So when they re-publish the rules on the tickets or post it in the park, then that whole gripe is squashed.
Just keep stealth vaping.
Just keep stealth vaping.
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Vaporizer users segregated with smokers at FedEx Field - Violation of Americans with Disabilities Act?
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From what you are conveying it is already borderline draconian. Again, imagine if I am a soda drinker and told that they don't want me doing that in open stadium because of how it looks. Simply based on how it looks. And the solution, according to them, is for me to go drink my soda where all the smokers hang out.
Draconian = excessively harsh or severe.
Would me being told that if I want to drink soda, I have to do it where all the smokers are, be excessively harsh or severe? I think so. Thus vaping, being under that same rule is draconian.
I understand that others mean that it will be banned altogether but if choice is you can vape only where SHS is or not vape at all, then we are given a false choice by them who think draconian logic is somehow fair and righteous.
I did read the part about zero-nicotine in your vape. But nobody else really knows about these vape-specific issues, they only know they want to go to the game without other people blowing 'stuff' into their faces, and their kids' faces. I just think one way to gain support for vaping by the wider population is by demonstrating vaping as an improvement over smoking for everyone, not just smokers. If we piss everyone off, then any potential future support will fizzle. And, besides, if you vape with the smokers, many of those smokers will be thinking quietly that maybe they, too, could take up vaping to get off analogs (I see this phenomenon all the time at work).
But soda drinking and smoking do not appear to be related by non-drinkers of soda or non-smokers. How about a different situation? Is it draconian for a venue to allow beer drinking only within a designated beer garden portion of the venue? Maybe, but I was still happy to have my beer. A lot of places post signs that indicate that they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. Is this draconian? Again, maybe. Or, maybe it's just private property? I just don't go to places where I hate the rules.
At my local stadium, all the smoking go behind the seating area, where all the stairways are located. I can foresee groups of vapers taking over t least some of these areas. If this were to happen, everyone else would win too because then they wouldn't have to walk through all the usual cigarette smoke. But this sense of freedom and improvement can only happen when vaping is demonstrated to be an improvement.
Here in Southern California, it is just understood that nobody smokes indoors. All the vapers I see automatically go outside unless given express permission to vape indoors. Now, I am hearing about some companies that have decided to let all of their smoking employees vape at their desks (increased productivity and all). This is the way things should be, private property owners setting the boundaries for the use of legal products on their property.
navigator2011 - "I just don't go to places where I hate the rules."
That kind of reply is not always a reasonable solution.
I Love the team. I Love the name (Hail to the REDSKINS!!!!). I Love the fans and I love most of the players. I also love having found a replacement for my addiction.
It's sad we have such an incompetent if well meaning owner and I want to continue to support the team through thick and thin. In this case support means helping them find a better way to keep my Love (and $2500 per year) while keeping the level of personal inconvenience to a minimum.
All of the stadium rampways have been designated to allow tobacco use and they have some areas with TV sets so they can view the action while smoking. At any given time, several thousand people are in those areas.
A vapers section or rampways with TV sets to view the activities might be a reasonable accomodation.
That kind of reply is not always a reasonable solution.
I Love the team. I Love the name (Hail to the REDSKINS!!!!). I Love the fans and I love most of the players. I also love having found a replacement for my addiction.
It's sad we have such an incompetent if well meaning owner and I want to continue to support the team through thick and thin. In this case support means helping them find a better way to keep my Love (and $2500 per year) while keeping the level of personal inconvenience to a minimum.
All of the stadium rampways have been designated to allow tobacco use and they have some areas with TV sets so they can view the action while smoking. At any given time, several thousand people are in those areas.
A vapers section or rampways with TV sets to view the activities might be a reasonable accomodation.
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I'm not trying to be contrary, and I do get what you're saying. But there is only so much that can be done. The team and the stadium can choose to lose your business over vaping. I mean, it's a private property issue. You and I don't have a God-given right to be in that stadium, nor do we have a God-given right to vape in the seats, nor even smoke on the ramps. They do have a right to set the rules on their property. I'm sure the only reason they allow smoking on the ramps is to keep your business, while also keeping all the other peoples' business too. It can be hard to please all the people all the time.
Now, here are some questions: If they create a special vaper's area on the ramps, are they required to eject any smokers that wander in? What if the vaper's area is next to a smoker's area and then cigarette smoke wafes into the vaper's area? Should they have several vaper's areas so that people on the other side of the stadium have convenient access as well? But if they have several vaper's areas and several smoker's areas, then these areas are going to be sort of close together and it will be hard to keep all these different types of people separated. I can imagine these are examples of some of the questions these vaping vs. smoking issues are going to create.
Hey - We may not all agree it will/should work, but at least you appear to be trying to do something about it through proper channels.
My only recommendation is to spell "device" properly. I know I'm nitpicking, but any sort of formal correspondance while fighting for a cause should have proper grammer and spelling.
My only recommendation is to spell "device" properly. I know I'm nitpicking, but any sort of formal correspondance while fighting for a cause should have proper grammer and spelling.
Wrong! I am a brittle diabetic, if I need to eat or drink something, I don't give a rats ... where I am. And if someone has a problem with it so be it. I will eat before I pass out and go into shock, thank you.
As far as the OP's remarks, honestly I am offended that someone will use vaping or even smoking as an excuse to use the ADA. If you want to use eating/drinking as an example fine, if say a business says no food or drink on the door, I will regularly disregard that. They legally or even physically can't stop me from bringing a drink and a snack. If they want to stop me from vaping thats fine. I am going to protect my right to not have a diabetic coma with the ADA than throw a fit because I can't vape. Gesh!
I also have problems with businesses that do not provide accessible bathrooms. I regularly complain to them about it. It is the law that they have to provide them. Putting locks on them high up that require one hand are NOT accessible.
Sorry OP, that you can't vape where you want but try having a diabetic crisis or having an embarrassing incident in public because you can't get to a bathroom fast enough. Maybe that is TMI but sorry. You don't know what a disability is darling.
Tobacco addiction is not, will not and should not be considered a disability. The precedent it would set is so insane. Could you imagine...
Your Honor, if tobacco addicts are disabled, and fall under the ADA, then sex addicts do to, so you can't prosecute for rape, because my client was simply a victim of his addiction, and is protected by the ADA....
As BOTH an addict AND someone with a disability, I am offended at the mention of using the ADA to pressure the owner of an establishment to make the rules around your wants. Using the Ada as such a tool cheapens it, and takes its power away, and at the same time belittles true disability. I was born with two clubbed feet that were twisted all the way around to the point I could glance down and see the soles of my feet. For very valid and understandable reasons, my mother did not get my surgery until I was 5 years old, after much of the bones had decided how they were going to form themselves. They are gnarly. They hurt. I have limited steps in each day, and if the air pressure is too great from the weather, I am confined to being horizontal at times.
Granted, I try to steer clear of smokers for many reasons these days, but I would rather hobble my sorry self down to the smokers section and vape in a quiet corner than to use one of the few legal tools we have to actually make things right. Suck it up. Either be discrete, break the rules or come at this fight from another angle. The ADA is NOT your personal army.
Your Honor, if tobacco addicts are disabled, and fall under the ADA, then sex addicts do to, so you can't prosecute for rape, because my client was simply a victim of his addiction, and is protected by the ADA....
As BOTH an addict AND someone with a disability, I am offended at the mention of using the ADA to pressure the owner of an establishment to make the rules around your wants. Using the Ada as such a tool cheapens it, and takes its power away, and at the same time belittles true disability. I was born with two clubbed feet that were twisted all the way around to the point I could glance down and see the soles of my feet. For very valid and understandable reasons, my mother did not get my surgery until I was 5 years old, after much of the bones had decided how they were going to form themselves. They are gnarly. They hurt. I have limited steps in each day, and if the air pressure is too great from the weather, I am confined to being horizontal at times.
Granted, I try to steer clear of smokers for many reasons these days, but I would rather hobble my sorry self down to the smokers section and vape in a quiet corner than to use one of the few legal tools we have to actually make things right. Suck it up. Either be discrete, break the rules or come at this fight from another angle. The ADA is NOT your personal army.
Well, vaping on the ramps at the stadium is vaping in public view. Vaping in the parking lot is also vaping in public view. I doubt anyone is concerned about those places. So, I don't think the issue is about vaping or smoking in public, or even in public view. But there is no logical reason why one must vape while crammed into the seats of a stadium, with shoulders touching the people next to you (who probably don't vape or smoke). It really is a courtesy issue--I'm courteous to those around me in the stadium, and the stadium is courteous to me by providing a place where I can smoke, vape, or otherwise exhale nicotine-depleted fumes.
If there is any righteous anger to be had, I think it should be directed to those who want to ban all ecigs while continuing to milk smokers for all they're worth.
If there is any righteous anger to be had, I think it should be directed to those who want to ban all ecigs while continuing to milk smokers for all they're worth.
spawnsharks says- "Either be discrete, break the rules or come at this fight from another angle."
I am looking for that other angle. As a caretaker for disabled persons, the ADA comes to mind frequently but if someone has another suggestion I am open to listening.
I am looking for that other angle. As a caretaker for disabled persons, the ADA comes to mind frequently but if someone has another suggestion I am open to listening.
retired1 - At the moment they seem to have NO rules and stadium staff seem to be making it up as they go along as enforcement is inconsistent and seems arbitrary. There is nothing mentioned in either the Fan Code of Conduct, the ticket stub, posted online or anywhere else within the stadium that references vaping. I have been trying to contact any member of management to find out what real rules exist and where they can be found. I agree it's their stadium and they can make any rules they want but they do have a responsibility to make those rules known to the public.
After reading all the replys to date I must say I am inclined to go on my own rant.
I want to thank all those members who made recommendations and suggestions for how to improve the situation.
Some replys have been constructive and some posters have suggested I should just leave well enough alone and consider the current status as a win and I am inclined to follow their suggestion for the remainder of the season.
Regarding numerous other replies I have received on this site, I must say I am shocked and dismayed that so many choose to be judgmental and seem to embrace being victimized and reveling in their disabilities. I have always told my child that she is only as disabled as she allows others to believe she is and that she should always strive to follow the example of her Grandfather who never allows his condition to keep him from doing whatever he wants when he wants to do it. I encourage her to avoid blaming her disability or using it as a crutch and to realize she just needs to do things in her own special way to accomplish her goals.
I realize I am now being judgmental myself and sharing that judgment in this forum will likely be unpopular but it seems some members prefer to criticize rather than provide the constructive recommendations that were requested in the original post.
Quite frankly, I was more concerned that using a racially tainted term like segregation would be something that might be frowned upon as the plight of vapers seems minor in relation to racial struggles but that was the best term I could think of for what happened to me.
My asking if the ADA might be a good tool to combat the issue was really no different than asking if I should use a hammer or screwdriver to install a nail. I just can't fathom the irate responses and yes I do recall the days before curb cuts, reasonable accomodations, and the creation of the ADA.
The definition of disability is broad and still evolving. My mother's death certificate listed Tobaccoism as her cause of death at age 82 and I believe it may be a condition that qualifies as a disability. As for the causes of disability and those who suggest disability happened to them and was not a choice, that may be true in their individual cases but I will also say that many bad habits can cause disabilities. I can cite poor diet (a choice) and diabetes as just one example.
I am just as entitled to believe tobacco addiction is a disability as anyone else is entitled to believe their condition is a disability.
I encourage all disabled members to be more sympathetic to the plight of others no matter how bad they believe their own special situation may be in relation to the perceived disabilities or lack of disability of others.
Go Redskins!!!! Go Vapers!!!!
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!!!
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Disney does the same thing, so if I want to vape there I try to do it when nobody is around. If it offends people, regardless of what you perceive the dangers to be, it is the management's call to tell you to stop or leave.
I'm not pro-vaping, I'm pro harm reduction. If vaping turns out to be significantly harmful, I'll support banning it in some - perhaps most - public situations.
As it is, it appears to not be significantly harmful, so it's possibly a *massively* useful public health tool. It could save millions upon millions of lives, if it isn't banned.
Some of us simply believe that the sense of entitlement displayed by many vapers risks alienating the non-vaping population, and reinforcing the idea that the purpose of vaping is simply to evade the public smoking bans, and thus contributes to getting it banned.
As to the comparison with eating food or drinking - no, not really. People expect you to eat or drink at a sports match. It's normal, and doesn't (in itself) disturb anyone. Like it or not, people's expectations matter. If I sat down next to you at a quiet area of a stadium and started playing loud techno, the staff might well tell me to turn it off, or to go and play it somewhere where it wouldn't disturb other people (such as somewhere which was already noisy).
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Just because something isn't harmful to other people doesn't mean it isn't annoying. My wife can't stand it when I vape near her, she hates the smell of all my flavors. Much better than cigarettes I'm sure, but she doesn't want it around her.
I don't have a problem with that. There are plenty of things I don't want people doing around me. Videotaping me, playing loud music, .........ing in public, walking around naked, etc. None of them hurt me per se, but it doesn't mean I want them around me.
I read recently about people banning Google Glass in their restaurants, and I can agree with them. Whether or not they are recording me, they have a camera pointed at me. That would make my meal far less enjoyable.
Vaping is too new for people to know what it is. And even if I was sitting behind you at the stadium, I really wouldn't want to have to squint through your .3 ohm 8-microcoil dripper with 100% VG juice. I'm sure nobody would say anything if you just held your vapor in or blew it into your jacket or something.
I don't have a problem with that. There are plenty of things I don't want people doing around me. Videotaping me, playing loud music, .........ing in public, walking around naked, etc. None of them hurt me per se, but it doesn't mean I want them around me.
I read recently about people banning Google Glass in their restaurants, and I can agree with them. Whether or not they are recording me, they have a camera pointed at me. That would make my meal far less enjoyable.
Vaping is too new for people to know what it is. And even if I was sitting behind you at the stadium, I really wouldn't want to have to squint through your .3 ohm 8-microcoil dripper with 100% VG juice. I'm sure nobody would say anything if you just held your vapor in or blew it into your jacket or something.
One should not visit FexEx Field- not because of silly vaping rules, but because of what D. Snyder has done to the 'Skins...
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