US Vape Mail Ban - USPS/FedEx/UPS/DHL

[UncLeJunkLe]

A small snip from the article but a powerful argument by the other vaping industry....
"The inclusion of the term “other substances” in the PACT Act definition of ENDS was likely intended by its drafters to capture formulations of e-liquids containing tobacco or nicotine that sophisticated lawyers for the tobacco industry would argue are outside of the FDA’s framework under the TCA. The vapor market is very popular among young people and the whole premise of the PACT Act is preventing underage tobacco sales and the avoidance of tobacco taxes. The PACT Act definition of ENDS goes beyond the TCA’s definition of ENDS, and it seems lawmakers wanted to target the e-cigarette industry. But lawmakers failed to read the fine print, as the ENDS definition that they came up with is totally inconsistent with the FDA’s Deeming Rule."

Tanks, and I agree with that. This is going to get interesting...because I don't own any ENDS hardware

 

[zoiDman]

in a word ...
Pretty much sums it up:
PACT Act Update: USPS Delays Ban On Mailing Vape Products - The Fresh Toast

A small snip from the article but a powerful argument by the other vaping industry....
"The inclusion of the term “other substances” in the PACT Act definition of ENDS was likely intended by its drafters to capture formulations of e-liquids containing tobacco or nicotine that sophisticated lawyers for the tobacco industry would argue are outside of the FDA’s framework under the TCA. The vapor market is very popular among young people and the whole premise of the PACT Act is preventing underage tobacco sales and the avoidance of tobacco taxes. The PACT Act definition of ENDS goes beyond the TCA’s definition of ENDS, and it seems lawmakers wanted to target the e-cigarette industry. But lawmakers failed to read the fine print, as the ENDS definition that they came up with is totally inconsistent with the FDA’s Deeming Rule."

Agreed.

One also has to put in context what, Exactly, is the PACT Act?

The PACT Act is an Amendment to the Jenkins Act. And it is being Argued that there was Never Any Intent, or Statutory Authority Granted, by the Jenkins Act to Restrict THC or CBD Markets.

Including Deemed e-Liquids that are Made or Derived from Tobacco might Not be a Reach anymore. Because of their FDA "Tobacco Product" designation.

But a Clearo or what a Clearo screws into? Those Aren't "Tobacco Products".

 

[YoursTruli]

If only we were as powerful as the "other" vaping industry, this would not be happening to us, but, money talks. And yes I fully believe this is the reason for the vape mail ban delay too. If you read that article in total (written by "a" lawyer) you will too

 

[zoiDman]

I never saw this mentioned before. Last I heard in this thread, USPS spokesperson is basically saying that final rule has not dropped because of lack of time/resources.

The U.S. Postal Service is delaying a ban on sending vape products in the mail, saying the agency needs more time to review how to implement the changes ordered by Congress.

The ban was supposed to take effect Monday and apply to all vape companies, even those shipping products without nicotine.

A number of hemp and marijuana vape operators have said the change will severely harm their businesses.
The ban was adopted late last year to reduce access to vape products and could eliminate direct-to-consumer vape shipping.

But a Postal Service spokesman told MJBizDaily Monday that USPS isn’t yet ready to implement the final rule.

“Despite our best efforts, in order to ensure thorough and thoughtful consideration of the complex issues and voluminous comments by industry, individual, and governmental stakeholders, the Postal Service is unable to publish a final rule by today’s target date,” spokesman David P. Coleman said in an email.

Coleman said the USPS would finalize the rule “as soon as possible.”

“Mailers should be prepared for implementation upon publication anytime,” he said.

MJBizdaily
​

Also, as far as I know, USPS doesn't ban anything because USPS doesn't make postal laws - it all goes through Congress.

My Magic Eight Ball says that there is Likely going to be Exceptions for the THC/CBD Markets. Just How Many or in what Form? The Magic Eight Ball wasn't Clear.

But with the way the current Political Winds are Blowing, it wouldn't Surprise me if there were.

 

[zoiDman]

in a word ...
Pretty much sums it up:
PACT Act Update: USPS Delays Ban On Mailing Vape Products - The Fresh Toast

A small snip from the article but a powerful argument by the other vaping industry....
"The inclusion of the term “other substances” in the PACT Act definition of ENDS was likely intended by its drafters to capture formulations of e-liquids containing tobacco or nicotine that sophisticated lawyers for the tobacco industry would argue are outside of the FDA’s framework under the TCA. The vapor market is very popular among young people and the whole premise of the PACT Act is preventing underage tobacco sales and the avoidance of tobacco taxes. The PACT Act definition of ENDS goes beyond the TCA’s definition of ENDS, and it seems lawmakers wanted to target the e-cigarette industry. But lawmakers failed to read the fine print, as the ENDS definition that they came up with is totally inconsistent with the FDA’s Deeming Rule."

BTW - This is also Why many people believe that Feinstein's Bill was never taken up in House. Even thought it Passed the Senate via "Unanimous Consent".

The Wording was Too Vague. And it Stepped on toes of some of Feinstein's Parties base.

 

[YoursTruli]

If they are going by the deeming ENDS definition as good argument (and it is) isn't hardware included in that? I figure that's how they are blanketing us. I always wondered why that wasn't challanged, hardware as a tobacco product, maybe it was I dunno, it feels like we just stepped back let it all happen and complained later. Will it get worse for vapers? Probably...likely

 

[zoiDman]

If they are going by the deeming ENDS definition as good argument (and it is) isn't hardware included in that? I figure that's how they are blanketing us. ...

Therein Lies the Catch-22.

If the FDA's Blanket Approach is used, many THC/CBD products will be Swept into things. And that Wasn't the Intent.

So instead of Congress going back and Fixing things by clarifying Exactly what was their Intent, they are going to Throw it Over the Fence and let the USPS publish a Rule that is (probably) based on Selective Enforcement.

 

[Opinionated]

Is that really a thing, buyer privacy, anymore? I swear anytime I buy anything online I get a million like ads... I assume big brother is watching too

Yeah I know... I can't even buy a bra without seeing 100 bra ads for days after...

It's like wow... just crazy. I'd rather Google not know my measurements thank you!

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Yeah I know... I can't even buy a bra without seeing 100 bra ads for days after...

It's like wow... just crazy. I'd rather Google not know my measurements thank you!

Ad blockers solve this problem.

 

[zoiDman]

Ad blockers solve this problem.

AdBlockPlus has Blocked over 1.5 Million Items for me.

8 on this Page Alone!

 

[Opinionated]

Ad blockers solve this problem.

It blocks us seeing how much information the world has on us... but not the information itself.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Good ad blockers don't just stop you from seeing ads, they block trackers as well. Lots you can do to keep your data at least fairly private with a good ad blocker, browser and browser settings. But the down side is that some things can be rendered useless or not as convenient. It's a trade-off. You have to decide how tight a rope you're willing to work with.

uBlock Origin - Free, open-source ad content blocker.

https://www.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/

 

[MLEJ]

But after vapor taxes for states that have one, it can get expensive. Then you throw in the reporting of my purchase data to the feds (IIUC) and I'm out. But that's just me.

It's not just you.

 

[low_tar_neil]

Head up to those in Minnesota, yesterday your local tobacco department has done a 180 and decided that out of state business can no longer get a license to do business there, and what's more they are now saying that tax is 95% of the retail price (this is not what the law says). From our point of view we have had to temporarily suspend shipping there while this is sorted out, but we are seeking legal advice on how to proceed, I don't expect it to be sorted any time soon.

 

[YoursTruli]

Head up to those in Minnesota, yesterday your local tobacco department has done a 180 and decided that out of state business can no longer get a license to do business there, and what's more they are now saying that tax is 95% of the retail price (this is not what the law says). From our point of view we have had to temporarily suspend shipping there while this is sorted out, but we are seeking legal advice on how to proceed, I don't expect it to be sorted any time soon.

Thank you for keeping us up to date with the latest it's much appreciated With all the craziness and rumors flying around it is great to get informed information.

 

[low_tar_neil]

Thank you for keeping us up to date with the latest it's much appreciated With all the craziness and rumors flying around it is great to get informed information.

Most welcome!

Also, in a reversal it looks like GA may be about to allow out of state online sellers again, after our arguments about their position being unconstitutional have made it to the AG's desk, fingers crossed!

 

[low_tar_neil]

Thank you for keeping us up to date with the latest it's much appreciated With all the craziness and rumors flying around it is great to get informed information.

Most welcome!

Also, in a reversal it looks like GA may be about to allow out of state online sellers again, after our arguments about their position being unconstitutional have made it to the AG's desk, fingers crossed!

 

[Bronze]

 

[BNEAT]

double liked

 

[YoursTruli]

So... after 3 months of waiting one of my packages from Fast Track finally arrived, well kinda. It looked like it had been run over by a truck, literally, run over by a truck complete with black tire treademark, ripped open, some contents missing and what remained of the contents smashed. So I sent Fast Track a response on my open ticket complete with pictures of the damage and the response was We are sorry can you send legible pictures..... What?!!! I attached multiple pictures all legible of the damage nevermind they did not even bother to address the missing items ...I give up. Never again. And I still have another FT package floating around for out there undelivered for 3 months...