Vaping vs Smoking
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Glad the points of my post weren't refuted. That was a pretty easy rebuttal. Between that and post #58, I'm not sure what more there is to discuss. Some of us tackled the content of the article directly. It will be interesting if OP, or anyone else has something new to contribute to the discussion.
As the OP, I have nothing to add, although I would like to. I decided not to do so since it would not have changed anyone's mind. Thanks everyone for participating and sorry if the conversation got heated at times.
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@YoursTruli @Lessifer I did some digging around this morning. when looking for
pertinent literature concerning the effects of nicotine as related to one's health.
There appears to be contradictory information as to nicotine and how it affects
the immune system. Many as YoursTruli has cited suggest nicotine has a negative
impact and causes autoimmune symptoms.
Of course there are these studies indicating that nicotine helps regulate
the inflammatory response,
Nicotine inhibits cytokine synthesis by mouse colonic mucosa. - PubMed - NCBI
Nicotine inhibits cytokine production by placenta cells via NFkappaB: potential role in pregnancy-induced hypertension. - PubMed - NCBI
http://www.pubfacts.com/detail/2581...ring-experimental-autoimmune-encephalomyeliti
and suppresses the autoimmune response.
http://www.jimmunol.org/content/182/3/1730.full
There are even references in the literature indicating when quitting smoking it
could trigger autoimmune illnesses which is contradictory to all the research
indicating smoking (not necessarily nicotine) causes the same thing.
Lastly here is a good article and a publication I found that give a good overview
of the benefits of nicotine.
Researchers Light Up for Nicotine, the Wonder Drug
Nicotine as Therapy
I found it exceedingly difficult to put aside my perceived bias indicating
that a lot of literature blaming nicotine for so many bad side effects is
almost always is directly linked to smoking. Most if not all studies I
found start out saying we know smoking causes thus and so and then proceed
to to show nicotine is the culprit never noting any other compound, not
even carbon monoxide which can damage internal organs.
Long Term Effects of Carbon Monoxide Poisoning : Silent Shadow
It's also believed to trigger autoimmune response.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040906083815.htm
Then again maybe it doesn't.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23691924
Regards
Mike
pertinent literature concerning the effects of nicotine as related to one's health.
There appears to be contradictory information as to nicotine and how it affects
the immune system. Many as YoursTruli has cited suggest nicotine has a negative
impact and causes autoimmune symptoms.
Of course there are these studies indicating that nicotine helps regulate
the inflammatory response,
Nicotine inhibits cytokine synthesis by mouse colonic mucosa. - PubMed - NCBI
Nicotine inhibits cytokine production by placenta cells via NFkappaB: potential role in pregnancy-induced hypertension. - PubMed - NCBI
http://www.pubfacts.com/detail/2581...ring-experimental-autoimmune-encephalomyeliti
and suppresses the autoimmune response.
http://www.jimmunol.org/content/182/3/1730.full
There are even references in the literature indicating when quitting smoking it
could trigger autoimmune illnesses which is contradictory to all the research
indicating smoking (not necessarily nicotine) causes the same thing.
Lastly here is a good article and a publication I found that give a good overview
of the benefits of nicotine.
Researchers Light Up for Nicotine, the Wonder Drug
Nicotine as Therapy
I found it exceedingly difficult to put aside my perceived bias indicating
that a lot of literature blaming nicotine for so many bad side effects is
almost always is directly linked to smoking. Most if not all studies I
found start out saying we know smoking causes thus and so and then proceed
to to show nicotine is the culprit never noting any other compound, not
even carbon monoxide which can damage internal organs.
Long Term Effects of Carbon Monoxide Poisoning : Silent Shadow
It's also believed to trigger autoimmune response.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040906083815.htm
Then again maybe it doesn't.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23691924
Regards
Mike
Yeah, I never came across a study that went into the immunosuppressive aspect until this thread. Well outside of that other recent thread about a possible future study anyway. I'd like to learn more about it too, it's not only interesting but pertinent to the vaping picture as a whole. I have a feeling it will turn out to be much like everything else though. Nicotine and it's affects on the immune system will not only differ from one condition to the next but it will also differ from one individual to the next in each condition. So we still won't have any hard and fast info that can be applied across the board.
True as stated before in this thread that you can't believe everything that you read on the net. But a part of life is learning to listen to our bodies and your body and the many signs that it gives us won't lie. With that said using myself for an example; smoking Cigs was taking a serious toll on my health which was obvious. Lung damage in difficulty breathing, Blood Pressure as far as restriction of my blood vessels, immune system like getting sick more often; just to name a few. Well after a year and a half of not smoking and vaping; I've improved each of those conditions, not to the point that I don't know that I've ever smoked. However a marked improvement in my overall health which I can see and feel.
So if you've quit keep it up, and if you haven't well your still here on Earth so try your best to do so now; it's not too late. We're given one Temple to have and to hold
till death due us part.
So if you've quit keep it up, and if you haven't well your still here on Earth so try your best to do so now; it's not too late. We're given one Temple to have and to hold
till death due us part.
I did a search on "Vaping vs. Smoking". That exact topic title.
I came up with 27 pages here.
Search Results for Query: Vaping vs Smoking | E-Cigarette Forum
Obviously, there must be a heck of a lot of people who like to argue these "silly points".....and over, and over, and.......over again.
And quit the name calling.
(It seems like every other topic for the last year has a member calling another member a troll or an antz. Talk about schoolyard.....this has been going on for a long time though so I don't expect the forum to change, even though name calling is against the rules )
I don't think it has anything whatsoever to do with thin skin.
In our debating club in college, we had rules. In the community I live in, we have rules. In the orgnaizations I belong to, when we have meetings, we have rules. We speak a certain way to each other.....respectfully.
Name calling isn't part of acceptable behavior. (I saw Trump call a reporter a "bimbo", but let's face it, Cronkite wouldn't have done it.)
There's trashy, then there's classy.
If I wanted to go sit on a barstool in a low rent tavern, I'd be a member of some of the "other" vaping forums where name-calling, foul language, slurs, etc. are part of the social landscape....instead of this one
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I did a search on "Vaping vs. Smoking". That exact topic title.
I came up with 27 pages here.
Search Results for Query: Vaping vs Smoking | E-Cigarette Forum
Obviously, there must be a heck of a lot of people who like to argue these "silly points".....and over, and over, and.......over again.
And quit the name calling.
(It seems like every other topic for the last year has a member calling another member a troll or an antz. Talk about schoolyard.....this has been going on for a long time though so I don't expect the forum to change, even though name calling is against the rules )
Sorry, but I don't subscribe to your worldview.
I don't really care if you have done a quick search for other threads. Did you read them to see if the premise that vaping was as bad as smoking? Or were they the usual where people ask or comment on how they feel/save money/better health/eat more kale than when they were smoking? I was commenting on this particular one. This particular one features entries stating a position that is half-baked at best, then follows that up with clever things like asking about schooling, insisting that all reports are valid unless you have definitive proof otherwise, my mom is meaner than your mom.
In other words, darn fine fishing form if they weren't trolling.
For me, I'm done with anyone putting out info that is not correct. "E-Cigarette Explodes With Serious Injuries to 15 Year Old, Film at 11!" Turns out to be a 15 year old who had his 18650s loose in a pocket with keys and change.
Popcorn lung, oily lungs, immune system damage, flavors are aimed at luring in children, on and on they go.
I will rebut, anything that smacks of 'vaping bad, plain lettuce good'.
I'll thank you to keep your sniping to a minimum. It doesn't really work for me.
Your post contained name-calling, and that is what I called you out on.
Doesn't work for me.
And yeah, that IS part of my world-view.
As a mod has already warned the thread, I'm not sure why the name calling needed to be revisited...
Some people choose to react to an article about a preliminary study. I prefer to wait for the actual study before determining whether or not it is relevant to my vaping.
IMO neither side should be claiming "fact" either way about this particular issue.
Some people choose to react to an article about a preliminary study. I prefer to wait for the actual study before determining whether or not it is relevant to my vaping.
IMO neither side should be claiming "fact" either way about this particular issue.
As did yours, and that is the part of your worldview that I have little use for.Your post contained name-calling, and that is what I called you out on.
Doesn't work for me.
And yeah, that IS part of my world-view.
Calling a member ANTZ hasn't even happened in this thread. Like @Lessifer said, one would be hard pressed to find it in any other thread where they think it has occurred. Saying a member is using ANTZ rhetoric or advancing the ANTZ position isn't attacking the member, it's attacking the idea.
It's good to be aware of forum rules.
Its all a complete scam to try and get people to stop vaping, its the complete opposite, vaping doesn't make you sick, but smoking clearly does.
There are a lot of reports out there on the smoking versus vaping topic. Some read as "believable"; some don't. In the end, I can only go by what I feel, I was a 2 PAD smoker for 30+ years, and I know what my health was at the end of that "test". I've been vaping for a little more than 4 years, and I know what my health is now, which is a HECK of a lot better than when I was smoking. I think I'll trust MY reports a little more than what I've read on the Internet.
I have vaped almost 4 years smoked for 35 before vapeing and my immune system is kickin. Everyone around me is dropping like flies from a virus or flu that is going around since new years and I havent gotten it. My daughter, 18, and vapeing for a year now has not had a hint of virus and all her friends at school have been out. She used to get everything that came around. So for me I will listen to my own body and continue to vape untill it tells me otherwise.
Interesting. Can you confirm that " everyone around you who are dropping like flies " and " all your daughters friends " who are out due to the virus, are non-vapers. If so, vaping actually super boosts the immune system ?
I cant explain it otherwise. And I cant name names to protect the innocent. But none of them are vapers and some even got the flu shot, go figure?
Thin-skinned might not have been the best phrase
I supposed i'm not as offended by the ANTZ acronym as you are ! I think it's overuse has rendered it almost meaningless, and it's become a little tiring, but i'm not really offended by it's use.
Accusing someone of " using an ANTZ like argument " is an ad-hominem to me, and stating " that a train of thought leads to ANTZ policies ", is a slippery-slope argument, both logical fallacies. I think the use of the acronym out of context is weak and lazy, but i don't find it super-offensive. That's probably just me though !
I don't know what to say really, other than we should be careful not to weigh self-assessed anecdotal evidence too heavily.
Personally i haven't noticed any change to my health since vaping, positive or negative. My blood pressure is a little higher compared to my smoking days, but that's likely due to me being older and less active.
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