Vaporizer users segregated with smokers at FedEx Field - Violation of Americans with Disabilities Act?

[Jman8]

spawnsharks says- "Either be discrete, break the rules or come at this fight from another angle."

I am looking for that other angle. As a caretaker for disabled persons, the ADA comes to mind frequently but if someone has another suggestion I am open to listening.

I would suggest ACLU.

Though can't say I would strongly suggest this, just a consideration. I'm thinking if you are doing something that is not-smoking and feeling harassed and/or told if you want to use your device, you have to go where smokers are, that ACLU would find that very interesting, and possibly want to fight it, along with you.

 

[Jman8]

I'm not pro-vaping, I'm pro harm reduction. If vaping turns out to be significantly harmful, I'll support banning it in some - perhaps most - public situations.

As it is, it appears to not be significantly harmful, so it's possibly a *massively* useful public health tool. It could save millions upon millions of lives, if it isn't banned.

Some of us simply believe that the sense of entitlement displayed by many vapers risks alienating the non-vaping population, and reinforcing the idea that the purpose of vaping is simply to evade the public smoking bans, and thus contributes to getting it banned.

As to the comparison with eating food or drinking - no, not really. People expect you to eat or drink at a sports match. It's normal, and doesn't (in itself) disturb anyone. Like it or not, people's expectations matter. If I sat down next to you at a quiet area of a stadium and started playing loud techno, the staff might well tell me to turn it off, or to go and play it somewhere where it wouldn't disturb other people (such as somewhere which was already noisy).

"This sense of entitlement" thing is akin to eating and drinking in public. Apart from persons that have some legitimate (checked by medical doctor) disability where they must drink or eat something, people don't need it. And surely no one needs to drink alcoholic beverages in any public venue, but we do tolerate that as a society and as you have alluded, have come to accept that as normal. Yet, we also know alcohol clearly harms user and has potential to kill others when person gets behind wheel. So, you'd think our expectation would be don't do this in public unless you can prove / will prove to anyone that asks, that you will not be driving after imbibing. Yet, we don't have that expectation and instead just tolerate it. I think about that stuff while at a stadium, cause you see people who are seemingly very interesting in drinking to get buzzed, and then acting out while in stadium. I, as non drinker, have different expectations, yet also have high tolerance for what they are up to.

And it is normalized, I truly believe, because of 'sense of entitlement' that is afforded to users in public. Plus with whole amendment stuff that our politics had to deal with regarding this particular substance. Gonna be really hard now to ban alcohol from society, even while some public places will not allow it, unless you get special permit.

With food in stadiums, people will take a whole lot of liberties, all in vein of entitlement, when eating. Carrying it around openly and not caring if it smells to any passerby's. Eating in own seats and not caring a whole lot if stuff spills or litters the ground. When done in stadium, leaving it on the ground, not really caring if it gets in way of others. All that equals sense of entitlement that all of us who choose not to eat in stadiums must tolerate or leave if we don't like that policy.

Ecigs would honestly have far less issues. Plus, in OP of this thread, it was suggested that a place be designated for vapers only. Thus, having a lot less chance to cause disturbance from other stadium goers. Yet, even that, and even on a vaping forum, is not fully acceptable. Everything we can possibly bring up (and I do mean everything) that could possibly be done in a stadium environment has at least two ways it can be spun - one way as no big deal, ought to be okay for everyone there and another way that says this thing could be problematic to some person there, and thus must not be done out of respect for everyone. I honestly cannot think of an exception to this rule. If you can, let me know!

 

[generic mutant]

Exception: watching the game, quietly

All true enough.

Again, I think it boils down to 'cultural sensitivity' to an issue - I wouldn't drink beer, or eat a bacon sandwich, at a sports match in many Islamic countries. Here, I'd think absolutely nothing of it.

With a pursuit as new as vaping, there are no cultural norms anywhere - everywhere is a foreign country, to a degree. What we perceive to be a legitimate expression of our rights can easily be perceived as an inappropriate infringement on somebody else's. Especially true when the closest (though flawed) comparison, smoking, is so widely hated.

FWIW, in this particular case, I'd do it standing up and in sensible amounts without feeling like it was a problem (don't like the smell? You can move further away...). Sitting down is a bit of a tricky issue, because if the people near you don't like the smell or visual distraction there isn't a lot they can do about it. They have the *expectation* of not having it near them, and they're stuck with it. They're going to have a miserable time, and blame it on you.

And yes, I agree, objectively it shouldn't be that way when people are drinking beer and throwing food around - it is a prejudice, plain and simple. It's a culture that doesn't like second hand smoke, and it'll take a while for the distinction to be recognised.

Suggestion of having designated vaping areas sounds like a sensible enough compromise.

 

[Jman8]

Exception: watching the game, quietly while vaping quietly

Fixed it for you.

 

[wv2win]

Spend $40000 on an attorney who will take your case, file a civil suit and be laughed out of court. They don't have to have a smoking section, nor vaping section. Last I checked, nicotine addiction isn't a legal disability. They don't have to accommodate those with such an addiction. If you don't like the smoking section, don't go there.

Your rude, nasty and condescending comments and attitude does nothing but turn people off from posting a genuine question and concern they have, especially a new person like the OP who was asking for help. If you don't agree with the OP's question, instead of the snide reply, why don't you just keep your condescending comments to yourself.

 

[peterforpats]

the only disability the op has is this- he is a redskins fan. vaping should be the least of your concerns compared to the years of therapy it will take to get over being addicted to the redskins. try and wean yourself by getting to know and like a real professional football team..... that's all i got....good luck.....

 

[wv2win]

I did read the part about zero-nicotine in your vape. But nobody else really knows about these vape-specific issues, they only know they want to go to the game without other people blowing 'stuff' into their faces, and their kids' faces...............

My question is, why when someone wants to vape in public but do so respectfully, those who are against it, always state that if you vape in public, you are blowing vaper in children's faces??? What is the point in making such an ignorant comment like that?? It is actually quite insulting to state that those who vape openly but respectfully are really trying to blow vapor in children's faces. I would love for someone to provide proof of this action by vapers since it is stated frequently. Or is it similar to the logic used in the National Enquirer?

 

[fiddleshe]

As for the causes of disability and those who suggest disability happened to them and was not a choice, that may be true in their individual cases but I will also say that many bad habits can cause disabilities. I can cite poor diet (a choice) and diabetes as just one example.

Grrrrr. Wow so little people understand about diabetes. Yeah you just keep thinking that.

 

[navigator2011]

My question is, why when someone wants to vape in public but do so respectfully, those who are against it, always state that if you vape in public, you are blowing vaper in children's faces??? What is the point in making such an ignorant comment like that?? It is actually quite insulting to state that those who vape openly but respectfully are really trying to blow vapor in children's faces. I would love for someone to provide proof of this action by vapers since it is stated frequently. Or is it similar to the logic used in the National Enquirer?

I made the comment as a non-smoker/non-vaper at a stadium would make it, to make a point to the OP. As I said in the first part of the comment, nobody else knows about these vape-specific issues, and nobody is going to be so patient either. Their only experience is with cigarette smoke, and there is zero tolerance for cigarette smoke now days. Whenever I smoked in a stadium back in the day, it always seemed that the breeze would carry the smoke into someone's face down the way. Then the nasty stares would begin. Flash forward two decades, and now all the smokers are relegated to the ramps to watch the game on TV--could just stay home and do that. You don't think that could happen with vaping? I think it could, and I also think belligerent vaping stands to hurt more than it cures.

 

[wv2win]

I made the comment as a non-smoker/non-vaper at a stadium would make it, to make a point to the OP. As I said in the first part of the comment, nobody else knows about these vape-specific issues, and nobody is going to be so patient either. Their only experience is with cigarette smoke, and there is zero tolerance for cigarette smoke now days. Whenever I smoked in a stadium back in the day, it always seemed that the breeze would carry the smoke into someone's face down the way. Then the nasty stares would begin. Flash forward two decades, and now all the smokers are relegated to the ramps to watch the game on TV--could just stay home and do that. You don't think that could happen with vaping? I think it could, and I also think belligerent vaping stands to hurt more than it cures.

Considering the nature of vapor as well as vaping in a respectful manner, your "blowing vapor" in childrens' faces is still an absurd assertion. It's nothing like analog smoke. When vaping respectfully, no one is blowing anything in anyone's face. When you can't support your position without making extreme, ridiculous examples, it simply demonstrates the intellectually weak nature of your position.

 

[navigator2011]

Considering the nature of vapor as well as vaping in a respectful manner, your "blowing vapor" in childrens' faces is still an absurd assertion. It's nothing like analog smoke. When vaping respectfully, no one is blowing anything in anyone's face. When you can't support your position without making extreme, ridiculous examples, it simply demonstrates the intellectually weak nature of your position.

You are misunderstanding my use of the word "blowing." When you exhale smoke or vape in a respectful manner, and then the breeze carries it down the way into some else's face, they will be generally accuse of "blowing" it in their face. As far as many non-smokers are concerned, if you didn't exhale stuff, then it wouldn't wafe in their face. I've seen this reaction first hand--it doesn't matter that the breeze carried the smoke or vapor, all that matters is that you exhaled the stuff. And if the breeze carries the smoke or vapor into a kid's face, they would love to kill for it. My position is intellectually weak? Well, fine, then just carry on as you were. I leave it to you to learn the hard way.

 

[Jman8]

My question is, why when someone wants to vape in public but do so respectfully, those who are against it, always state that if you vape in public, you are blowing vaper in children's faces??? What is the point in making such an ignorant comment like that?? It is actually quite insulting to state that those who vape openly but respectfully are really trying to blow vapor in children's faces. I would love for someone to provide proof of this action by vapers since it is stated frequently. Or is it similar to the logic used in the National Enquirer?

IMO, this logic is similar to saying if you are a buyer of juice with flavors, then you are part of the rude vaping crowd contributing to the idea that eCigs are marketed to children. And then further that logic by saying that out of respect for vaping over the long term, current vapers must stop being disrespectful and instead only buy non-flavored juices. Perhaps in 30 years when more is known about safety of juice and when the public is more informed, then, and only then, can we go back to flavored juices. In the meantime, it is simply disrespectful to place your addiction above the safety of children.

Yep, IMO, that is very close to same logic being employed on the indoor vaping controversy here on a vaping forum.

And just to be clear, I would strongly disagree with both uses of the term 'disrespectful' in such scenarios.

 

[Jman8]

Actually, to add to that logic, we could say that not only should you only vape where you can smoke, but you should also only vape flavors that smokers get to enjoy, where and when you vape. Again, that would be same logic at work, and those that agree with it, ought to understand that this is all just a matter of 'respect' as defined by those who think they have intellectual high ground on this controversy.

 

[stevegmu]

Your rude, nasty and condescending comments and attitude does nothing but turn people off from posting a genuine question and concern they have, especially a new person like the OP who was asking for help. If you don't agree with the OP's question, instead of the snide reply, why don't you just keep your condescending comments to yourself.

Some people need the truth; others the fairy tale. Send him some CASSA propaganda and tell him it everything will be all right.

 

[navigator2011]

You are misunderstanding my use of the word "blowing." When you exhale smoke or vape in a respectful manner, and then the breeze carries it down the way into some else's face, they will be generally accuse of "blowing" it in their face. As far as many non-smokers are concerned, if you didn't exhale stuff, then it wouldn't wafe in their face. I've seen this reaction first hand--it doesn't matter that the breeze carried the smoke or vapor, all that matters is that you exhaled the stuff. And if the breeze carries the smoke or vapor into a kid's face, they would love to kill for it. My position is intellectually weak? Well, fine, then just carry on as you were. I leave it to you to learn the hard way.

Just to be clear myself, I am saying that non-smokers at the stadium are not going to use logical analysis to weigh the differences between smoke and vapor. Instead, they will just go through the usual knee-jerk response of caughing and gaging, getting overly angry, and then accusing the vaper of blowing "smoke" in others' faces. It is an irrational response that vapers just have to deal with, thanks to over 30 years of media conditioning about cigarette smoke.

 

[wv2win]

Some people need the truth; others the fairy tale. Send him some CASSA propaganda and tell him it everything will be all right.

You wouldn't know the truth if it smacked you in the face. Your constant negative comments towards CASAA and their work to keep vaping available for all, tells us all we need to know about your agenda.

 

[wv2win]

You are misunderstanding my use of the word "blowing." When you exhale smoke or vape in a respectful manner, and then the breeze carries it down the way into some else's face, they will be generally accuse of "blowing" it in their face. As far as many non-smokers are concerned, if you didn't exhale stuff, then it wouldn't wafe in their face. I've seen this reaction first hand--it doesn't matter that the breeze carried the smoke or vapor, all that matters is that you exhaled the stuff. And if the breeze carries the smoke or vapor into a kid's face, they would love to kill for it. My position is intellectually weak? Well, fine, then just carry on as you were. I leave it to you to learn the hard way.

I and many of my vaping friends have vaped in a crowded sports stadium. We did so in our seats, respectfully and with common sense. Nothing blew in anyone's face and no one complained. In fact, just the opposite. We had four separate individuals ask us to advise them on vaping and what to buy for a loved one or friends. Your knee jerk response that vaping and smoking are the same provides the wrong perception to the uninformed. Maybe when you have vaped for 3 - 4 years in many different situations like many of us, you will see it differently, as long as you are not PC whipped.

 

[SirSteve]

As long we exhale a cloud of something certain people will always call it smoke. Just like when a car overheats or blows a radiator hose, it amazes me how many think the car smoking, on fire, or about to burst into flames. I salute those who are trying to educate others, however it is an uphill battle at best. Some people are ignorant by choice, and they'll fight till their last breathe to remain so.

 

[navigator2011]

I and many of my vaping friends have vaped in a crowded sports stadium. We did so in our seats, respectfully and with common sense. Nothing blew in anyone's face and no one complained. In fact, just the opposite. We had four separate individuals ask us to advise them on vaping and what to buy for a loved one or friends. Your knee jerk response that vaping and smoking are the same provides the wrong perception to the uninformed. Maybe when you have vaped for 3 - 4 years in many different situations like many of us, you will see it differently, as long as you are not PC whipped.

OK, I think you and I are talking about two different things. That's cool. At any rate, I am glad things are going well for you in your area. I guess it will take a while before people here in Southern California catch up.

 

[navigator2011]

As long we exhale a cloud of something certain people will always call it smoke. Just like when a car overheats or blows a radiator hose, it amazes me how many think the car smoking, on fire, or about to burst into flames. I salute those who are trying to educate others, however it is an uphill battle at best. Some people are ignorant by choice, and they'll fight till their last breathe to remain so.

This is, in fact, the point I have been trying to point out.