Vapour occasionally tastes strange

[toughdiamond]

My vaping pen usually works fine, but recently the taste of my usual liquid (15mg/ml nicotine, unflavoured, mostly VG) suddenly went kind of sour on me. I couldn't taste it much at all when I inhaled (which itself seemed odd because I usually get a sweet, satisfying nicotine hit), and when I exhaled it through my nose the sensation gave me the subjective impression that something in the vapour was burnt and I felt very slightly nauseous. I've read that vapour can contain formaldehyde and I immediately suspected that might be the problem, though I also read that it wouldn't happen unless the coil temperature was unnaturally high and that the result would be a taste so foul that the user would not inhale any more of it - to do so was likened to eating burgers that had been charred to a crisp. Naturally I stopped using it, but the strangeness of the taste wasn't that extreme, just a fairly clear warning that something wasn't quite right. I swapped out the heating coil (which I hadn't used for all that long - it had vaped maybe 10ml of liquid when it went wrong) with a new one, and that restored things back to normal.

Some time later when I'd vaped maybe 30ml of liquid through the new coil, I started to notice the same effect, only it was less noticeable than previously. I've read in the UK gov's Science & Technology Report on E-cigarettes that "A study looked at the formation of formaldehyde, which is very toxic. [...] It is an acrid taste called dry puffing, which is unlikely to occur in real-life conditions." So my questions are:
Do you think I'm getting a small amount of formaldehyde under real-life conditions, or is what I've read correct, i.e. that the effect is very unlikely and it would be so acrid and intense that I wouldn't want to continue inhaling for a million dollars?
Do you folks always replace your heating coils as soon as you detect the faintest whiff that something is wrong, or do you take a more relaxed approach?

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

When ejuice starts tasting bad or how you describe change the coil. Some coils are just bad, it happens. When the cotton begins to burn(because it isn't getting enough ejuice to the coil) stop immed. and change the coil. Are you using mostly vg? It is much thicker and you need to give the wicking time to resaturate before taking the next puff. You could also thin the vg with dw. Most people use under 10%

 

[toughdiamond]

Yes it's mostly VG, hard to know the exact water content because I use a mixture of a purchased unflavoured nicotine juice that doesn't state how much water is in it with VG containing 11% DW by weight.....I reckon the final water content is around 10%, and I've noticed that if I increase the water much above that it starts spitting.

Interestingly though, what I've been doing is to suck quite hard on the pen to draw as much vapour as possible within the time, for about 12 seconds - that's about the longest I can run it for before it automatically turns off. I've also been doing that 3 times in a row with only a few seconds between each, so I wonder if my vaping technique has been drying the wick? You can probably see how I've going for the biggest possible nicotine hit (no doubt unconsciously striving to satisfy my nicotine craving). So it might make more sense for me to up the concentration of nicotine (currently 15mg/ml) instead of pulling so long and hard on the pen. Does that make sense?

 

[jandrew]

Yes it's mostly VG, hard to know the exact water content because I use a mixture of a purchased unflavoured nicotine juice that doesn't state how much water is in it with VG containing 11% DW by weight.....I reckon the final water content is around 10%, and I've noticed that if I increase the water much above that it starts spitting.

Interestingly though, what I've been doing is to suck quite hard on the pen to draw as much vapour as possible within the time, for about 12 seconds - that's about the longest I can run it for before it automatically turns off. I've also been doing that 3 times in a row with only a few seconds between each, so I wonder if my vaping technique has been drying the wick? You can probably see how I've going for the biggest possible nicotine hit (no doubt unconsciously striving to satisfy my nicotine craving). So it might make more sense for me to up the concentration of nicotine (currently 15mg/ml) instead of pulling so long and hard on the pen. Does that make sense?

I would say your technique is indeed drying the wick faster than it can pull in fresh juice. You are also right that you (if you want to continue with your current equipment) should up your nic level and use shorter draws --- perhaps 18 - 24mg with standard nic, or higher using nic salts (for less throat hit).

Your other option is to obtain a device/atomizer combination that allows you to up the power and produce more vapor per "puff".

 

[Doctorvapes]

As for the formaldehyde question as *i* know and I don't claim to know any better than anyone else.

Formaldehyde is only detected during dry hits when too much heat is being supplied to the atomizer.

Also, I had heard that for this to occur you need to vape at 5 volts or above but I do not know how true that is but the first bit of information came off of a government website.

 

[vapdivrr]

You can continuously draw vapor for 12 seconds? That's definitely asking a lot from a pen style coil, especially with all vg. So not surprised your drying out the wick or reducing the span of coil. Most of the pen style, mtl devices are meant for much shorter puffs like a cig at higher nic amounts. You might of started out like that, but then lowered your nic and now your simply pulling more to make up for it. Like mentioned already , you can up your nic, or get a device that can handle more volume. If you choose the latter, you will be vaping more liquid, which imo is might not be the best thing

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[toughdiamond]

You can continuously draw vapor for 12 seconds?

Yes.

That's definitely asking a lot from a pen style coil, especially with all vg. So not surprised your drying out the wick or reducing the span of coil. Most of the pen style, mtl devices are meant for much shorter puffs like a cig at higher nic amounts.

That would explain what's been happening.

You might of started out like that, but then lowered your nic and now your simply pulling more to make up for it.

That's exactly what I did. The reduction was an attempt to wean myself off nicotine, but I found myself compensating by pulling more. I'd figured that the "fidget value" would be reduced if I simply pulled less often to reduce the dose, but it looks like that's what I'll have to do.

you (if you want to continue with your current equipment) should up your nic level and use shorter draws --- perhaps 18 - 24mg with standard nic, or higher using nic salts (for less throat hit).

Hitherto I've been diluting to 15mg/ml from 32mg/ml, so no problem getting back to the high concentration. If I understand you right, you're saying the throat hit might increase and that I can reduce it with nic salt? In my case I suspect the drop in the throat hit was a factor in getting me drawing for so long (I'm an ex-smoker), so I might benefit from the increase, but I'll see how it goes.

Formaldehyde is only detected during dry hits when too much heat is being supplied to the atomizer.
Also, I had heard that for this to occur you need to vape at 5 volts or above but I do not know how true that is but the first bit of information came off of a government website.

I heard that too. I gather the "formaldehyde comes out above 5 volts, therefore vaping is highly dangerous" thing came from a letter in the New England Journal of Medicine that was widely criticised on the grounds that almost everybody vapes below 5 volts and that the authors were just measuring what would happen with repeated dry puffing, which nobody would ever do. As far as I can see, voltage is irrelevent, it's coil temperature that matters, but nobody seems to have looked at that. Thing is, it looks like my wicks have been drying out, leading to dry puffs. It would be interesting to see whether that vapour contained any formaldehyde, because if it did, then what we have is a real-life situation that might not be all that rare in which the vapour becomes toxic. Nothing that can't be put right with warnings about technique and a safety overtemperature cut-out (if that's not already being done - my pen cuts out if I push it too far but it clearly doesn't respond fast enough to stop dry puffing completely).

 

[toughdiamond]

Upping the nicotine concentration to 32mg/ml has definitely made it easier for me to take shorter and less frequent puffs, as expected. I rather like the increased throat hit and the (presumed) higher spike of nicotine. More like a real cigarette. I miss the "fidget value" of using the device more frequently though.

Still, by a coincidence one of the people I'm staying with has all kinds of genuine clinical sensitivities to mould and fumes, and has become nervous about inhaling my second-hand vapour (why was I not told this this before I got used to vaping constantly while we were watching TV?), so now I have to keep nipping out for a quick puff, just like in my smoking days.

Anyway constantly vaping low-strength nicotine probably wasn't doing me any good either. I felt healthier this morning than I've felt in the mornings for some time. Could be coincidence, could be I'd been vaping something slightly toxic before, though like I said before, the vapour never tasted all that weird or acrid, it was very subtle, and I didn't keep vaping it when it did taste questionable. It's high time somebody analysed vapour in real-life situations. I've got a feeling they'd find something dodgy with some devices. There was a school of thought in the health community that high-nicotine cigarettes might be safer than low-nicotine, because the smoker wouldn't need to smoke so much to get their fix. So then they go and put a legal limit on nicotine concentration in e-liquid. Go figure.

 

[United States]

12 seconds? Heavens to Mergatroid.
Human vaccum cleaner action there.

Perhaps a device with a temperature control should be considered. And if you drew in for 12 seconds, I can understand why the room mate would be nervous. Good Gosh that must've been a room filler cloud each time. Have mercy on those other folks, why don't ya?

I'd be more worried about the device exploding than formaldehyde with a 12 second pull on a pen.

Many use sub ohm devices so that a little bitty amount of nicotine is all that is needed. Something like a Vapresso Cascade One pen with a 0.3 ohm coil is a cloud machine that makes it so high doses of nicotine is not needed. You can adjust the airflow for a nice warm mouth to lung drag or direct lung that sucker til your ears turn purple....

 

[toughdiamond]

12 seconds? Heavens to Mergatroid.
Human vaccum cleaner action there.

Perhaps a device with a temperature control should be considered. And if you drew in for 12 seconds, I can understand why the room mate would be nervous. Good Gosh that must've been a room filler cloud each time. Have mercy on those other folks, why don't ya?

Well,
1. I held the entire 12 seconds' worth of vapour in my lungs for a while, to get most of the nicotine into my blood, and by the time I exhaled there was little or no visible vapour left. It's a large, well-ventilated room. Nobody could see or smell anything. As a rough estimate I would have been inhaling about a litre of vapour in the 12 seconds (about double the average lung tidal volume), though I've not estimated it very carefully. When I say I was vaping constantly, I overstated the real situation. I'd do 3 lungfuls and then I'd wait at least 10 minutes before I had another go, as I didn't want the device to overheat. I was getting through about 2ml of e-liquid in a day.
2. They gave their permission for me to vape in their presence, without any pressure from me. At the time I started I was only using gum, and would have been quite willing to stick to that if any reluctance had been expressed.
3. According to the UK House Of Commons Science & Technology Committee, the risk of vaping to others in the room is "miniscule."
4. Immediately on hearing of their new concern over my vaping near them, I ceased.
I rest my case

I'd be more worried about the device exploding than formaldehyde with a 12 second pull on a pen.

I didn't notice the outside of the device getting hot. The only time it's been warm is towards the end of a battery recharge. The thing cuts out automatically after about 18 seconds, which I guess is what the makers consider a safe limit, though they don't mention that feature in their documentation. It's a JoyeTech and it says "EGO A|O ECO" on it, which I take to be the model type. Anyway, I got away with it, and now I've switched to the occasional pull using 32mg/ml nicotine, there's no longer a problem.

Many use sub ohm devices so that a little bitty amount of nicotine is all that is needed. Something like a Vapresso Cascade One pen with a 0.3 ohm coil is a cloud machine that makes it so high doses of nicotine is not needed. You can adjust the airflow for a nice warm mouth to lung drag or direct lung that sucker til your ears turn purple....

Thanks. That sounds like it might be the way to go if I encounter a failure with my supply of high-concentration nicotine. Unless I somehow manage to reduce my addiction to nicotine, but I don't see that as likely in the near future.

 

[smacuser]

You've been vaping for almost 10 years?

 

[toughdiamond]

You've been vaping for almost 10 years?

No, I started vaping around 2009 but gave up when the primitive e-cigs I was using stopped working. I limped along with gum (and tobacco relapses) for a few years until the supply of 4mg unflavoured gum dried up in the UK where I usually live (don't like mint, fruit flavoured or those crunchy-coated things), then I got a vaping pen a year or two ago and found the technology has improved, so I'm hoping it'll work out better this time round.