monday, though, because CASAA is also seeking clarification. There will be some info on the Call to Action page letting people know what to do on their own until CASAA can get everything verified. As soon as I have a link to the initial Call to Action, I will share it here!
 

Katya

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Looks to me like the only thing we know now...that we didn't know yesterday...was that comments will be allowed until March 22, 2021. That means the new policies won't take effect until at least March 23, 2021 at the earliest.

So in a Worst Case Scenario, these e-Cigarette/e-Liquid USPS Bans could be In Effect on or about 3-23-21.

Yeah, it looks like the cutoff date will be somewhere between March 23 and April 26.
 

zoiDman

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She responded to my question in CASAA's forum:

Yeah... Hopefully she has some Inside Info on the USPS's plans.

Just Me. But we Don't seem to get Many even breaks. And the Wheels are Starting to Come Off. So if Anyone is still Buying, I would do it Sooner than Later.
 

YoursTruli

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Yeah it would/will be less worrisome knowing the exact mail ban date. My mind has shifted from buy before "this date" to buy before months end to avoid in transit purchases from being seized and destroyed by the post office at the stroke of final rule publishing midnight :eek: fines... prison time... I don't photograph well... :D really some mad evil genius spent many a night searching deep for this loophole to do what antz groups and States (who lost their tobacco revenue) haven't been able to accomplish all these past years.
 
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UncLeJunkLe

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to avoid in transit purchases from being seized and destroyed by the post office at the stroke of final rule publishing midnight :eek: fines... prison time

As far as USPS seizing domestic shipments, they can't. "Tobacco products" aren't illegal products, just restricted.

As far as I understand, the only party that has any chance of getting a fine is the carrier and the carrier's employee if they are caught not following the rules set forth for shipment and delivery of "tobacco products".
 

YoursTruli

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Nonmailable cigarettes and smokeless tobacco deposited in the mail are subject to seizure and forfeiture. 18 U.S.C. 1716E(c). Senders of nonmailable cigarettes or smokeless tobacco are subject to criminal fines, imprisonment, and civil penalties, in addition to enforcement under other federal, state, and local laws. Id. at (d), (e), (h).

Treatment of E-Cigarettes in the Mail
 

UncLeJunkLe

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@UncleJunkle Maybe I am misunderstanding


NO, maybe I am. I am confusing personal consumer to consumer shipments. I guess you're right. Using USPS is illegal come the final date for B2C shipments. UPS and Fedex are legal, they just choose not to ship. My bad.

Worse than I thought. So glad I don't have to worry about it other than my recent Fasttech orders. I'll let you know what prison is like :confused:
 

Territoo

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    The other thing, if some is in transit on the DAY, which ever day they choose, will they go ahead and let that package go on through? I mean it wasn't illegal to mail it two days previously, but it sits in a service center for one day, then is in transit for another day, then another service center.....
     

    zoiDman

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    As far as USPS seizing domestic shipments, they can't. "Tobacco products" aren't illegal products, just restricted.

    As far as I understand, the only party that has any chance of getting a fine is the carrier and the carrier's employee if they are caught not following the rules set forth for shipment and delivery of "tobacco products".

    In this case, the USPS is the [Common] Carrier. So I Don't see them getting Fined.

    It would be the "Sender" if they are a Business. Or, possibly, the Sender and the Recipient if both are Private Individuals.

    Anyway you Slice it, you send a Non-Mailable item or are on the Receiving end of a Non-Mailable it, Rots of Ruck getting it back if the USPS Catches It.
     
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