Value for money

[trog100]

i have been known to say in the past.. men and women should live on different planets and just get together at the weekends for a good p-ss up and a sh-g.. he he he

i dont have to prove anything to you dudess.. i know what it costs me to e smoke.. i dont care have to care about people keeping their promises to me either.. i dont ask them to make any.. no one gets let down this way.. i am also independent of them.. they wont let me down cos i dont put myself in a position where they can let me down..

disposable and cheap is the way e cigs are gonna have to go.. the original ruyan concept is outdated and no longer valid.. long guarantees will soon be forgotten and as long as the price comes down accordingly this will be for the better..

its already happening with atomizers.. a new one every time the cart is changed.. this makes my "two weeks" seem like an eternity..

trog

 

[leaford]

typical leaford.. to assume they will be in business for long enough to honour their long guarantee is also pure speculation.. he he he

No, Trog, I'm not assuming anything. They may go out of business, I may quit entirely, I may die. But basing your decision on "I doubt they'll still be in business," is poor reasoning.

The fact is, that they currently are not out of business, and there is no factual reason to believe they will go out of business. It is also a fact that they ARE honoring their guarantee, and there is no factual reason to doubt that they will continue.

Doubts are not facts.

the reason for my bias is simple leaford.. if i buy something with a five year guarantee i assume the guarantee to reflect the expected life of the product.. i dont simply take it to mean they will keep supplying me with new parts as the ones i have go wrong and expect me to be product-less while all this is going on.. and keep making trips to the local bloody post office..

Assumptions should always bend to reality. The reality is that these things do break down, as you so often point out. And that they do keep replacing them. Whatever you assume a warranty to be, or to be based on, it is what it is. And what it is is a replacement guarantee, that all the brands I have bought from have honored and continue to honor.

As to trips to the post office, I agree with you there. If I'm up during Post Office hours it's usually because I can't sleep, and I'm too tired to want to go out then, either. But if it's a trip to the PO versus paying for a new part out of pocket... (shrug) you know which I prefer.

i dont expect for one second any of these people making these five year promises to be around long enough to honour them.. why on earth anybody else does i cant fathom..

Weren't you the one a couple of weeks back with a whole thread about wanting FACTS? Not opinion? Your belief or lack of belief is not a fact. It's an opinion.

Besides which, you like to use the 5-year example because it makes the best case that it's unrealistic, but in reality, only Ruyan and Sedansa offer a 5-year guarantee. The rest are 6 months or 1 year. Do you expect Janty will not be around in 6 months? Do you believe njoy will not be around in 1 year?

and no way on gods earth can i see the brand name people sending me out new batteries and atomizers every couple of week for the next year or so.. can u.. ???

Based on my experience, if it's necessary, YES. I will say it again. YES, if you need a new atomizer every two weeks, they will send you one every two weeks.

Sedansa, Janty, and Njoy, the three guaranteed brands I have experience with, have honored and continue to honor their guarantee. Each and every time.

Do you have any factual experience to the contrary? Do you know of ANYONE who has been refused replacement parts by any guaranteed brand?

Frankly, Trog, if not (and I'm sure you don't) you should put up or shut up. Without any real facts behind your criticism you're doing nothing but bashing them for no good reason.

I have criticised plenty of brands for plenty of reasons. And when I do, I have ACTUAL facts and examples to back it up. Demonstrated on video, if possible. Where are yours?

ruyan are pulling out of this silly guarantee thing with their over priced disposable.. that carries an 1800 puff guarantee which is bout right.. he he

Now you're the one using a crystal ball, trying to read their minds. Just because they offer a disposable product, doesn't mean they are pulling out of their guarantee. Or that they are no longer going to make or market reusable products. Have they released any sort of statement to that effect? Or, again, have you read about anyone being told their Ruyan is no longer guaranteed?

 

[smoking gnu]

Yes trog I bought a sedansa thinking it would last for the 5 years, but I’m new to this and after reading the forums I now know all this e smoking kit has a very short life span. But at the moment my diva is performing well, I shall smoke it till its dead then see what they are like with there guarantee. I also think you are right about just having to use they're carts for them to stick to the guarantee. But how would they know? And I would never never ever use other carts or juice from anywhere else HONEST! LOL. Will they be around in 5 years? I really don’t know, man at the moment some of the biggest banks in the world are going under. I made my decision to get a diva part because of the guarantee and partly from seeing some good feedback on the net. If I made the right decision or not I will find out pretty soon it seems. “I shall just have to suck it and see”

 

[bUrNSwHeNIp]

I'm a bit confused by this thread.

What is your definition of value?

Everyone is talking about the dollar amount of these things per unit per year.

Maybe I'm from another planet but I can see both sides of this argument and I can't agree with either.
At least not for the reasons given.

Value or perceived value is very subjective.

A Ford Escort and a Mercedes Benz will both drive you to the store, but does that make the Ford Escort a better value because of price?

I think not.
I've been smoking for 38 years. I smoke a pack and a half a day on average. That's about 9 to 10 US dollars a day!
At those prices I DON'T CARE what it costs for an e-cig.
It's still a better deal than killing myself for top dollar!

Personally I deserve the best.....I work hard all day and I want nothing less.
For $10 a day I can afford to buy a brand new Kissbox extended kit every other week, but I've been lucky and the one I bought is still chugging along after a month and a half with no signs of packing it in just yet.

We have to be fiscally responsible, and we all would like to be driving a Rolls Royce, but we buy what we can afford.

The way I see it,....It's gonna be hanging out of my mouth in the middle of my face......I want something that not only functions well but looks halfway as good as I do.....for me the white generic penstyles just don't cut it.
When someone asks me what I'm smoking I proudly say "It's a Kissbox"...."The best!"
I don't want to say "It's a cheap generic."
Not that there's anything wrong with cheap generics. It's just, in my experience, I've found the draw and innovations of the Kissbox to be a higher quality than any generics that I've tried to date.
For that matter, any E-Cig I've tried to date.

I also believe that as time goes by, the technology will improve and like cell phones, mp3 players, and other electronic devices, as each year goes by, new models with improved performance features will emerge.
Everyone is gonna want the newest that this exploding industry will have to offer.
Cashmere said it in another thread somewhere, that we are living and experiencing a very special event in smoking history......we band of smoking brothers.
We may be the Guinea Pigs for this, but we are also the witness's to something very special indeed.

So.....which ever device you prefer, rest assured that it will not be too long a time before you "upgrade" to the next generation or newest model.

Already you can find the Janty/Sedansa 4 hole atomizers appearing in generics and I'm sure it won't be long before we see generics with manual switchs turning up.

I can't wait to see what kind of improvements the "brand name" manufacturer's have in store, but I'm sure they keep tabs on forums like this one, and are addressing the atomizer/cartridge/battery issues talked about on a daily basis.

We all want to save a buck, but it's up to the individual as to what level they find is comfortable.
I wear $100 Rockport shoes to knock around in and $400 Bally shoes when I dress up. I would never disparage anyone for wearing either. They each have their place and purpose in my wardrobe. By the same token, I smoke $50 generics and a $150 Kissbox.
As far as I'm concerned......they are all great values.

 

[leaford]

Nice, Burns. Thank you.

 

[Kate]

So now I'm a Dudess Trog. Does that mean I'm not your Sweet anymore? I can't wait to see what you come up with next. Finding new names for me must at keep you busy for at least a few nano seconds.

You haven't backed up your allegations about the eliquid because you simply don't know the answer. You work on speculation and assumptions not facts.

All your last post is is wasted space, like you. You have no more useful contributions to make to the discussion, your point is made as far as you are capable of making it, so you're just trolling around to make yourself feel like a big man.

You're over compensating.

 

[ned Zeppelin]

Nice, Burns. Thank you.

Nice set of Burns do you mean Leaford as they look good to me in Burns picture for somebody who has smoked for 38 years

 

[trog100]

no kate there aint a lot more for me to say in this thread..

i have an odd feeling that in real life e we might get on.. but here we need to stay on our different planets..

value for money is very very subjective thing.. leaford "assumes" away to his hearts content but seems to demand "facts" and only "facts" from me..

he is even implying i am not allowed an oppinion.. even thow i clearly state it as such.. he he he

in fact both of u tweak and twist everything i say purely for the sake off argument.. both of u feel free to take the p-iss and insult..

having been banned once as a direct result of your provocation i dont feel at ease communicating with u.. sorry..

so can we please try and not communicate in future..

i can talk to leaford (just) but not u and certainly not both of u at once.. best if we dont try..

and for anybody to "assume" (leaford) these guys would keep sending me new parts every couple of week i really do find incredulous.. but that is genuinely only my "opinion".. i find lots of things incredulous that others just accept as the norm..

also i find guarantees with no small print incredulous.. they dont exist on my planet..

but anything i have said in this tread is purely my "oppinon".. facts dont come into it where value for money is concerned.. just our own relative ways of how we arrive at conclusions..

trog

 

[Kate]

Sadly, I don't think we would get on in real life Trog, I think you're a deliberately offensive, arrogant, bigot and I really don't like you.

Trying to avoid each other would be the mature approach, I'll give it a go.

All the best.

 

[Kate]

I've just left a post for Ludo asking if Janty insist on specific eliquid being used in their devices to not void the warranty.

Does anyone know what the policy is for any of the other brands? I've heard that Njoy insist on their cartridges being bought for their devices but I haven't actually seen this written anywhere officially, I don't know if it's just an urban myth.

The reason I'm checking is because I think that Trog is correct, it does make a difference to the costings if specific eliquid has to be bought to maintain the warranty. Generics can be used with any eliquid and over a year this could make a big difference, especially if compared with the price of Njoy cartridges.

 

[leaford]

Trgo, maybe you and I view assumptions differently. I don't think it's an assumption, but rather a fact, when it has been proven to be true. Is it an assumption that the sky is blue? I do not need to assume that a guarantee is being honored, when my and others experience has proven it to be true.

And, yes, when the opinion you state is that someone's business will not back up their guarantee, or that they will not be in business, those are the kinds of statement that needs to be backed up by fact. Otherwise it's just bashing.

 

[bUrNSwHeNIp]

Sadly, I don't think we would get on in real life Trog, I think you're a deliberately offensive, arrogant, bigot and I really don't like you.

LOL.....these are the very traits that I find endearing about our "beavis and buthead" imitator, Trog......he he he

Hell, the interaction between you, Trog, and leaford are what makes this place, that much more interesting.
Quite entertaining actually. he he he
he he he
Ah...err.....she said bigot.....he he he he

 

[jpc815]

I have an NJOY, have never seen anything on the website or in anything they have mailed me nor have they asked about it in any of the dozens of returns I have made concerning what type of carts or liquid I am using.

 

[jpc815]

You are so right! Burnswhenip--makes a lot of sense to me!

 

[icemanmaz]

I think it would have been better if you had also quoted the postage costs If a certain device broke say every 2 months the price would Prob be more than Smokesters starter kits
Gamucci are UK based 12 month guarantee but again you are paying nearly £50 for a starter kit.

 

[Kate]

I have an NJOY, have never seen anything on the website or in anything they have mailed me nor have they asked about it in any of the dozens of returns I have made concerning what type of carts or liquid I am using.

I strongly suspect that although they would like us to buy cartridges or eliquid from them they actually stop short of making it a condition of the warranty. Ludo has suggested the same thing for Janty, they think we should use their eliquid but they honour replacements whatever.

I think it would have been better if you had also quoted the postage costs If a certain device broke say every 2 months the price would Prob be more than Smokesters starter kits
Gamucci are UK based 12 month guarantee but again you are paying nearly £50 for a starter kit.

I agree, the postage costs can add up over a year, that's why I was sure to mention postage as being uncalculated in the original post. It's too difficult for me to work out meaningful costs on this since we are all from different parts of the world. You'll have to work that out individually. All I can say is that to send faulty parts back to Janty from the UK has just cost me £1.

I've found out more about Janty's guarantee, it is six months on atomisers and switches and three months on batteries. So ...
Just say you need to pay to replace an atomiser and switch after six months and two batteries every three months. The cost for hardware and a years warranty = £130.09 + postage from Janty Europe.

Regarding the cost of eliquid and cartridges for a year from different suppliers. For someone who uses 2ml per day or 2x classic sized cartridges (this is heavy use?) -

Ecig.com = £189.80 + postage
Freesmoke = £584 + postage
Janty Europe = £467.20 + postage
Janty USA = £365 + postage
Johnson Creek USA price = £262.80 + postage
Johnson Creek EU price = £438 UK postage included
Totally Wicked eliquid = £547.50 + £2.99 postage per 20ml from ebay shop
Sedansa cartridges = £949.42 + postage
electroniccigarettesales Kick = £271.95 + postage
MNZ's E-Cigarette World = £284.85 + postage
Njoy USA cartridges = £2036.21 local postage included
Njoy EU cartridges = £2309.17 + postage

That's all I can be bothered to work out, feel free to add more.

Disclaimer: I do not suggest you judge eliquid on price, quality is an important consideration. If you use ecig.com eliquid for example, you may want to factor in costs for replacing more dead atomisers (and possibly medical costs for knackered lungs ???? ... just speculating.)

 

[jpc815]

I strongly suspect that although they would like us to buy cartridges or eliquid from them they actually stop short of making it a condition of the warranty. Ludo has suggested the same thing for Janty, they think we should use their eliquid but they honour replacements whatever.



I agree, the postage costs can add up over a year, that's why I was sure to mention postage as being uncalculated in the original post. It's too difficult for me to work out meaningful costs on this since we are all from different parts of the world. You'll have to work that out individually. All I can say is that to send faulty parts back to Janty from the UK has just cost me £1.

I've found out more about Janty's guarantee, it is six months on atomisers and switches and three months on batteries. So ...
Just say you need to pay to replace an atomiser and switch after six months and two batteries every three months. The cost for hardware and a years warranty = £130.09 + postage from Janty Europe.

Regarding the cost of eliquid and cartridges for a year from different suppliers. For someone who uses 2ml per day or 2x classic sized cartridges (this is heavy use?) -

Ecig.com = £189.80 + postage
Freesmoke = £584 + postage
Janty Europe = £467.20 + postage
Janty USA = £365 + postage
Johnson Creek USA price = £262.80 + postage
Johnson Creek EU price = £438 UK postage included
Totally Wicked eliquid = £547.50 + £2.99 postage per 20ml from ebay shop
Sedansa cartridges = £949.42 + postage
electroniccigarettesales Kick = £271.95 + postage
MNZ's E-Cigarette World = £284.85 + postage
Njoy USA cartridges = £2036.21 local postage included
Njoy EU cartridges = £2309.17 + postage

That's all I can be bothered to work out, feel free to add more.

Disclaimer: I do not suggest you judge eliquid on price, quality is an important consideration. If you use ecig.com eliquid for example, you may want to factor in costs for replacing more dead atomisers (and possibly medical costs for knackered lungs ???? ... just speculating.)

8-o8-oKate--what are KNACKERED LUNGS!!????Doesn't sound good!8-o8-o

 

[leaford]

Kate; Great breakdown again! Freesmoke is on the high end, of course, but I was surprised Wicked is almost as high, and Sedansa carts are higher!

Freesmoke is, IMO, the best of the best, and well worth it if you can afford it, BTW.

Jan; knackered is Brit-speak for ****ed up.

 

[Kate]

Lol, yes sorry Jan, it's what Leaford said. We don't know what's in many of the eliquids on sale. Most of the ingredients are not tested for inhaling, even if they are food safe, so we need to be conscious of the potential health damage bad ingredients can cause.

With eliquid saving money is not my first priority. I look for transparency from the seller - such as the information offered by Pillbox and Janty and proof such as lab tests, the clinical tests carried out by Ruyan and Knutselpeter's home residue tests. Next I consider reputation. If a brand has a reputation for clogging atomisers or negative health reactions I would be very cautious about using it. Some brands are recommended by experienced esmokers (such as Leafords recommendation for Freesmoke above), that sways my opinion too. Next I try it and evaluate the taste and vapour quality, if I like it and I have no problems with health or atomisers I might buy it again. My final consideration would be cost. In my view there is so little price difference apart from Njoy and Sedansa that I can treat myself to the best of the rest. I prefer to pay a premium to sellers who are actively working on reducing hazards and producing meaningful test results.

I'm checking out some Janty flavours at the moment but will soon try Freesmoke on Leafords recommendation and I'll likely get some extra high nicotine Wicked for diluting with my diy juice, Pillbox - Wicked's seller is very conscientious about safety.

Thanks Leaford, I'm glad you found it useful. It certainly helps to compare brands on a like for like basis when making consumer decisions. I hope it helps other members to make informed decisions too.

 

[Kate]

Oh, I forgot to add - I noticed recently that Freesmoke now sell 100ml bottles of eliquid. The price above is based on the cost for 50ml bottles. So if you buy in bulk from Freesmoke you can get a better deal than the price I've given above.