Vinegar?

[Scubabatdan]

Haha . Ok heres a small test i did . 5ml of unflavored PG and tart and sour . The PH did not start changing until i had 3 drops of tart and sour in there .

PG started at 7ph
-3 drops still around 7
-Every other drop after that lowered it a slight bit .
-It took 6 drops to reach a PH of 6
-AT 6 drops there wasnt really any taste of the tart and sour when vaping it . If anything maybe the smallest hint of like a tea taste .

Just a little test . The last few days i havent had much time to play with stuff . I will be doing more when i get the chance .

Interesting, I have the same tart and sour from loranns. The directions says 1tsp to a 1lb batch to enhance flavor. 1tbsp to 1lb batch to create sour flavor. I did a drop test on the tart and sour bottle and 20 drops equals 1 ml.

I did weigh a 16oz bottle of ejuice (taking in the weight of the bottle) and is was 1lb 2 oz
So if there are 96 tsp in 16 fluid ounces (473ml)
Then,
1/96 = 0.010417 times 10ml = 0.10416ml times 20 drops =2.08333 drops of tart and sour to enhance flavor
2.08333 times 3 (a tbsp) = 6.25 drops to make it sour. Since you used a 5ml bottle for your tests, that makes it twice the number of drops (12.5) at the "make it sour level" to lower the Ph to 6.

Of cousre we are vaping and not tasting so I would expect it to be a little more.

Pinellaspete reported 4 drops per 5ml was the winner with his wife using lemon juice/vinegar, and 8 was to much.

Did you happen to do a PH test on the tart and sour before hand to determine its PH level? It would be interesting to see the PH differance between the lemon/vinegar pete used and the tart an sour from loranns.
Cant wait for my PH strips to get here!

Side note* I did weigh 1/2 tsp of salt and it weighed 3 grams, need to order some malic acid and do the same.
Dan

 

[Str8V8ping]

Interesting, I have the same tart and sour from loranns. The directions says 1tsp to a 1lb batch to enhance flavor. 1tbsp to 1lb batch to create sour flavor. I did a drop test on the tart and sour bottle and 20 drops equals 1 ml.

I did weigh a 16oz bottle of ejuice (taking in the weight of the bottle) and is was 1lb 2 oz
So if there are 96 tsp in 16 fluid ounces (473ml)
Then,
1/96 = 0.010417 times 10ml = 0.10416ml times 20 drops =2.08333 drops of tart and sour to enhance flavor
2.08333 times 3 (a tbsp) = 6.25 drops to make it sour. Since you used a 5ml bottle for your tests, that makes it twice the number of drops (12.5) at the "make it sour level" to lower the Ph to 6.

Of cousre we are vaping and not tasting so I would expect it to be a little more.

Pinellaspete reported 4 drops per 5ml was the winner with his wife using lemon juice/vinegar, and 8 was to much.

Did you happen to do a PH test on the tart and sour before hand to determine its PH level? It would be interesting to see the PH differance between the lemon/vinegar pete used and the tart an sour from loranns.
Cant wait for my PH strips to get here!

Side note* I did weigh 1/2 tsp of salt and it weighed 3 grams, need to order some malic acid and do the same.
Dan

You missed my other post im guessing . The 6 drops was determined by testing the PH not by vaping . I have always been using 3 drops of tart and sour in my juice before the PH test and have always used 3 drops per 5ml of lemon juice .Usually more than that the lemon taste would start coming out . Tart and sour by itself has a PH of slightly under 3 and the lemon juice we have been using is also a PH of 3 . I have always found the tart and sour to work better at enhancing the flavor im guessing because tart and sour contains malic acid which has better overall taste perception than just citric alone . Im not sure we really need to reach a PH of 6 in our juices for enhancment imo . All my favorite vendor juices are a Ph of 7 and they are SUPER RICH in taste (Msts).You may be able to get a more accurate reading with your PH strips so let us know your findings as well . I think your PH strip said they were accurate to .1 correct ? The ones i have only are accurate to 1 so i can only guess where its at between 6 and 7 . Im thinking the reason why i may have got a reading of needing 6 drops to get to a PH of 6 is because the PG may work as a buffer .If using water i would probably need half the amount of tart and sour . I gotta test that out .

Previous post
PG = PH 7
Apple cider vinegar and white Vinegar = PH 4
Lemon juice (LEMON shaped bottle) = PH 3
36mg GP nic base = PH 9 !(tested both PG and VG base with same results)
Sucrulose = PH 5
PGA = PH 6
TAP and Distilled water was a very blotchy reading with spots ranging from 5-7 (mainly 7)
EM - PH = 7
Tart and sour PH = 2-3
2 Vendors Bakery ejuice PH=8 and PH 7 on the other
VG PH= 7
Saliva =7 (varies per person)
EVW tobacco RY4 PH7

 

[bluegrasslover]

I went to a local brew shop today and picked up some citric acid and an acid blend which has Citric Acid, Malic Acid and Tartaric Acid. I was hoping to get a citric and malic but they had no malic. Can't wait to try this!

 

[Scubabatdan]

You missed my other post im guessing . The 6 drops was determined by testing the PH not by vaping . I have always been using 3 drops of tart and sour in my juice before the PH test and have always used 3 drops per 5ml of lemon juice .Usually more than that the lemon taste would start coming out . Tart and sour by itself has a PH of slightly under 3 and the lemon juice we have been using is also a PH of 3 . I have always found the tart and sour to work better at enhancing the flavor im guessing because tart and sour contains malic acid which has better overall taste perception than just citric alone . Im not sure we really need to reach a PH of 6 in our juices for enhancment imo . All my favorite vendor juices are a Ph of 7 and they are SUPER RICH in taste (Msts).You may be able to get a more accurate reading with your PH strips so let us know your findings as well . I think your PH strip said they were accurate to .1 correct ? The ones i have only are accurate to 1 so i can only guess where its at between 6 and 7 . Im thinking the reason why i may have got a reading of needing 6 drops to get to a PH of 6 is because the PG may work as a buffer .If using water i would probably need half the amount of tart and sour . I gotta test that out .

Previous post
PG = PH 7
Apple cider vinegar and white Vinegar = PH 4
Lemon juice (LEMON shaped bottle) = PH 3
36mg GP nic base = PH 9 !(tested both PG and VG base with same results)
Sucrulose = PH 5
PGA = PH 6
TAP and Distilled water was a very blotchy reading with spots ranging from 5-7 (mainly 7)
EM - PH = 7
Tart and sour PH = 2-3
2 Vendors Bakery ejuice PH=8 and PH 7 on the other
VG PH= 7
Saliva =7 (varies per person)
EVW tobacco RY4 PH7

Yep, missed that post. I got my strips in today, and no I wish it were by the .1, unfortunantly I am in the same boat as you every 1 increment. Here is the ones I did today:

Will try and get some more done today.
Dan

 

[Iffy]

Will try and get some more done today.

SUPER JOB!

Hopefully this will aid you joose sleuths out dere... and this lab rat will benefit.

 

[Scubabatdan]

Ok up next is 5ml of my ejuice, and the 1 drop of Tart and sour through 4 drops tart and sour I added 1 drop every test strip. In between drops I shook the bottle for 1 minute to ensure the T&S was mixed thouroughly.

Dan

 

[Str8V8ping]

SUPER JOB!

Hopefully this will aid you joose sleuths out dere... and this lab rat will benefit.

LOL . I dont get a SUper job huh j/k

 

[Str8V8ping]

Ok up next is 5ml of my ejuice, and the 1 drop of Tart and sour through 4 drops tart and sour I added 1 drop every test strip. In between drops I shook the bottle for 1 minute to ensure the T&S was mixed thouroughly.

Dan

Seems we got the same readings on everything but the tart and sour test . I wonder if its possible i got a bad batch of tart and sour . Mine was no where near changing PH that quickly . Only difference in testing is i used 5ml of unflavored PG and you used Ejuice . I dont see why that should change the results though unless the nic causes a chemical reaction with the citric/malic . The amount of change in your test is what i was hoping for . I also shook the bottle with each drop of tart and sour and used seperate test strips . I like your strips a lot better than mine though . The white strip is much easier to read then my yellow strips .

Iv tried about 10 vendors ejuices now and i always get a reading of about 7 so im thinking not many vendors are using acids .

 

[Scubabatdan]

Seems we got the same readings on everything but the tart and sour test . I wonder if its possible i got a bad batch of tart and sour . Mine was no where near changing PH that quickly . Only difference in testing is i used 5ml of unflavored PG and you used Ejuice . I dont see why that should change the results though unless the nic causes a chemical reaction with the citric/malic . The amount of change in your test is what i was hoping for . I also shook the bottle with each drop of tart and sour and used seperate test strips . I like your strips a lot better than mine though . The white strip is much easier to read then my yellow strips .

Iv tried about 10 vendors ejuices now and i always get a reading of about 7 so im thinking not many vendors are using acids .

I would try your T&S with a actual ejuice and see if there is a differance. The juice I was using it on was 12mg nic juice.
It is interesting that the Dekang juice is about 6-6.5 All the other vendors so far have been right at 7.
Dan

 

[Str8V8ping]

I would try your T&S with a actual ejuice and see if there is a differance. The juice I was using it on was 12mg nic juice.
It is interesting that the Dekang juice is about 6-6.5 All the other vendors so far have been right at 7.
Dan

Ill try it with a ejuice when i get a chance and see if i get different results . That is interesting with the Dekang . What type of juice was the Dekang in your test ? Iv been trying mostly high quality juices like msts,BWB,BBounty

 

[Scubabatdan]

Ill try it with a ejuice when i get a chance and see if i get different results . That is interesting with the Dekang . What type of juice was the Dekang in your test ? Iv been trying mostly high quality juices like msts,BWB,BBounty

It was Vanilla Chill 12mg
Dan

 

[Iffy]

LOL . I dont get a SUper job huh j/k

That was a "SUPER JOB" for all the vape sleuths.

But, just fer you...

 

[pinellaspete]

Okay...I received my test strips too!

I've tried most of the tests you guys have run, and for the most part can verify that I have the same test results you proved.

I know some high quality vendors are definitely using these acids in their juice. They just must not be using them to adjust the pH by much. I tested a few quality juices I have on hand and they checked in at solid 7's. I checked another vendors juice that changes color and loses flavor at a pretty fast rate and it checked in at a solid 8 perhaps leaning towards 9.

I checked one of the tobacco juices I mixed on 1/24/2012 using 2 drops of apple cider vinegar and it checked in a solid 7 leaning towards 6.

Perhaps we don't need to adjust pH much below 7? We already know that the chances of bugs growing in our juices are slim to none because PG and nicotine are both considered germicides.

I do know this though:

A few drops of these acids in your mix greatly enhances flavor and virtually stops the juice from changing color. One of the quality juices I tested for pH, when I first bought and received it about 3 months ago, had a distinct taste of vinegar at first, but the vinegar taste faded away after the first week. That juice is still almost the same color as when I purchased it. (That's kind of when I started to think about these acids. My juices were fading badly and I was desperately looking for a solution.)

That will be my next test. A side by side comparison of 2 identical FA tobacco mixes. I will mix them the same but in one I will add 2 drops of ACV per 5ml. I was thinking of using FA Desert Ship. Does anyone else have experience with that juice turning that funky orange color that I did? Anybody know of a FA tobacco that really turns colors as it ages?

Dan, have you tried vinegar in a tobacco mix yet? What were your results?

Pete

 

[res125]

I tried some white vinegar in my DIY tobacco mix. I used 2 drops in a 5ml bottle and steeped it in some hot water for about an hour. Filled my clearomizer with some and I could taste a hint of the vinegar. Anyways I let the bottle sit overnight with the cap off and tried again, this time I didn't taste the vinegar and my tobacco mix tasted different. I'm not sure if the taste is any better, but it's certainly not any worse. Would using apple cider vinegar be better?

I'm using a KR808-D1 with a 2.8ohm clearomizer.

 

[AzPlumber]

I tried some white vinegar in my DIY tobacco mix. I used 2 drops in a 5ml bottle and steeped it in some hot water for about an hour. Filled my clearomizer with some and I could taste a hint of the vinegar. Anyways I let the bottle sit overnight with the cap off and tried again, this time I didn't taste the vinegar and my tobacco mix tasted different. I'm not sure if the taste is any better, but it's certainly not any worse. Would using apple cider vinegar be better?

I'm using a KR808-D1 with a 2.8ohm clearomizer.

Give it a little more time before making a decision.

 

[GoodDog]

Where did you guys get your test strips? This is a "little" off topic LOL but...would those be the same test strips I need to test my dog's urine? I have to keep it from getting too acidic because he just had bladder stones removed and acidic urine is an indicator I need to be aware of to help prevent more. He's still smilin' though!!

 

[Scubabatdan]

Okay...I received my test strips too!

Dan, have you tried vinegar in a tobacco mix yet? What were your results?

Pete

Not yet, will try in the next day if I am not hung up in Jury duty all day!
Sorry I was working on this today....
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...who-can-convert-pipe-e-cig-2.html#post5236580
Dan

Where did you guys get your test strips? This is a "little" off topic LOL but...would those be the same test strips I need to test my dog's urine? I have to keep it from getting too acidic because he just had bladder stones removed and acidic urine is an indicator I need to be aware of to help prevent more. He's still smilin' though!!

Here is where I got mine:
Amazon.com: Micro Essential Lab 9800 pHydrion pH Range: 0.0 To 14.0, 100 pH Strips/Vial, Plastic pH Test Strips: Industrial & Scientific
Dan

 

[Lyndagayle]

Okay...I received my test strips too!

I've tried most of the tests you guys have run, and for the most part can verify that I have the same test results you proved.

I know some high quality vendors are definitely using these acids in their juice. They just must not be using them to adjust the pH by much. I tested a few quality juices I have on hand and they checked in at solid 7's. I checked another vendors juice that changes color and loses flavor at a pretty fast rate and it checked in at a solid 8 perhaps leaning towards 9.

I checked one of the tobacco juices I mixed on 1/24/2012 using 2 drops of apple cider vinegar and it checked in a solid 7 leaning towards 6.

Perhaps we don't need to adjust pH much below 7? We already know that the chances of bugs growing in our juices are slim to none because PG and nicotine are both considered germicides.

I do know this though:

A few drops of these acids in your mix greatly enhances flavor and virtually stops the juice from changing color. One of the quality juices I tested for pH, when I first bought and received it about 3 months ago, had a distinct taste of vinegar at first, but the vinegar taste faded away after the first week. That juice is still almost the same color as when I purchased it. (That's kind of when I started to think about these acids. My juices were fading badly and I was desperately looking for a solution.)

That will be my next test. A side by side comparison of 2 identical FA tobacco mixes. I will mix them the same but in one I will add 2 drops of ACV per 5ml. I was thinking of using FA Desert Ship. Does anyone else have experience with that juice turning that funky orange color that I did? Anybody know of a FA tobacco that really turns colors as it ages?

Dan, have you tried vinegar in a tobacco mix yet? What were your results?

Pete

I don't know much about FA tobaccos except for Virginia mixed with TA. Before I started using vinegar, it would turn dark green within a few days. With a few drops of ACV, it has a greenish cast but very light and clear. TPA DK Tab is one of those flavors that turns dark orange. I just dumped a bottle that I mixed back when I first started DIY. It changed pretty darn fast and continued to darken as time went on.

 

[Fernand]

FA bitter wizard is tobacco according to FA and doesnt contain vinegar

I think you misunderstood, language barrier. The guy was describing how they might affect a tobacco flavor.

In nature, living things create thousands of chemicals, and a fruit or flower's typical aroma, or a fruit's typical flavor, result from maybe a dozen main chemicals in different ratios. An expert flavorist like FA's head honcho works from a palette of hundreds of chemicals to simulate the scent and taste of familiar items, from apples, oranges to different types of tobacco. If you look at a list of core elements like PA's, you get an idea of how big that palette is.

The reason I mention all this is because some people seem to think in terms of "contamination", or "deception", as if added citric or tartaric acid or phenethyl propionate were some sort of foreign matter, when in fact the whole process of making a flavoring is to mix chemicals, which is exactly what nature did in the plant we're copying. There were some comments along the line of accusing juice vendors of playing with pH. Of course they do, it's part of flavoring something.

The other reason I'm mentioning it is because some people seem to think that something like a "Vape Wizard" or a "Magic mask" is some sort of simple trick, like maybe just caramel coloring, when from what I can determine it's a mix of flavor-elements that was arrived at over time and happens to highlight some flavors and mute others. Most DIYers have had the experience of having a nice juice lose all its flavor upon adding a drop of something else.

This thread is interesting in exploring changing pH to alter the way a juice tastes or ages. But it's not a "trick", it's part of SOP. And it's maybe worth saying that anything but small departures from around a neutral or slightly basic pH is likely to affect nicotine absorption. Nicotine as a free base is what's best absorbed, and a more acidic juice, in addition to being irritating to throat/lungs, is going to contain more e.g. Nicotine Citrate instead.

I'd be curious if anyone has detected a difference in the taste that results from adding a bit of pure Citric versus Tartaric versus Malic acids dissolved say in PG. I can't detect any difference in their own taste, just sour, but maybe they affect some flavorings differently?

These strips are very nice, easier to get accurate readings on than single color ones:
http://www.lotioncrafter.com/ph-fix-indicator-strips.html

 

[Str8V8ping]

Okay...I received my test strips too!

I've tried most of the tests you guys have run, and for the most part can verify that I have the same test results you proved.

I know some high quality vendors are definitely using these acids in their juice. They just must not be using them to adjust the pH by much. I tested a few quality juices I have on hand and they checked in at solid 7's. I checked another vendors juice that changes color and loses flavor at a pretty fast rate and it checked in at a solid 8 perhaps leaning towards 9.

I checked one of the tobacco juices I mixed on 1/24/2012 using 2 drops of apple cider vinegar and it checked in a solid 7 leaning towards 6.

Perhaps we don't need to adjust pH much below 7? We already know that the chances of bugs growing in our juices are slim to none because PG and nicotine are both considered germicides.

I do know this though:

A few drops of these acids in your mix greatly enhances flavor and virtually stops the juice from changing color. One of the quality juices I tested for pH, when I first bought and received it about 3 months ago, had a distinct taste of vinegar at first, but the vinegar taste faded away after the first week. That juice is still almost the same color as when I purchased it. (That's kind of when I started to think about these acids. My juices were fading badly and I was desperately looking for a solution.)

That will be my next test. A side by side comparison of 2 identical FA tobacco mixes. I will mix them the same but in one I will add 2 drops of ACV per 5ml. I was thinking of using FA Desert Ship. Does anyone else have experience with that juice turning that funky orange color that I did? Anybody know of a FA tobacco that really turns colors as it ages?

Dan, have you tried vinegar in a tobacco mix yet? What were your results?


Pete

One thing i have been experimenting with is if using lemon juice etc would stop a juice from changing color and my findings over about 20 different juices steeping is that it still does change color . It on average changes color about 3 days slower then without the lemon juice . After a few weeks though its just as dark as it was without it . This was on everything from bakery juices to fruits . I dont really do tobacco's . Fruits usually start out pretty clear but are all yellow/gold now . My bakery juices will usually start at a light yellow all went to orange to red to really dark red now . The acids only seem to prolong the color changing properties .

Where did you guys get your test strips? This is a "little" off topic LOL but...would those be the same test strips I need to test my dog's urine? I have to keep it from getting too acidic because he just had bladder stones removed and acidic urine is an indicator I need to be aware of to help prevent more. He's still smilin' though!!

I got mine on ebay for about 3.00 shipped. The white ones look to be a bit easier to read .