Value for money

[kramerica2]

Value for money from a non-US/UK/EU user thoughts:

I've started with the really cheap e-cigar from DX, just to see what to whole e-smoking thing was about. I liked the idea and started looking for a permanent device. Like everyone, I was looking for the best value, but due to my location, my options were quite limited. After quite a lot of research, I've settled on a generic DSE-801 from Wayne. It's performance in terms of vapour volume and throat hit, are more than enough for me, so I'll sum up 3 months of e-smoking in terms of money, not including carts or liquid.
The starter kit cost 20£ including shipping, and comes with 1 atomizer, 2 batteries and a charger. I've added 3 atomizers and 2 batteries, so the final price including shipping was ~40£. 3 months later, I'm still using the first 2 batteries and the second atomizer. According to Wayne, shipping of 3 atomizers would cost 12£ and 2 batteries would cost the same. From my short experience, I can estimate that the first year would cost about 65£ including shipping, without claiming warranty at all. I think that's the best value u can get considering all factors, especially shipping charges.

 

[PeteMcArthur]

I'm probably going to regret this as I'm a piece loving soul

Full disclosure :- I own a screwdriver and all the Smokesters products. I used to own a KB and Bling but have since sold them.

Is there not an error being made with the calculations? The Sedansa and Bling purchase costs are being written off over 5 years. The rest have been written off over one year. Unless you expect the screwdriver to fall apart after 12 months (I think that is very unlikely) the costs are skewed in favour of the Sedansa.

 

[Kate]

Yes Pete, you have a point.

Would you like to give a fairer costing for the Screwdriver, I am not aware of some of the costs or guarantee conditions so I'm not best placed to work it out.

 

[PeteMcArthur]

Yes I know Trog does not give an up front warranty, just that he will abide by the relevant laws. That's his call, I'm not sure if he is right. I can only give my opinion that because of the construction and quality I would expect it to last for many years.

The batteries are incredibly cheap. I bought 4 with a charger on eBay for less then £10. They get even cheaper if you buy 10 at a time.

Yes Pete, you have a point.

Would you like to give a fairer costing for the Screwdriver, I am not aware of some of the costs or guarantee conditions so I'm not best placed to work it out.

 

[Kate]

I thought the batteries would be cheap, it's hardly worth worrying about the price of them. I use Dealextreme batteries for my USB cable for my Kissbox and it's significantly reduced my expected running costs.

I don't want to get into an argument about the guarantee, Trog has every right to make whatever arrangements suit him and his customers best as far as I'm concerned. However, the fact is that I don't know what a statutory guarantee covers in real terms, that's why I tend to ask for clarification when it's brought up. When I look at buying an esmoking product I want to know what is covered by guarantee, for how long and if there are any special terms or exemptions.

As I said, if vagueness works for the people making the contract then it's fine by me but it's hard to get an accurate idea of the cost.

 

[trog100]

kate the UK consumers law is not vague kate.. and your anti me bias is getting a little too obvious..

and if u would rather believe a chinese ebay guarantee that really is not worth the cyberspace it occupies u really are in La La land..

plus when the product u sell actually does what its supposed to do the guarantee isnt that important.. it is of course when product failure comes built in with what u buy..

how cheap DX batteries are isnt really important either.. a year should pass before pete has to buy any more.. something else that dosnt come with built in failure.. the batteries.. a few come DOA but we dont ship those.. we actually do test what we send out.. as for the cheap chinese charger.. well pete did the wise thing and bought a spare one.. we would recommend all our user to do the same..

trog

ps.. if our advice on our support forums is followed our device will be the cheapest to run long term there is.. and we really dont give a sh-t if u believe us or not..

demand will far exceed our ability to supply the things anyway.. the main product fault.. we wont be able to supply enough of them..

 

[Kate]

You are the most shifty salesman I've ever come across Trog, I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw you.

If the terms of your guarantee are not vague then what is your problem with spelling them out. It would be very useful for those of us who are not clued up on UK consumer law.

I think your claims of the Screwdriver being cheaper are exaggerated. I stand to be corrected if you show me the figures.

 

[trog100]

how can i come up with figures that dont exist kate.. in a years time i might be able to come up with some..

i am not shifty kate.. i am also not a saleman.. i dont like the buggers.. he he

basically if someone buys a product from me they have to take my word for it being what it is.. if they show doubt as to what i say being true.. i would tell them to go away and buy something else..

UK consumer law has some value.. nothing much else does except the word of the seller.. UK consumer law only apples in the UK.. we have demand from america.. these buyers will have to put trust in me.. bullsh-t guarantees are not worth anything in reality.. which is why i wont demean myself by doling them out..

when u have a product people want they will beat path to your door to get it.. it dosnt need "salemen".. and i aint one.. simple as that..

u can now add "arrogant" to your list of trog insult words.. just call me an "arrogant old sad racist thug"..

trog

 

[ApOsTle51]

i reckon you gotta look at the screwdriver like this :

A guy knocks something up in his garden shed..great it works like it's meant to. He knows others would like a device like his so he spends a few long nights down the end of the garden in his shed making a few more to sell on e-bay, the same guy probably not listed as a buisness seller ( my guess ) so no guarantee's there.

some people want one of these devices, they gotta look at the fact it's this chap still knocking them up in his garden shed or garage in his spare time or retirement, the people that buy these know they are being knocked up by this bloke in his garden shed so shouldn't really expect any gaurentee or support.

Trog isn't a true supplier in my mind , just a hobbiest. I bet he's not paying any tax on the money made from his screwdriver sales or claiming tax back on raw products needed for the manufacture and that's his buisness.

He certainly isnt like any other manufacurer as far as scale that i know of so i wouldn't expect the same level of service.

 

[Kate]

Trog, if you can't or won't back up your claims about cost effectiveness and durability then you shouldn't be making them.

I wouldn't trust you to service any product for me, you're far too unprofessional, volatile and you take things personally. You're likely to take somebodies money, then decide you don't like them any more and refuse to have anything to do with them. With just your word about promises of service and replacements they'd be left high and dry with no comeback.

You are a seller who spends a lot of time bad mouthing other sellers and making unfounded claims about your product. There's nothing there to trust from what I can see. Prove what you say if you want to generate confidence.

EDIT
You might be right Apostle but where's the 'hobbiest' price tag?

 

[trog100]

i reckon you gotta look at the screwdriver like this :

A guy knocks something up in his garden shed..great it works like it's meant to. He knows others would like a device like his so he spends a few long nights down the end of the garden in his shed making a few more to sell on e-bay, the same guy probably not listed as a buisness seller ( my guess ) so no guarantee's there.

some people want one of these devices, they gotta look at the fact it's this chap still knocking them up in his garden shed or garage in his spare time or retirement, the people that buy these know they are being knocked up by this bloke in his garden shed so shouldn't really expect any gaurentee or support.

Trog isn't a true supplier in my mind , just a hobbiest. I bet he's not paying any tax on the money made from his screwdriver sales or claiming tax back on raw products needed for the manufacture and that's his buisness.

He certainly isnt like any other manufacurer as far as scale that i know of so i wouldn't expect the same level of service.

i hanvt made any money any yet dude.. but rest assuring its all legit.. but basically we have simply started a proccess.. where that process goes who know..

at present we are not big business and thats for sure.. we are now in what would i describe what as the "cottage industry phase" is this bad.. ??

we also expect to raise a few eyebrows and make a few enemies.. its par for the course.. how could we fail to..???

and apostle.. small means better service in my book.. it means personal and a product made by someone who knows about the product not a bunch big business guys and accountants selling anything to make a buck....

trog

ps.. i never as i have said be chose the title of supplier.. it was forced upon me by joe..

 

[trog100]

Trog, if you can't or won't back up your claims about cost effectiveness and durability then you shouldn't be making them.

I wouldn't trust you to service any product for me, you're far too unprofessional, volatile and you take things personally. You're likely to take somebodies money, then decide you don't like them any more and refuse to have anything to do with them. With just your word about promises of service and replacements they'd be left high and dry with no comeback.

You are a seller who spends a lot of time bad mouthing other sellers and making unfounded claims about your product. There's nothing there to trust from what I can see. Prove what you say if you want to generate confidence.

EDIT
You might be right Apostle but where's the 'hobbiest' price tag?

and kate its quite clear u wont be buying a screwdriver... he he

trog

ps.. i also make no unfounded claims.. if u wish to dispute this statement i will do so.. but talking to u is very hard.. u are simply irrational at times..

 

[Kate]

Not from you Trog, he he.

 

[trog100]

Not from you Trog, he he.

well kate thats your loss not mine.. u wont buy one from anybody else.. big business isnt able to make what small business can...

any comment on that one apostle.. is it cos they dont have garden sheds.. he he he

trog

 

[Kate]

I'll just keep my money in my pocket until something comes along that I like the sound of. I don't have a problem with batteries anyway.

 

[trog100]

no problems kate.. but looking at the world situation at the moment.. all long term promises might well become a mute point.. whoever is making them..

none of us might be making anything in a months time.. big business could be more vulnerable than my "garden shed"..

trog

 

[Kate]

Why did you ask me about Teletubbies the other day?

 

[ApOsTle51]

big business isnt able to make what small business can...

any comment on that one apostle.. is it cos they dont have garden sheds.. he he he

trog

No your right on the money there trog. Many moons ago i used to work for the UK's Largest independant metal component manufacturer and I know if the volume of the order wan't enough we wouldn't take the order. Either wait till numbers are larger or go elswhere to have them produced.

Compared to a large scale operation i'm sure the screwdriver build quality is second to none as each is hand assembled and tested by the same person.

I like the phrase 'cottage industry' btw. sounds very idealic.

we did however used to have a garden shed at the plant..not alot went on in there tho...well...nothing i could mention here

You might be right Apostle but where's the 'hobbiest' price tag?

Kate , In my experience a specialist item made by the hobbiest will always be more expensive than the chinese mass made alternative

 

[trog100]

if i had the money to make the "cottage industy" item into a big business item i would get on an airplane go to china and get the chinese copy anything for five dollars gizmo machine to do just that to our screwdrivers..

i doubt the price would go down thow.. big business dosnt operate that way.. we would just make oodles more money..

and kate.. the price tag means it isnt "hobbiest" its business even if in a small way.. we are not making these things for fun.. its boring and tedious work.. we are making them for reward.. it is not a hobby..

i have other more interesting hobbies..

trog

 

[Kate]

I didn't say you were a hobbiest, Apostle did. You're getting confused again dear.

I was wondering about the Teletubbies remark from yesterday though, that's got to be a classic, I have no idea what you're on.