Vape shop sued for over a Million dollars because of exploding battery

[Firecrow]

Do you know how many people burn their houses down with 9v batteries? A fair number. They take a "dead" 9v and throw it into a drawer. The drawer could be a cutlery or junk drawer full of items that can short the battery. Then they go to bed or work and pretty soon the drawer is on fire and it goes from there.

Battery safety is not limited to e-cigs, you can point to numerous consumer devices and battery designs that are simply an accident waiting to happen when the uniformed do something with that device or battery. It only seems to make headlines when its a vaper.

 

[DC2]

People don't know that they need to know.

This.......

 

[Heavyrocker]

Lets ban cell phones too:

http://www.cnet.com/news/samsung-cell-phone-battery-explodes-in-mans-pocket/

 

[DC2]

Lets ban cell phones too:

http://www.cnet.com/news/samsung-cell-phone-battery-explodes-in-mans-pocket/

Most people probably don't know about that either.
I know I didn't until I learned more about batteries here on this forum.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Most people probably don't know about that either.
I know I didn't until I learned more about batteries here on this forum.

You seem to assume most people are uneducated.
I postulate that most people are educated, they are simply lazy and irresponsible.

They would rather claim ignorance than accept responsibility for their own stupid actions.

The dumbing down of society to save face has led us down a pretty pathetic path.

Life doesn't come with warning signs.
It's your responsibility to look out for yourself and not make conscious stupid mistakes.

And when you do, admit it, learn from it and move on.
Don't blame society.

 

[DC2]

You seem to assume most people are uneducated.

Not alt all. In fact that's the very thing I'm arguing against.

I postulate that most people are educated, they are simply lazy and irresponsible.

They would rather claim ignorance than accept responsibility for their own stupid actions.

The dumbing down of society to save face has led us down a pretty pathetic path.

Life doesn't come with warning signs.
It's your responsibility to look out for yourself and not make conscious stupid mistakes.

And when you do, admit it, learn from it and move on.
Don't blame society.

I would probably agree with you about 99% of the time on this topic.

Nobody hates bicycle helmets more than I do.
In fact I've said more than once on this forum that bicycle helmets were the beginning of the end.

But in this case I just do not agree.

Calling people stupid because they are not aware that these batteries can be very dangerous is absurd to me.
Maybe because never in my 44 years on earth would I have ever thought so before I came here.

And I know for a fact that I'm not stupid.


Ignorant, sure, that's fair.

And an ignorant person should spend time to learn those things that are important to them.
But first you have to know that something is important.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Not alt all. In fact that's the very thing I'm arguing against.


I would probably agree with you about 99% of the time on this topic.

Nobody hates bicycle helmets more than I do.
In fact I've said more than once on this forum that bicycle helmets were the beginning of the end.

But in this case I just do not agree.

Calling people stupid because they are not aware that these batteries can be very dangerous is absurd to me.
Maybe because never in my 44 years on earth would I have ever thought so before I came here.

And I know for a fact that I'm not stupid.


Ignorant, sure, that's fair.

And an ignorant person should spend time to learn those things that are important to them.
But first you have to know that something is important.

You didn't know that shorting a battery could cause it to explode?
I'm 47.
We were taught basic electrical theory in science class.
I'm betting you were too.
Whether you chose to apply that knowledge isn't a shops fault, not is it grounds for a million dollar lawsuit.

 

[DC2]

You didn't know that shorting a battery could cause it to explode?
I'm 47.
We were taught basic electrical theory in science class.
I'm betting you were too.
Whether you chose to apply that knowledge isn't a shops fault, not is it grounds for a million dollar lawsuit.

My wife passed the California State Bar, although she doesn't practice law because we don't need her income.
Anyway, I just asked her if she knew any reason not to put one of my 18650 batteries in my pocket.

She said no, she didn't know of any reason why not.
Her IQ is 130 which isn't all THAT impressive, but still.

So I asked her if she had any idea why someone would say not to put them in a pocket with keys.
She said, no, not unless the keys had a battery on the key chain maybe?

 

[Bad Ninja]

My wife passed the California State Bar, although she doesn't practice law because we don't need her income.
Anyway, I just asked her if she knew any reason not to put one of my 18650 batteries in my pocket.

She said no, she didn't know of any reason why not.
Her IQ is 130 which isn't all THAT impressive, but still.

So I asked her if she had any idea why someone would say not to put them in a pocket with keys.
She said, no, not unless the keys had a battery on the key chain maybe?

So neither of you took science in high school?
They never touched on electricity? Electrical theory?

Or did you both just forget?
It's okay to make a mistake. It's okay to err. We are all human.
We can't all remember everything we learned in school.
But that doesn't mean we are not responsible for our own safety.

It is not a shops fault that you don't remember the basic lessons you learned in school.
And it isn't worth a million dollars.

 

[WattWick]

I think it would be fair to distinguish between intelligence, level of education, experience and knowledge.

An IQ of 150 and a degree in quantum mechanics will only get you so far when trying to flush a Japanese toilet. Which "comes natural" to any Japanese pre-schooler.

 

[crxess]

My wife passed the California State Bar, although she doesn't practice law because we don't need her income.
Anyway, I just asked her if she knew any reason not to put one of my 18650 batteries in my pocket.

She said no, she didn't know of any reason why not.
Her IQ is 130 which isn't all THAT impressive, but still.

So I asked her if she had any idea why someone would say not to put them in a pocket with keys.
She said, no, not unless the keys had a battery on the key chain maybe?

This indicates a gap between Intelligence and common sense.
My Father was a very intelligent man and highly valued by the Dept. of the Navy. He still could not grasp the simple use of a Hammer for basic construction. Sorry, you have had to see the storage shed he attempted to construct<my mother corrected>

 

[edyle]

You didn't know that shorting a battery could cause it to explode?
I'm 47.
We were taught basic electrical theory in science class.
I'm betting you were too.
Whether you chose to apply that knowledge isn't a shops fault, not is it grounds for a million dollar lawsuit.

Shorting the typical consumer electronics battery is unlikely to do much else beside kill the battery.

The common Duracell, Energizer or other battery cell can barely deliver 1 amp and if so it's not for very long;
The typical 18650 lithium battery can usually deliver an amp or 5 and some deliver 20, and not just for a few seconds, but for a few minutes. These things pack power an order of magnitude above the level of regular batteries.


The problem with LITHIUM BATTERIES, whether used in cellphones, remote control, cordless power tools (another growing application of lithium batteries), or vaping is they can get into THERMAL RUNAWAY.


Lithium batteries are SPECIAL batteries.
Unlike other rechargeable batteries which can be shipped uncharged with no problem, then charged by the end user, Lithium rechargeable batteries are already charged at the point of manufacture, and become defective if allowed to discharge to zero.

 

[DC2]

So neither of you took science in high school?
They never touched on electricity? Electrical theory?.

I minored in Physics at UCSD.

Although admittedly, mechanics and optics were my strong suits.
Electromagnetism, not so much, although I had no problem passing the course.

Relativity kicked my ... the first time, so I dropped it as I didn't want a bad grade.
I had to take it a second time and work a lot harder.


My wife went to Bishop Alemany High School, which by all accounts is an extremely good school.
But she doesn't remember taking any science classes except for chemistry.

This indicates a gap between Intelligence and common sense.

I suppose it could be argued that I lack common sense.
But in spite of that I seem to have done pretty well navigating my way through life so far.

At least I haven't put any batteries in my pocket with keys or change yet.


Whether or not my wife has more common sense than I do is open for debate.
Just don't tell her I said that.

 

[jseah]

It all comes down to our (in the US) litigious society, where many people's first reaction is "who can I sue over this". Case in point is New York City, which pays out literally millions a year to settle lawsuits brought against it. A couple of months ago, the city paid $5,000 to settle a case where an individual sued the city for an incident from back in 2010. He attacked 2 polices officers with a machete, so the police shot him. He sued because he was shot, and even though his attorney admitted that the shooting was justified, the city decided to settle by paying him the $5,000. And yesterday a jury awarded $25 million to an ex-con who ran from police when they tried to question him. The police chased him down and in the subsequent struggle, the police officer shot him, paralyzing him for life. The jury decided that the police officer used excessive force. Also in NYC there is a Hasidic Jew who has made a career suing hundreds of businesses. He is in a wheelchair and he goes around looking for businesses that are not wheelchair accessible and then sues them. This includes businesses that he would never use even if it was wheelchair accessible, like hair salons, etc.

 

[peterforpats]

i remember a case where a teenager climbed a power towel and got fried. they sued the power company and won because the warning sign fell off and wasn't put back. i'm not really sure why people with lack of common sense are winning these cases just because they are dumb as a rock.

perhaps because the people on the jury are dumb as rocks also.........
and caramel- it wouldn't take a million dollars- people will do stuff for a lot less than that....

 

[Nermal]

The base requirement for learning anything is awareness of not knowing something. People who do not know batteries can be dangerous will not google battery safety.

I can't think of a statement with more universal application.

 

[Paradicio]

The base requirement for learning anything is awareness of not knowing something. People who do not know batteries can be dangerous will not google battery safety.

Exactly.

Manufacturers cannot push product out to the masses under the assumption that Google will be their owners manual.

Quite frankly I find it hard to believe that any consumer would argue that.

If you don't like, or don't need, warning labels....don't read them. But don't deny them of someone who might be saved by them.

 

[SissySpike]

Exactly.

Manufacturers cannot push product out to the masses under the assumption that Google will be their owners manual.

Quite frankly I find it hard to believe that any consumer would argue that.

If you don't like, or don't need, warning labels....don't read them. But don't deny them of someone who might be saved by them.

That is a valid point but at the same time we hold manufacturers accountable for not out thinking people who make bad choices. Warning labels are good I don't think anyone disagrees with that but I think what people are getting tired of is the people and lawyers who use the legal system to profit unreasonably.

Like alot of issues we are seeing lately there are no checks and balances.

Ive seen the word common since thrown around this thread alot. I think there is no such thing if it was common since the word would not come up daily.

 

[Firecrow]

Exactly.

Manufacturers cannot push product out to the masses under the assumption that Google will be their owners manual.

Quite frankly I find it hard to believe that any consumer would argue that.

If you don't like, or don't need, warning labels....don't read them. But don't deny them of someone who might be saved by them.

Perhaps we should start a Wiki - "Things that can kill you that you should not do.", then counter-sue those who don't read it for lack of attention to detail.

 

[Racehorse]

I guess if I cut off my arm with my chainsaw, I should sue Lowe's.

If I cut myself with a knife, I should sue Walmart.

So, you're saying that most consumers, wanting to use an ecig, who are sold a high energy lithium battery, at a B&M, know that they are dangerous ....... in the same way that they know a knife is sharp and will cut them?

I learned about knives when I was about 3 years old. Unfortunately, I did not have much knowledge about lithium batteries until I started vaping.

I did make it my business to learn about them, mostly because I didn't want to blow part of my face off.

However, with the advent of ecigs becoming so popular, such a hot selling item, would you say that the man in the street, who orders a mod online with a battery that comes with it,, with no user manual, etc. is going to automatically know this?

In negligence lawsuits, "COMMON KNOWLEDGE MAY FURNISH STANDARD OF CARE". In the case of the woman who was burned with the McDonalds coffee, it is most people's common knowledge that coffee is hot.

However, if you read that case in detail, the coffee wasn't just hot (i.e. what I make in my mr coffee machine). It was hot beyond hot. You know, the kind of hot that even after you put in cream and sugar it's still ......scalding. In other words, you probably could not put to your lips. You would have to drop a few ice cubes in, etc.

I've had that kind of coffee before from a store.....and was unable to drink it, even after 15-20 minutes.

So "most people" would not assume coffee would be THAT hot.

The question becomes: is the idea that lithium batteries, in an ecig that you hold to your lips, are dangerous and require proper education and handling instructions------or is this just common knowledge that most people would already know?

IMHO, I believe that a better standard of care would be a B&M employee at least asking the person buying if they know how to properly carry a loose, single lithium battery. Because there will be PLENTY of people just over the age of 18 who will pick one up to go to a party or something, to "vape" and they really don't know these things.

I really don't think it's about stupidity as much as lack of exposure to the principals --- battery university is quite a long document......I read it!