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pinellaspete

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Str8V8ping,

I did a bit of research on the caramel color and this is what I found:

Carmel color is bitter, tastes like burnt sugar and is acidic. It is actually so acidic that bacteria won't grow in it. It is the world's most used food coloring. Food and beverage manufacturers use it to protect their flavorings from oxidation and color their food or beverage.

Here is an interesting video: Secrets of Caramel Color - YouTube

Here is a Wikipedia article: Caramel color - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Perhaps our juice vendors are using caramel coloring in place of or in addition to lemon or vinegar to lower their juices PH?

Anybody have ideas?

Pete
 

Str8V8ping

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Str8V8ping,

I did a bit of research on the caramel color and this is what I found:

Carmel color is bitter, tastes like burnt sugar and is acidic. It is actually so acidic that bacteria won't grow in it. It is the world's most used food coloring. Food and beverage manufacturers use it to protect their flavorings from oxidation and color their food or beverage.

Here is an interesting video: Secrets of Caramel Color - YouTube

Here is a Wikipedia article: Caramel color - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Perhaps our juice vendors are using caramel coloring in place of or in addition to lemon or vinegar to lower their juices PH?

Anybody have ideas?

Pete

Wow. What type/class to use though ? Loranns sells caramel color but not sure if its the right one .

Lorann Food Coloring 4 oz bottle, 13 colors available | eBay
 
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pinellaspete

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I went to the DD Williamson website and I think it would be either a class 3 or 4. I tried signing up for a free sample of a Class 4 liquid but for some reason the page would lock-up when I pressed submit. I'll try it again maybe tomorrow.

While I was on that site it dawned on me that one of my friends who vapes nothing but top shelf RY4s, has a favorite. I can't remember who makes it but I'll find out next Tuesday when I go back to work. Anyway, that RY4 has a very distinct flavor of burnt sugar! It is actually rather pleasant and smooth IMHO.

We may be on to something!

Note to self: buy some Caramel Color.

Pete
 

Str8V8ping

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I went to the DD Williamson website and I think it would be either a class 3 or 4. I tried signing up for a free sample of a Class 4 liquid but for some reason the page would lock-up when I pressed submit. I'll try it again maybe tomorrow.

While I was on that site it dawned on me that one of my friends who vapes nothing but top shelf RY4s, has a favorite. I can't remember who makes it but I'll find out next Tuesday when I go back to work. Anyway, that RY4 has a very distinct flavor of burnt sugar! It is actually rather pleasant and smooth IMHO.

We may be on to something!

Note to self: Buy some Caramel Color.

Pete

That burnt sugar is in most Ry4's . Its actually Ethyl Maltol . I found a actual flavoring that is the same as EM though which is HC caramel .Burnt sugar/toasted caramel/cotton candy
 

Lyndagayle

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I went to the DD Williamson website and I think it would be either a class 3 or 4. I tried signing up for a free sample of a Class 4 liquid but for some reason the page would lock-up when I pressed submit. I'll try it again maybe tomorrow.

While I was on that site it dawned on me that one of my friends who vapes nothing but top shelf RY4s, has a favorite. I can't remember who makes it but I'll find out next Tuesday when I go back to work. Anyway, that RY4 has a very distinct flavor of burnt sugar! It is actually rather pleasant and smooth IMHO.

We may be on to something!

Note to self: Buy some Caramel Color.

Pete

Sounds like the description of Prime Vaping RY4. That stuff is fantastic! A light burnt sugar/caramel taste, not overpowering and blends so well with the natural tobacco flavor Jon uses. Great stuff and the best RY4 I've tasted thus far.
 

Str8V8ping

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Sounds like the description of Prime Vaping RY4. That stuff is fantastic! A light burnt sugar/caramel taste, not overpowering and blends so well with the natural tobacco flavor Jon uses. Great stuff and the best RY4 I've tasted thus far.

If you like PV ry4 you need to try GreenHouseOne RY4 .Its even more amazing .


Back on topic though , Iv been trying to find what coloring are used in ejuice and flavorings like capellas and cant find much . I have found hints that point to class 5 color . It seems class 5 is also the most widely used .We are def. on to something here .Iv also read a thread about different PH in different flavors and they range in PH for 6 - 8
 
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Sdh

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Just a quick thought. I use regular vinegar all the time in cooking. If a food is overly seasoned hot such as one who put to much chili pepper in a chili I will use either a touch of vinegar or lemon.

I do know vendors do use citric acid in the mix. (Not all). I am assuming it is more of a preservative than anything else.
I decided to try science and placed a few drops in a new black n mild recipe. I cannot detect a vinegar taste. I would also assume citric or vinegar may tone down a cinnamon flavor as well. The small sample I have now I cannot say its better or worse....I can usually tell when I first vape in the morning. The palate has rested...LOL

I will try to remember and post my finding after one bottle has cured for a week. I am using regular white vinegar.
 

Str8V8ping

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I also tried some apple cider vinegar in a rice crispy treat juice i made . I only put 3 drops in a 5ml bottle of it but i cant taste the vinegar but it does seem to make the marshmallow come out a little more . Not a major difference but it is a bit more tasty . I split a 10ml bottle up to test between the two .
 

pinellaspete

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Wow guys this is going great!

And Lynda you are right again! My friend's favorite is Prime Vaping RY4 now that you mentioned it!

Okay...I did some more research. Found some more interesting stuff...

From Wikipedia about Vegetable Glycerin:

In foods and beverages, glycerol serves as a humectant, solvent, and sweetener, and may help preserve foods. It is also used as filler in commercially prepared low-fat foods (e.g., cookies), and as a thickening agent in liqueurs. Glycerol and water are used to preserve certain types of leaves. As a sugar substitute, it has approximately 27 calories per teaspoon (sugar has 20) and is 60% as sweet as sucrose.


The juices we are making are pretty sweet. 30% VG mix = 30% sugar, well times 60% = 18% sugar(sweetness). Now if you are talking a 50%, mix that would be 50% sugar, okay....times 60% still equals 30% sugar(sweetness)! Perhaps the vinegar or lemon juice is used to CUT the sweetness level and allow the flavors to come through? They are also saying VG is a preservative.

Okay...Something else that is interesting and concerns us in the Wikipedia article:

When used as a primary true alcohol-free (e.g. no alcohol (i.e. ethanol) ever being used) botanical extraction solvent in innovative non-tincture based 'dynamic' methodologies, glycerol has been shown, both in literature and through extraction applications, to possess a high degree of extractive versatility for botanicals including removal of numerous constituents and complex compounds, with an extractive power that can rival that of alcohol or water/alcohol solutions. That glycerol possess such high extractive power assumes that glycerol, with its tri-atomic structure, is utilized with dynamic methodologies as opposed to standard passive 'tincturing' methodologies that are better suited to alcohol's di-atomic structure. Glycerol possesses the intrinsic property of not denaturing or rendering a botanical's constituents inert. Glycerol is a stable preserving agent for botanical extracts that, when utilized in proper concentrations in an extraction solvent base, does not allow inverting or REDOX of a finished extract's constituents over several years. Both glycerol and ethanol are viable preserving agents. Glycerol is bacteriostatic in its action, and ethanol is bactericidal in its action.

VG must be the carrying agent when they do tobacco extractions. That's about as far as I want to go on the extraction process here. If anyone is interested about the tobacco extraction process, Kurt has a very informative thread at the very top of the DIY explaining how to do it.

Vendors must be using the Lemon Juice and or Vinegar to lower the PH of their juices, and not necessarily as a preservative. PG and VG are already preservatives and they make up the great majority of juice ingredients, I don't see why you would need to add more preservatives. What do you guys think?

Pete
 
This thread is EXACTLY the type of information I was hoping to learn when it comes to DIY. The flavors I have been making have all just seemed to be a ghost of what's available in commercial juices, even when following DIY recipes exactly. I just knew that there were some tricks out there being closely guarded.

I've also found that I appear to have about 220 grams of citric acid from when I used to make homemade mozzarella. Now I just have to find out how to mix it!

The bag of citric is a couple years old...I wonder if it degrades over time. It's been kept in a foil or mylar bag in a coolish dark place...
 
Citric Acid Profile The citric is still okay.

Interesting, thanks! Now...any suggestions as to how to make a liquid with it? Or would I use it the same as EM crystals?

If a solution, distilled water or PGA? At what concentration?

I think I saw a thread around here about its use, so I'll continue to look, but if someone already knows, I'd appreciate it.
 

zoiDman

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Interesting, thanks! Now...any suggestions as to how to make a liquid with it? Or would I use it the same as EM crystals?

If a solution, distilled water or PGA? At what concentration?

I think I saw a thread around here about its use, so I'll continue to look, but if someone already knows, I'd appreciate it.

I would suggest trying Pure PG instead of PGA or H2O
 

Str8V8ping

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I found this on a site selling citric acid powder for wine making .Not sure if it helps much .

About 3.5 grams per gallon will increase acidity by about 0.1% and decrease pH by 0.1. 2 OZ

Also found this
Why Citric Acid, And Why Only Sometimes? - Vapor Talk E Cig Forum

Heres a list i found of stuff commonly used in ejuice

E-CIG Propylene Glycol
Vegetable Glycerin
Nicotine
Tobacco essence
Organic acid
Anti-oxidation agent
Butyl valerate
Isopentyl hexonate
Lauryl laurate
Benzyl benzoate
Methyl octynicate
Ethyl heptylate
Hexyl hexanoate
Geranyl butyrate
Menthol
Citric acid
Water
Alcohol

Heres another good find . It citric acid sold by a ecig vendor .
http://tomsvapor.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=753

They also sell caffine and Malic acid for ejuice making
http://tomsvapor.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4_26_94
 
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pinellaspete

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Okay...

I bought some Caramel Color Powder. I purchased it in powder form because I coudn't find it in liquid form. I will have to mix it into PG myself, probably like we do with Ethyl Maltol.

Here's the link to the product:

Caramel Color Powder

It cost $3.29 to purchase 4.6oz. of the powder plus $5.99!!!! to ship it.

I'll let you know how it works when it arrives.

Pete
 
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