Vape Free Youth

[stevegmu]

It seems many would like e-liquid to be regulated akin to alcohol, as many make the comparisons. I don't think many quite understand the extent alcoholic beverages are regulated and the amount of products which either never make it to market in the US or get pulled for 'appealing to youth.'...

 

[Cacique]

Thanks for clearing that up. The links I found seemed to be complaining about it as if they were real products.

Pop Tarts. A thing that children adore, and we know adults like 'em too. I'll make sure to look more into it before posting pictures.

 

[Cacique]

Growing up in Puerto Rico, I sure loved that logo from a very young age. Many of the youth there had many things with Bacardi logos and was one of the many drinks the youth drank or drink. Bacardi is extremely popular in the Caribbean. I also did love watching the Budweiser frogs as a kid too.

 

[Cacique]

I totally forgot about these. This is what was "in" in Puerto Rico when I was around 18 or so. They look just like Capri Sun pouches, come in boxes just like them and taste like if you but rum or something in them.

10 years after I first saw this in Puerto Rico, which is now, I'm seeing this in Walmarts here in Florida. And lets also not forget, children drink and smoke because it makes them feel cool and mature. The children really affected by the colorful and cartoony labeling are going to be the very young. It's hard for me to see anyone selling a vape to 10 year olds, all though I'm sure some must, but most of the brands I've seen colorful and cartoony are "premium" brands that kids won't find at the corner store.

 

[Lessifer]

Well, you can try to figure out what "appeals" to the various age groups, it would be very different for 1-5yo, 6-10yo, and 11-20yo(some states the legal age is 21). That last group would be very difficult as they are close to adults, and are usually attracted to things that make them appear more adult.

Or you could say, we don't sell to minors, and we're not marketing to them either. There's very little "marketing" anyway. The only commercials I've seen have been Blu, Vuse, and njoy. Same for print ads.

 

[RandyF]

They're not going to stop at the image on the label, or the name, they want the flavor gone too. They can use the same non-argument for all three.

Maybe...maybe not. We actually do not have any idea what the FDA is going to do, but they are going to do something. I think a lot of people are seeing what the states are doing and assuming the feds will go the same route. The federal government doesn't have the same motivation individual states do to villainize vaping. Personally, I do not think they will go overboard. There may be a few more rules that some people just inherently want to rebel against, but when all is said and done, this industry could use a bit of over-sight. There are many ways to have flavors that would appeal to children, but are not marketed towards them. I really believe this is going to be the FDA's end game. Yes you can have a Trix flavored juice, just don't make it look like a cereal box or put cartoon characters on it. Many of the best juice vendors out there use classy or simple labels, it doesn't seem to be hurting their business. Just like tobacco and the light, ultra light thing. BT still did it, they just changed the labeling so it was not misleading.

We can debate till out fingers are numb, but they will pass regulations, and they will most definitely leave the door open for interpretation, but those interpretations will probably only be felt by companies that push the line.

I realize there are states out there that are out of control, but the FDA and state legislation are two completely different monsters with vastly different motivations,

 

[stevegmu]

I think most vapers won't even notice when regulations are passed and enacted...

 

[Lessifer]

Maybe...maybe not. We actually do not have any idea what the FDA is going to do, but they are going to do something. I think a lot of people are seeing what the states are doing and assuming the feds will go the same route. The federal government doesn't have the same motivation individual states do to villainize vaping. Personally, I do not think they will go overboard. There may be a few more rules that some people just inherently want to rebel against, but when all is said and done, this industry could use a bit of over-sight. There are many ways to have flavors that would appeal to children, but are not marketed towards them. I really believe this is going to be the FDA's end game. Yes you can have a Trix flavored juice, just don't make it look like a cereal box or put cartoon characters on it. Many of the best juice vendors out there use classy or simple labels, it doesn't seem to be hurting their business. Just like tobacco and the light, ultra light thing. BT still did it, they just changed the labeling so it was not misleading.

We can debate till out fingers are numb, but they will pass regulations, and they will most definitely leave the door open for interpretation, but those interpretations will probably only be felt by companies that push the line.

I realize there are states out there that are out of control, but the FDA and state legislation are two completely different monsters with vastly different motivations,

Judging by the recent FDA conferences where the main focus was on youth vaping and FLAVORS targeted to kids, and statements made by the FDA chair like "well, we can't go after the flavors until it is deemed a tobacco product," I'm fairly certain the feds have their eyes on flavors. But hey, I could be wrong.

 

[NathanielFT]

Or, since "we" accept the notion that nicotine, even without combustion, is harmful and addicting (do we really?) and should not be available to "youth", "we" decide to bring the marketing and packaging messages into alignment with these stated beliefs, simply because it is the right thing to do.

No there have been numerous studies which show eliquid to be no more toxic then washing up liquid, and nicotine to be no more harmful then caffeine. A childproof cap, appropriate warnings and an age restriction is all that's needed. Sugar is in damn near everything - and in large quantities, despite being proven to be more addictive then class A drugs, wheres the Government and FDA concern there? Or the countless FDA approved sweeteners and additives PROVEN to be harmful?

I've seen bleach in supermarkets with colorful packaging in exotic fruity scents. There are numerous products readily available which have already killed millions while millions of others remain addicted, from tobacco and alcohol to painkillers and junk food. Junk food and fizzy drinks full of harmful crap are both heavily marketed towards kids and nobody bats an eye - they still refuse to label their laboratory made GM crap they pass as food! When you realize A LOT of foods, drinks, prescription drugs, GMO's, pesticides, etc. sold in the US are banned all over the world, don't that make you ask why?

If you conform for the sake of conforming, and don't fight for what you believe in - and what you know is right - you're a part of the problem, simple as that. If you can't see that statements like 'eliquid kills', 'ecigs are harmful' and 'protect the kids' are nothing but a campaign of lies to protect a billion $ global business, or 'level the playing field' as they put it, you need to open your eyes. They allow their approved products to cause death, suffering, addiction, depression, long term illness, disability, etc, and as long as they make $ its all ok.

The fact is, adults like sweet dessert flavors too, and vaping is safer then cigarettes - neither of which should be ok for kids to take up - but knowing which one causes massive counts of illness, death, addiction and suffering, i know i'd much prefer my kid have a cheeky vape then a cheeky smoke (they'd get a telling off either way). If you're dumb and gullible enough to allow anyone to make you think that's wrong, you are part of the problem.

This year so far in the USA...
156,000 dead from tobacco
137,000 dead from obesity
45,000 dead from alcohol
6,500 dead from prescription drugs
491 dead from police
36 struck by lightening
0 death from ecigs

So who and what are these scumbags protecting? You do the math

 

[puddinman]

Ummmmmmm seriously? ....none of pictures you posted are actual products for sale

Your first picture......

Anna Utopia Giordano | POP Bottles Project
The Italian designer Anna Utopia Giordano has come up with an art project in 2012 with a humorous design concept that mixes famous alcohol brands and kids toy makers. She created Pop Bottles, a series of alcohol bottles branded with iconic names like Lego, Nintendo and Disney, and complete with rubber baby bottle tops. There are a number of mash-ups including Fisher Price and Jack Daniels whiskey, Marvel and Martini, and Barbie and Absolut vodka. Giordano says: The bottles are NOT for sale, they are part of an art exhibition. This is an art project to raise social awareness on topics such as alcohol abuse by teens, alcohol abuse by pregnant women, the disinterest of some parents towards their children (abandoned for days between toys and video games), how far marketers can go to gain the attention of their younger customers. There are no commercial purposes.

....and a quick google seach shows hello kitty wine/champaign is no longer for sale anywhere in the US or anywhere else that I could find ......all the rest are photoshoped pictures.

Do you think kids might like to try any of these brands? I sure do. Do you think kids would like to play a real life PAC-Man game? I sure do.

But so would adults...I sure do!

 

[Wow1420]

The thing is, you can't have it both ways, at least that's how alcohol has won this argument. If it is illegal for minors to purchase, marketing, whatever it is, cannot be "targeted" to minors.

But it's not illegal in all states, is it? I had trouble finding a current list, but it looked like 8 to 10 states don't (yet) have age restrictions.

 

[Wow1420]

I don't know why you quoted me, since your post goes way beyond the point I was trying to make, but since you did, I feel I need to respond.

No there have been numerous studies which show eliquid to be no more toxic then washing up liquid, and nicotine to be no more harmful then caffeine. A childproof cap, appropriate warnings and an age restriction is all that's needed. Sugar is in damn near everything - and in large quantities, despite being proven to be more addictive then class A drugs, wheres the Government and FDA concern there? Or the countless FDA approved sweeteners and additives PROVEN to be harmful?

I've seen bleach in supermarkets with colorful packaging in exotic fruity scents. There are numerous products readily available which have already killed millions while millions of others remain addicted, from tobacco and alcohol to painkillers and junk food. Junk food and fizzy drinks full of harmful crap are both heavily marketed towards kids and nobody bats an eye - they still refuse to label their laboratory made GM crap they pass as food! When you realize A LOT of foods, drinks, prescription drugs, GMO's, pesticides, etc. sold in the US are banned all over the world, don't that make you ask why?

If you conform for the sake of conforming, and don't fight for what you believe in - and what you know is right - you're a part of the problem, simple as that. If you can't see that statements like 'eliquid kills', 'ecigs are harmful' and 'protect the kids' are nothing but a campaign of lies to protect a billion $ global business, or 'level the playing field' as they put it, you need to open your eyes. They allow their approved products to cause death, suffering, addiction, depression, long term illness, disability, etc, and as long as they make $ its all ok.

The fact is, adults like sweet dessert flavors too, and vaping is safer then cigarettes - neither of which should be ok for kids to take up - but knowing which one causes massive counts of illness, death, addiction and suffering, i know i'd much prefer my kid have a cheeky vape then a cheeky smoke (they'd get a telling off either way). If you're dumb and gullible enough to allow anyone to make you think that's wrong, you are part of the problem.

This year so far in the USA...
156,000 dead from tobacco
137,000 dead from obesity
45,000 dead from alcohol
6,500 dead from prescription drugs
491 dead from police
36 struck by lightening
0 death from ecigs

So who and what are these scumbags protecting? You do the math

So you are in favor of age restrictions? Why? What's the justification? If "protect the kids" is a lie, why do you want age restrictions?

Are you looking for everything you consider bad to be regulated or banned or are you looking for everything to be left unregulated? It sounds like you want your sweet flavors but want everything else that you don't approve of banned.

If you're dumb and gullible enough to allow anyone to make you think that's wrong, you are part of the problem.

What "that" are referring to? Sweet flavors? Kids having a cheeky vape? Everything in your post above?

Since you quoted me, I'm taking that "part of the problem" bit personally, and I resent it. You don't know me or what I think well enough for your opinion to have any merit.

 

[NathanielFT]

I don't know why you quoted me, since your post goes way beyond the point I was trying to make, but since you did, I feel I need to respond.

So you are in favor of age restrictions? Why? What's the justification? If "protect the kids" is a lie, why do you want age restrictions?

Are you looking for everything you consider bad to be regulated or banned or are you looking for everything to be left unregulated?

It sounds like you want your sweet flavors but want everything else that you don't approve of banned.

Not calling for anything to be banned, merely highlighting some of the items currently causing long term illness, disease, disability, depression, obesity, death, etc. but are freely available, while ecigs are yet to kill or harm anyone yet its guns out for them. Also highlighting that people on here do no favors to anyone - certainly no vapor - by suggesting ways to stifle products already under much scrutiny and the victim of a lot of misinformation, and which in reality is relatively harmless next to the product it's designed to replace. The first part is a massive contradiction and the latter is idiotic nonsense.

Vaping is essentially a smoking aid so should be age restricted to the same age as cigarettes to reflect this. I personally welcome the idea of underage smokers vaping instead to kick their habit like all of us do - not over quitting entirely of course, but then we all know how difficult that is.

My opinion is people should raise their kids themselves instead of government and law enforcement, they should be providing the warnings, restriction and guiding them themselves. But we live in a society with a lot of lazy people who blame their kids naughtiness on teachers, store owners, other kids, etc. and oppressive leaders who want to tell us what we can and cant do in our own homes for our own good while they do whatever suits them. Calling for no age restriction in our society as it is is completely unrealistic, some might say irresponsible, and it would never happen anyway. So i don't really appose a sensible age restriction, however banning sweet flavors and bright packaging is completely irrational and excessive, IMO.

What "that" are referring to? Sweet flavors? Kids having a cheeky vape? Everything in your post above?

Was mainly referring to this 'i'd much prefer my kid have a cheeky vape then a cheeky smoke (they'd get a telling off either way)'.

Since you quoted me, I'm taking that "part of the problem" bit personally, and I resent it. You don't know me or what I think well enough for your opinion to have any merit.

The only bit directed at you was my response to your post where I mentioned nicotine being no more addictive then caffeine, and it being no more toxic then washing up liquid according to ECITA, then i got a bit carried away with my thoughts at the time..lol.

 

[StonyArtichoke]

I never got the whole flavor debate. Kids smoke cigarettes there's no way to stop them from vaping that wouldn't render vaping completely useless.

 

[Lessifer]

But it's not illegal in all states, is it? I had trouble finding a current list, but it looked like 8 to 10 states don't (yet) have age restrictions.

I haven't checked on the last few states that hadn't previously enacted age restrictions lately, I know at least a few of them had bills moving through their legislature. Age restrictions are a foregone conclusion though, because the industry has decided to accept them. Again, I think that was a bad idea, but I'm not a member of the industry.

 

[DC2]

Sigh...

The whole thing is just ridiculously ludicrous.
It's unambiguously stupid.

And yet, here we are.
Something just ain't right.

And so, yes, here we are.

 

[motordude]

Man, wrong thread.
I thought someone was selling Free youth to vape.

 

[tmcguffie]

The only piece of legislation that would make any sense to me, is that they simply make the sale of vape products or e-liquid to minors illegal. If that was the case, how could they then say that we were marketing or targeting products specifically aimed at enticing kids. The flavours of our e-liquid, the labels on the bottles and any other issues they have regarding "protecting our youth", I would think, should then become null and void because of the simple fact that it is illegal to sell the products to them.
To me, this would be a reasonable, common sense approach, but nothing is simple or straight forward where politicians are involved

 

[Wow1420]

The only piece of legislation that would make any sense to me, is that they simply make the sale of vape products or e-liquid to minors illegal. If that was the case, how could they then say that we were marketing or targeting products specifically aimed at enticing kids. The flavours of our e-liquid, the labels on the bottles and any other issues they have regarding "protecting our youth", I would think, should then become null and void because of the simple fact that it is illegal to sell the products to them.
To me, this would be a reasonable, common sense approach, but nothing is simple or straight forward where politicians are involved

The most current list I can find indicates that 44 states already have laws on the books prohibiting sale of alternate nicotine products to minors. http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/alternative-nicotine-products-e-cigarettes.aspx

Leaving 6 states where sales to minors are still allowed, at least until the FDA gets around to a federal regulation.

 

[Bradinpenn]

Well all the debate about underage vaping has come to a head.

Just to rebuke the naysayers, unfortunately the FDA IS paying attention.


"On May 4, 2015, Mitch Zeller, Director of the FDA’s Center for Tobacco Products, delivered a Keynote Address to an audience of e-cigarette/vaping industry leaders and stakeholders. His remarks included reference to youth, flavors, and marketing"


But several venders have gotten together to help set new standards of responsibility


vapefreeyouth.com/


Seeing as how it is now affecting the industry, would someone like to tell us one more time how it doesn't matter?

Im 43 and like cookies, candy, fruity COPYRIGHTDMCA and some days I don't feel like being adult and nap, watch cartoons and color...